Ranking MU Coaches - Kevin O'Neil to Shaka Smart

[NCMUFan]

Shaka has taken some criticism this past season.
But has any Scooper done an objective comparison of MU Coaches from Kevin O'Neill to Shaka?
Season W-L
NCAA Appearances & Advances
If already done, sorry for rehashing.

[The Sultan]

We have never had discussions here comparing coaches. Interesting idea!

[Galway Eagle]

Here I'll do every portion of this thread in a quick concise way

1) we should consider where we were when the coach took over. For example O'Neil and Crean took over flaming dumpsters of fire while Deane and Buzz took over experienced pretty solid rosters featuring all time great players. What about Wojo? Ners: "RSCI top 100 recruits gah", everyone else: "took over a team graduating almost everyone important with its only key experience being Juan and Derrick"

2) Buzz had the most postseason runs, Crean had the deepest run. Buzz squandered the 3 amigos & Lazar, Crean squandered Travis after Wade left.

3) Deane's NIT finals wasn't a success it was a failure and the 4 seed and the other tournament appearance was in spite of his coaching.

4) Wojo did/didn't inherit a disaster. He was in a tougher conference than Deane, two of his down years we were still competitive as opposed to the end of Deane.

5) we over emphasize march success both of Shakas 2 seeds show how great his peak was and was better than the 03, 12, or 13 teams.

That should cover all the talking points except what if scenarios regarding Travis, Dom James, & Kolek injuries.

[TallTitan34]

We have never had discussions here comparing coaches. Interesting idea!

I'm saving my Warriors nickname post for May.

[The Sultan]

I'm saving my Warriors nickname post for May.

Hold on...will you be suggesting that we revert back to a previous nickname? Wow!

I guess this is the way our minds work when we don't have to worry about Marquette basketball during March Madness.

I may have to put together my thoughts on starting a football team.

[TallTitan34]

Hold on...will you be suggesting that we revert back to a previous nickname? Wow!

I guess this is the way our minds work when we don't have to worry about Marquette basketball during March Madness.

I may have to put together my thoughts on starting a football team.

I was joking.

[The Sultan]

I was joking.

So was I

[Scoop Snoop]

Here I'll do every portion of this thread in a quick concise way

1) we should consider where we were when the coach took over. For example O'Neil and Crean took over flaming dumpsters of fire while Deane and Buzz took over experienced pretty solid rosters featuring all time great players. What about Wojo? Ners: "RSCI top 100 recruits gah", everyone else: "took over a team graduating almost everyone important with its only key experience being Juan and Derrick"

2) Buzz had the most postseason runs, Crean had the deepest run. Buzz squandered the 3 amigos & Lazar, Crean squandered Travis after Wade left.

3) Deane's NIT finals wasn't a success it was a failure and the 4 seed and the other tournament appearance was in spite of his coaching.

4) Wojo did/didn't inherit a disaster. He was in a tougher conference than Deane, two of his down years we were still competitive as opposed to the end of Deane.

5) we over emphasize march success both of Shakas 2 seeds show how great his peak was and was better than the 03, 12, or 13 teams.

That should cover all the talking points except what if scenarios regarding Travis, Dom James, & Kolek injuries.

You need a hobby.

[Galway Eagle]

You need a hobby.

I play in a bocce league on Mondays. But I have 2 girls under 2, my hobby is diapers and tea parties.

[Judge Smails]

Crean
Shaka
O'Neil
Buzz
Wojo
Deane

[MU82]

Wojo #1, obviously.

After that, take your pick.

[Scoop Snoop]

I play in a bocce league on Mondays. But I have 2 girls under 2, my hobby is diapers and tea parties.

  Enjoy your hobbies while they last-even the diaper changing, although I am sure you prefer the tea parties. Before you know it, they will want you to buy them cars.

[Jay Bee]

A Scoop tradition. Thread titles where the poster can't spell names correctly. Good grief.

[Badgerhater]

" 2) Buzz squandered the 3 amigos & Lazar."

Buzz coached the Three Amigos for one year and Dominic James was hurt in the UCONN game prior to the NCAAs. It was peak gut-wrenching loss that year, but not squandered.

[sailwi]

A Scoop tradition. Thread titles where the poster can't spell names correctly. Good grief.

thank God we have the grammar  police.

[Jay Bee]

thank God we have the grammar  police.

This has nothing to do with grammar. Dipsh1t police? Sure. Sound the horns.

[Billy Hoyle]

" 2) Buzz squandered the 3 amigos & Lazar."

Buzz coached the Three Amigos for one year and Dominic James was hurt in the UCONN game prior to the NCAAs. It was peak gut-wrenching loss that year, but not squandered.

Buzz blew the Mizzou game by playing an hobbled and ineffective DJ.

[Galway Eagle]

wait people say we wasted Kolek Oso & Kam with only getting a s16 and conference sweep and yet we're not going to say the same about the Amigos & Lazar? In 2009 we had a Jr Lazar, Senior Wes & Jerel after Dom went down, it's hardly like Travis going down in 2005 leaving a pretty empty cupboard.

Also let's not forget we had Losses to a bad Dayton team and a bad USF team with Dom, we weren't consistently playing to what that team should've been.

[BLWarrior91]

KO's legacy is huge.  He took a program that was dying and headed for being labeled a "mid-major" or worse and brought it back to prominence his last two years. That game against Kentucky in 94 is still one of my all time MU favorites.  It's too bad it KO's last win at MU and the last ever win under the name Warriors.

