Shaka’s mess

[wadesworld]

What's odd is that Rothstein tweeted the exact same thing about Hamilton the year before as well. "Practice player" is a real thing.

Maybe we just don't take what people are telling John Rothstein as Gospel.  He was trying to interview Shaka after one of the games Kolek didn't play in late in the 2023-2024 season and Shaka opened it up by saying, "Are you going to ask me if Kolek will be playing like you do every morning?"  Clearly Shaka isn't giving John Rothstein real inside information on our program.

[WhiteTrash]

Maybe we just don't take what people are telling John Rothstein as Gospel.  He was trying to interview Shaka after one of the games Kolek didn't play in late in the 2023-2024 season and Shaka opened it up by saying, "Are you going to ask me if Kolek will be playing like you do every morning?"  Clearly Shaka isn't giving John Rothstein real inside information on our program.

Besides flying in the face of your assertion that Shaka was using the media to build up the confidence of his own players, if what you say is true, then Rothstein isn't the issue, Shaka is by not giving truthful answers. Rothstein would be the bad actor if he twisted Shaka's words.

[Hards Alumni]

Guyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys, Rothstein doesn't have to talk to the head coach to get a quote like that.

[Uncle Rico]

Besides flying in the face of your assertion that Shaka was using the media to build up the confidence of his own players, if what you say is true, then Rothstein isn't the issue, Shaka is by not giving truthful answers. Rothstein would be the bad actor if he twisted Shaka's words.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHWHAHAHWHAHAHWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *catches breath* BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHWHWHWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[panda]

And WTF was Shaka supposed to do second half of last season?  Go to the portal?  (Which is the end all be all solution for all of you hating on Shaka and our program at present.)

Though it may seem highly unlikely, could it not be possible that this year is the exact inverse of last year?  Where this team starts like crap, but finishes strong?  Last year Scoopers were riding high after Maryland, Purdue and Wisconsin last - did we see the 5 and 8 finish happening in the last 13 games of the year?  Probably not.  I'm hopeful this year could be the inverse despite the early evidence not looking good.

And, if we miss the NCAA this year, I'll still be 100% behind Shaka and the guys on the team - they are winners and will get it turned around.

Absolutely horrendous roster construction last year/this year led to zero flexibility on helping improve the roster. Carrying Amadou, Clark and Hamilton last year was criminal and a disservice to the talent we carried last year.

This year more of the same

[79Warrior]

The money was there.... For a one time payoff, and even that took a couple years of wading through wojos crap.

This is now a pay that amount every year thing.

Correct. No idea who the guy is that claims the "money is there" but he is absolutely incorrect. We have resources for sure, but the dude has no idea what the budget actually is.

[Billy Hoyle]

Correct. No idea who the guy is that claims the "money is there" but he is absolutely incorrect. We have resources for sure, but the dude has no idea what the budget actually is.

we do have an advantage when it comes to what we can provide to players via revenue share over P4 schools who see 75% of the amount allocated to football.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I mean neither did Shaka. Shakas had two years of high level success, two years of acceptable standard. Even Wojo had that (the couple years of acceptable standard not high level success) 

That gets into semantics.  He made the tourney 4 years in a row with 2 protected seeds.  I think you continue to do that and the tourney success will come. 

Wojo made the tourney twice in 7 years without a single win.  He was 59-68 in conference. 

It's completely fair to be concerned about this season and the trajectory for next season as well but there's not even a comparison to be made here, IMO.

[WhiteTrash]

Correct. No idea who the guy is that claims the "money is there" but he is absolutely incorrect. We have resources for sure, but the dude has no idea what the budget actually is.

Seriously, I'm confused.
The money is not there, but "we have resources for sure." 
"The dude has no idea what the budget is", but you do? 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

No, Wojo had 4-1/2 years of progressive escalating success. Year one bad. Year two better but not good enough. Year three right side of the bubble. Year four wrong side of the bubble, but clear defensive flaws. Year five, top-10 team and had 3 chances to clinch the Big East but the wheels fell off.

At the end of year five, even his supporters (myself included) were ready to jump ship, but acknowledged you couldn't fire a guy coming off a 5-seed. And then we had a pandemic.

