Shaka’s mess

[wadesworld]

Was it unreasonable, after hearing months of praise from the coach, to expect Sean and Caedin to not be borderline bad?

We saw 3 games, 2 against low majors, of Sean playing his first minutes back from a major injury.  Probably wasn't going to be all conference, but I'd guess he would've been better than "borderline bad" had he stayed healthy.  Unfortunately that's not in the cards for him this year.

Caedin?  Yeah, I didn't expect him to be good.  I watched him play last year.  Shaka's fault is in relying on Caedin.

[WhiteTrash]

If you're relying on John Rothstein for your CBB information, again, more on you.

Almost as crazy as Shaka relying on him as a resource to build players confidence. 

[jfp61]

I'd guess he would've been better than "borderline bad" had he stayed healthy. 

generous

[brewcity77]

If you're relying on John Rothstein for your CBB information, again, more on you.

You do realize who is telling Rothstein to say these things, right?

[Shooter McGavin]

Perhaps,  what is needed is a huge reset on expectations.  Should we be looking at this as Shaka is in year one and not year five. RGV be dammed without the T. 

Talented players simply won't come to MU to be stuck behind Kam, Stevie, Tyler, Oso, Omax, Jopli, Ross, etc. 

Now Shaka can sell playing time, without even saying it out loud.  Recruits will know they will play immediately if they are a part of the  solution. 

Shaka is a great representative of this University.  He made things look easy with a confluence of high level players falling into his lap and a couple astute transfer pick ups. 

Maybe, now, without those original players blocking the way to playing time, Shaka hits on more players than he misses on.

TRGV!!

[WhiteTrash]

You do realize who is telling Rothstein to say these things, right?

I think Wades is in "scramble mode".

[wadesworld]

You do realize who is telling Rothstein to say these things, right?

Correct!  For a reason!  Again, use what you saw yourself last year and understand that coaches aren't always going to come out and say, "Well, we have Chase Ross and Ben Gold, and after that we don't look good at all, John!"

[wadesworld]

Dan Hurley on Isaiah Abraham:

"'Isaiah, I think we felt like we had a guy coming in on a great trajectory and he's shown up,' Hurley said. 'Shown to be better. Sometimes the players are what you thought they are, little bit worse or better than you thought you were getting. He's better,' he followed."

Abraham left after 1 semester after playing 3.7 mpg in 9 games.  Dan Hurley doesn't know how to evaluate talent, clearly.

[WhiteTrash]

Perhaps,  what is needed is a huge reset on expectations.  Should we be looking at this as Shaka is in year one and not year five. RGV be dammed without the T. 

Talented players simply won't come to MU to be stuck behind Kam, Stevie, Tyler, Oso, Omax, Jopli, Ross, etc. 

Now Shaka can sell playing time, without even saying it out loud.  Recruits will know they will play immediately if they are a part of the  solution. 

Shaka is a great representative of this University.  He made things look easy with a confluence of high level players falling into his lap and a couple astute transfer pick ups. 

Maybe, now, without those original players blocking the way to playing time, Shaka hits on more players than he misses on.

TRGV!!

So Shaka recruits great, then below par, then great, then below par? I don't hate it, but it ain't RGV.

[Billy Hoyle]

You do realize who is telling Rothstein to say these things, right?

yep, Rothstein is a shill. The WCC has him on speed dial anytime they want something positive put out. Kind of like Gary Parrish was for Buzz.

[MU82]

Correct!  For a reason!  Again, use what you saw yourself last year and understand that coaches aren't always going to come out and say, "Well, we have Chase Ross and Ben Gold, and after that we don't look good at all, John!"

There's a lot of room between "we don't look good at all, John" and "Caedin is gonna be the next Oso."

[cheebs09]

I'm learning that Secret Scrimmage results are not indicative of how good a team is.

[muwarrior69]

Does anyone think this could be Shaka's worse season? He was 11-22 his second season at Texas.