I'd say Crean was the best with a FF and then three straight tourneys in a loaded Big East.  Buzz inherited a powerhouse.  Wojo nearly destroyed it; Shaka brought it back. 

[BM1090]

wait people say we wasted Kolek Oso & Kam with only getting a s16 and conference sweep and yet we're not going to say the same about the Amigos & Lazar? In 2009 we had a Jr Lazar, Senior Wes & Jerel after Dom went down, it's hardly like Travis going down in 2005 leaving a pretty empty cupboard.

Also let's not forget we had Losses to a bad Dayton team and a bad USF team with Dom, we weren't consistently playing to what that team should've been.

Agree with the first paragraph.

The second...Dayton loss was early season and that team won a game in the NCAA tournament. Went 15-3 after that until the injury. We were rolling. Almost won 2 of the next 3 against top 15 teams without DJ too.

That was an awesome team.

[JWags85]

I play in a bocce league on Mondays. But I have 2 girls under 2, my hobby is diapers and tea parties.

Having tea parties with girls under 2?  I remember the sort of activities my 3 year old son and my 2.5 year old niece liked and/or sat still for at that age...those tea parties are for you and not them my friend.  Don't use your little girls as cover for your love of a proper English high tea as a proud Irishman 

wait people say we wasted Kolek Oso & Kam with only getting a s16 and conference sweep and yet we're not going to say the same about the Amigos & Lazar? In 2009 we had a Jr Lazar, Senior Wes & Jerel after Dom went down, it's hardly like Travis going down in 2005 leaving a pretty empty cupboard.

Who said we wasted Kolek Oso and Kam?  I was far more disappointed about 23/24 but that was still the first second weekend appearance in a decade and a loss to the magical streak team of that tournament that made a FF despite not being that good.  Just like somehow getting in the path of that random destiny branded South Carolina team.

But 22/23? Beyond the conference sweep, in retrospect its blatantly and glaringly obvious that Kolek was hurt/hindered far more than anybody realized/anticipated.  He was averaging 19/5/9 on 50/45/76 shooting splits over his last 5 entering the NCAAs (and those were including against UConn, Xavier, and 2 against a SJ team that was poorly coached but still loaded with athletic talent.)  Then he leaves midway through the Vermont game and then comes out against MSU and goes 2/8 with only 4 assists and 6 TOs, when he had 11 TOs in those previous 5 games combined?  Yea, that wasn't just a guy having an off night in a big moment.  Cause he excelled in the biggest moments in the BE tournament and there was a reason he was BE POY. 

You can need to blame Shaka for his game plan or that Izzo out coached him, but losing a big chunk of the effectiveness of your AA/BE POY PG on short notice against one of the best March coaches in history (he has more E8/FF appearances than first round loses in the last 20 years) is a substantial asterisk.

[Hards Alumni]

It's a bit revisionist to say Wojo nearly destroyed the program.  Sure he was not a great coach, but let's calm down here lol.

[The Sultan]

It's a bit revisionist to say Wojo nearly destroyed the program.  Sure he was not a great coach, but let's calm down here lol.

Right. Now Bob Dukiet on the other hand...

[Scoop Snoop]

It's a bit revisionist to say Wojo nearly destroyed the program.  Sure he was not a great coach, but let's calm down here lol.

Agree. But you missed a chance to go "full Muggsy" with your "calm down".

CALM DOWN!!! See? Isn't that better?

[The Equalizer]

Having tea parties with girls under 2?  I remember the sort of activities my 3 year old son and my 2.5 year old niece liked and/or sat still for at that age...those tea parties are for you and not them my friend.  Don't use your little girls as cover for your love of a proper English high tea as a proud Irishman 

Who said we wasted Kolek Oso and Kam?  I was far more disappointed about 23/24 but that was still the first second weekend appearance in a decade and a loss to the magical streak team of that tournament that made a FF despite not being that good.  Just like somehow getting in the path of that random destiny branded South Carolina team.

But 22/23? Beyond the conference sweep, in retrospect its blatantly and glaringly obvious that Kolek was hurt/hindered far more than anybody realized/anticipated.  He was averaging 19/5/9 on 50/45/76 shooting splits over his last 5 entering the NCAAs (and those were including against UConn, Xavier, and 2 against a SJ team that was poorly coached but still loaded with athletic talent.)  Then he leaves midway through the Vermont game and then comes out against MSU and goes 2/8 with only 4 assists and 6 TOs, when he had 11 TOs in those previous 5 games combined?  Yea, that wasn't just a guy having an off night in a big moment.  Cause he excelled in the biggest moments in the BE tournament and there was a reason he was BE POY. 

You can need to blame Shaka for his game plan or that Izzo out coached him, but losing a big chunk of the effectiveness of your AA/BE POY PG on short notice against one of the best March coaches in history (he has more E8/FF appearances than first round loses in the last 20 years) is a substantial asterisk.

To prepare for what could have been a Championship run, Shaka bolstered his lineup by bringing in Tre Norman, Zaide Lowery, and Al Amadou--none of whom would have been expected to contribute in their first year (and as it turned out, aren't contributing in their junior year).  And I believe he banked a scholarship that season as well.

That roster screamed for a couple of experienced senior role players to come in both to replace OMax and add depth for a deep NCAA run.