Shaka escalated faster and reached higher heights, but like Wojo saw a downturn in success after losing his first two golden geese. Wojo went from a 5 to a 9 losing the Hausers, Shaka went from a 2 to a 7 losing TK/Oso. The year after, Wojo lost Markus and had a losing record. Shaka lost Kam and we have this.

Shaka is a better coach & did far more than Wojo did, but if you compare 2017-21 and 2022-present, the escalation and decline has some parallels but at different levels.

Agree to disagree on the comparison. 

[The Equalizer]

No, Wojo had 4-1/2 years of progressive escalating success. Year one bad. Year two better but not good enough. Year three right side of the bubble. Year four wrong side of the bubble, but clear defensive flaws. Year five, top-10 team and had 3 chances to clinch the Big East but the wheels fell off.

At the end of year five, even his supporters (myself included) were ready to jump ship, but acknowledged you couldn't fire a guy coming off a 5-seed. And then we had a pandemic.

Shaka escalated faster and reached higher heights, but like Wojo saw a downturn in success after losing his first two golden geese. Wojo went from a 5 to a 9 losing the Hausers, Shaka went from a 2 to a 7 losing TK/Oso. The year after, Wojo lost Markus and had a losing record. Shaka lost Kam and we have this.

Shaka is a better coach & did far more than Wojo did, but if you compare 2017-21 and 2022-present, the escalation and decline has some parallels but at different levels.

You have to give Wojo credit for finding those lower rated players (ranked 80ish through 120ish) who would eventually excel.  He found #120 Justin Lewis and #81 Oso Ighadoro and #115 Stevie Mitchell and #107 Kam Jones--all who had a career to the better side of their rank.

It looks like Shaka is trying to recruit from the same 80ish to 150ish pool.  The problem is not enough of his recruits (outside of Chase Ross) are on the same trajectory as Lewis/Oso/Kam/Stevie.

And by the end, Wojo realized he needed some higher-rated players in the mix--hence Joey Hauser, Dawson Garcia, DJ Carton, Jonas Aidoo. Shaka is avoiding these type of players completely.

Absolutely horrendous roster construction last year/this year led to zero flexibility on helping improve the roster. Carrying Amadou, Clark and Hamilton last year was criminal and a disservice to the talent we carried last year.

At least we know his strategy--bring in a bunch of guys at the bottom end of the top 100 and beyond--SOME of them have to develop like Oso or Kam.  Right?  Right?  They can't all track to the Amadou/Itejere/Emarion Ellis side of the curve.

[Hards Alumni]

You have to give Wojo credit for finding those lower rated players (ranked 80ish through 120ish) who would eventually excel.  He found #120 Justin Lewis and #81 Oso Ighadoro and #115 Stevie Mitchell and #107 Kam Jones--all who had a career to the better side of their rank.

It looks like Shaka is trying to recruit from the same 80ish to 150ish pool.  The problem is not enough of his recruits (outside of Chase Ross) are on the same trajectory as Lewis/Oso/Kam/Stevie.

And by the end, Wojo realized he needed some higher-rated players in the mix--hence Joey Hauser, Dawson Garcia, DJ Carton, Jonas Aidoo. Shaka is avoiding these type of players completely.

At least we know his strategy--bring in a bunch of guys at the bottom end of the top 100 and beyond--SOME of them have to develop like Oso or Kam.  Right?  Right?  They can't all track to the Amadou/Itejere/Emarion Ellis side of the curve.

No, this is revisionist.  We were right there at the end on Kon Kneuppel.  To say he isn't trying to get higher guys is just flatly wrong.  A lot of those younger guys are looking to get a big bag now as well.

[Nukem2]

No, this is revisionist.  We were right there at the end on Kon Kneuppel.  To say he isn't trying to get higher guys is just flatly wrong.  A lot of those younger guys are looking to get a big bag now as well.

No, this is revisionist.  We were right there at the end on Kon Kneuppel.  To say he isn't trying to get higher guys is just flatly wrong.  A lot of those younger guys are looking to get a big bag now as well.

Yes, Shaka went hard after Kon. But, Kon was local and he really is a kind of guy that Shaka wants also. Kind of an exception here.

[The Sultan]

No, this is revisionist.  We were right there at the end on Kon Kneuppel.  To say he isn't trying to get higher guys is just flatly wrong.  A lot of those younger guys are looking to get a big bag now as well.

The Equalizer has a deal for drawing wild conclusions from small amounts of data.

[Hards Alumni]

Yes, Shaka went hard after Kon. But, Kon was local and he really is a kind of guy that Shaka wants also. Kind of an exception here.

Shaka is avoiding these type of players completely.

Oh, okay, then he's welcome to revise what he said.  Additionally, Kon is not the only one.

[Galway Eagle]

You have to give Wojo credit for finding those lower rated players (ranked 80ish through 120ish) who would eventually excel.  He found #120 Justin Lewis and #81 Oso Ighadoro and #115 Stevie Mitchell and #107 Kam Jones--all who had a career to the better side of their rank.

It looks like Shaka is trying to recruit from the same 80ish to 150ish pool.  The problem is not enough of his recruits (outside of Chase Ross) are on the same trajectory as Lewis/Oso/Kam/Stevie.

And by the end, Wojo realized he needed some higher-rated players in the mix--hence Joey Hauser, Dawson Garcia, DJ Carton, Jonas Aidoo. Shaka is avoiding these type of players completely.

At least we know his strategy--bring in a bunch of guys at the bottom end of the top 100 and beyond--SOME of them have to develop like Oso or Kam.  Right?  Right?  They can't all track to the Amadou/Itejere/Emarion Ellis side of the curve.

I'm not saying you're wrong but some of those guys you picked their lowest rankings

[wadesworld]

Yes, Shaka went hard after Kon. But, Kon was local and he really is a kind of guy that Shaka wants also. Kind of an exception here.

JJ Andrews, Tarris Bouie, Carey Booth, JP Estrella, Devin Royal, Kon Knueppel, Nyk Lewis, Jamarion Bateman, Micah Gordon are all top 50 recruits that have taken official visits to Marquette during Shaka's time here.  Dooney Johnson, Cam Ward, Devin Cleveland, Antonio Pemberton, Donovan Davis, Jaxson Davis are, depending where you look, top 50 recruits that have all been offered and shown legitimate interest.

2027 is a huge year for Shaka.  I know recruiting rankings don't guarantee a kid's success (or lack thereof), but I can take 2 down years if Shaka is starting to up the talent level in the program with freshman classes.  The class of 2026 is a good start.  2027 needs to be better, or Shaka needs to start building the roster in more modern ways.  If the class has 3 of Cleveland, Pemberton, Jaxson Davis, Donovan Davis, and Micah Gordon I can be patient.  If Jack Kohnen is the highlight of the class, then the talent isn't really improving a ton.

[wisblue]

If posters are going to use Shaka's first year as evidence that he was willing to use the portal, I think we need a simple fact check on what the MU roster would have looked like without the transfers.

The actual classes of some of the players might be a year off because of redshirts, but after Wojo left the only returning platers from MU's 2020-3021 team were Oso (soph who barely plated as freshman), Justin Lewis (Soph), and Greg Elliot ( a senior who, if I recall, was not certain to return)

Then there were the four incoming freshmen: Kam Jones. Mitchell, Joplin, and Ellis.

Nobody could argue with a straight face that this 7 man team would have been remotely competitive.

To add some experience and balance to the roster he added Morsell and Kwath as seniors and OMax and Kolek as sophs,

IMHO making those moves is not inconsistent with a philosophy of recruiting and developing players within the program while keeping a balance of older players and younger ones. They were necessary to field a competitive team.

[The Sultan]

If posters are going to use Shaka's first year as evidence that he was willing to use the portal, I think we need a simple fact check on what the MU roster would have looked like without the transfers.

The actual classes of some of the players might be a year off because of redshirts, but after Wojo left the only returning platers from MU's 2020-3021 team were Oso (soph who barely plated as freshman), Justin Lewis (Soph), and Greg Elliot ( a senior who, if I recall, was not certain to return)

Then there were the four incoming freshmen: Kam Jones. Mitchell, Joplin, and Ellis.

Nobody could argue with a straight face that this 7 man team would have been remotely competitive.

To add some experience and balance to the roster he added Morsell and Kwath as seniors and OMax and Kolek as sophs,

IMHO making those moves is not inconsistent with a philosophy of recruiting and developing players within the program while keeping a balance of older players and younger ones. They were necessary to field a competitive team.

Kinda like this one?

[Class71]

.

You sound like its the end of the world. The sky is falling. For God's sake calm down. Let this team develop. Shaka will coach and mold them into a competitive group. Hang in there.

Sounds like we should respect the process but to date Shaka agrees to date it is not working this year. He is relying on past success to give him some cover. He blames lack of confidence for poor shooting. However, some of the bad shooters have been around 2-2+ years and shooting is just one of the problems. What is the magic sauce to  improve shooting, defense, passing and avoid one-on-one offense? If he pulls this off he will become one of the all time basketball magicians. If he does not he should accept failure and learn from his mistakes. He can still can be a great coach but only if he adjusts to overcome the problems. If he doubles down for much longer it will be a very long year for the team, Marquette fans and for him and his coaching staff.

[wisblue]

Kinda like this one?

At least this team has bodies to plug in if there are injuries or foul trouble.

[Jay Bee]

we do have an advantage when it comes to what we can provide to players via revenue share over P4 schools who see 75% of the amount allocated to football.

#FakeNews #Lies

[The Equalizer]

I'm not saying you're wrong but some of those guys you picked their lowest rankings

I used 247 consistently for all of them. I wasn't cherry picking different services.

[Billy Hoyle]

#FakeNews #Lies

So you're saying we have less for hoops than VCU, which committed $4.5 million for revenue share, meaning men's hoops players are getting around $400k each from the school?

[onepost]

JJ Andrews, Tarris Bouie, Carey Booth, JP Estrella, Devin Royal, Kon Knueppel, Nyk Lewis, Jamarion Bateman, Micah Gordon are all top 50 recruits that have taken official visits to Marquette during Shaka's time here.  Dooney Johnson, Cam Ward, Devin Cleveland, Antonio Pemberton, Donovan Davis, Jaxson Davis are, depending where you look, top 50 recruits that have all been offered and shown legitimate interest.

2027 is a huge year for Shaka.  I know recruiting rankings don't guarantee a kid's success (or lack thereof), but I can take 2 down years if Shaka is starting to up the talent level in the program with freshman classes.  The class of 2026 is a good start.  2027 needs to be better, or Shaka needs to start building the roster in more modern ways.  If the class has 3 of Cleveland, Pemberton, Jaxson Davis, Donovan Davis, and Micah Gordon I can be patient.  If Jack Kohnen is the highlight of the class, then the talent isn't really improving a ton.

In general, I of course agree with your point and have said the same exact thing.
But what makes you think 2026 was "a good start"?  We have one player that projects to be a true difference maker, and two guys that SCREAM Tre Norman and Caedin Hamilton-esque talents.

Ethan Johnston was terrible this past summer, really from the time he committed onward.  To me, he looks like a longer Tre Norman.  And Nash Walker is so bad at everything but shooting that Shaka's spinniest spin on his commitment was "he's bad at everything but shooting".  I would argue 2026 was much more comparable to the 2022 Chase Ross, Ben Gold, Sean Jones class than anything close to Nigel James, Adrien Stevens, Sheek Pearson, Ian Miletic, Michael Phillips class: in other words, a giant step back.

That's why losing out on Dooney Johnson was such a killer.  THAT is the level of talent Shaka needs to be bringing in every year, and the kid was a local product that the staff felt was in the best position for.  I'm as low on Marquette basketball as I was in the 2020-2021 Wojo era, and that's fucking alarming.  Only difference is Shaka is actively making life so much harder on himself: he's playing with one arm tied behind his back (no portal usage) and blind (settling for back-end top 100 kids and no-name projects no one else wanted).  He's basically the Helen Keller of college basketball.