[WhiteTrash]

Dan Hurley on Isaiah Abraham:

"'Isaiah, I think we felt like we had a guy coming in on a great trajectory and he's shown up,' Hurley said. 'Shown to be better. Sometimes the players are what you thought they are, little bit worse or better than you thought you were getting. He's better,' he followed."

Abraham left after 1 semester after playing 3.7 mpg in 9 games.  Dan Hurley doesn't know how to evaluate talent, clearly.

So Hurley didn't feel good about Abraham, but thought he'd boost his confidence with his statements to the media?

I choose to believe Hurly was being honest. And like I said, no coach bats 1.000 on player evaluations.

[1SE]

Shaka's peak at MU may well turn out to have been December 20th, 2023. It's actually been pretty grim since then - I think we're like 2-9 against ranked teams in 2024 and 2025?

[WhiteTrash]

Does anyone think this could be Shaka's worse season? He was 11-22 his second season at Texas.

I highly doubt it but if you look at these results it does make it a reasonable question:

Incarnate Word @ IU 61-69
Mount St. Mary's @ Maryland 90-95/OT
UMBC @ Dayton 71-77

[CountryRoads]

I'm learning that Secret Scrimmage results are not indicative of how good a team is.

Assumed it was just a funny troll post when it was reported we gave up 110 points to Colorado, but that may have actually been true.

[Shooter McGavin]

So Shaka recruits great, then below par, then great, then below par? I don't hate it, but it ain't RGV.

Just saying it's harder to get great recruits when they will sit on the bench behind other high level players.  Definitely makes it tough. 

This is from a monetary perspective as well at a place like MU.  If they are paying Kam or Tyler $1M for example, it makes it harder to pay a really high level recruit like Kon what it takes in addition to that. 

So, as painful as it will be this year and possibly next, I am going to choose to look at this as Shaka's first year of a rebuild but from a talent deficit compared to his true first year.  This rebuild will take longer. 

[The Sultan]

If you're relying on John Rothstein for your CBB information, again, more on you.

I'm hardly relying on him for something. I'm referring to what was publicly being discussed about him prior to the season.

[mileskishnish72]

This rebuild will take longer. 

Ouch!

[WhiteTrash]

Just saying it's harder to get great recruits when they will sit on the bench behind other high level players.  Definitely makes it tough. 

This is from a monetary perspective as well at a place like MU.  If they are paying Kam or Tyler $1M for example, it makes it harder to pay a really high level recruit like Kon what it takes in addition to that. 

So, as painful as it will be this year and possibly next, I am going to choose to look at this as Shaka's first year of a rebuild but from a talent deficit compared to his true first year.  This rebuild will take longer. 

I think that is fair. I think most, if not all, believe Shaka will return the program to where people expect it. I still believe he is a great coach who made a reasonable choice to zig when others zagged regarding transfers. I trust he will adjust like other great coaches do.

As for player compensation, other professional players understand the market for players and deal with the fact that market value of some turn out to be better than they believe they are. I refuse to believe that a player like Kam would unplug if a hot recruit like Kon made more. There are countless examples across all pro sports of that situation happening. It's not ideal, but professionals deal with it. 

[1SE]

But a rebuild to what? All of Shaka's success has been predicated on keeping guys together - which has let us rack up wins early in the year. In 4 years, we've really only had one year where we were still playing well by March, and that year we bowed out to a 7 seed. Even when we had better talent, we weren't getting it done in the 2nd half of the season.

Our best wins under Shaka have been on Nov 20th, Nov 15th, and Nov 22nd.

Now, we don't even have an early season edge. So we rebuild to what? In 2 or 3 years we can get some nice scalps in November? Who cares. Shaka has 2 years to show he can get it done IN MARCH. That's looking like a pretty tall order this year.

[CountryRoads]

I'm hardly relying on him for something. I'm referring to what was publicly being discussed about him prior to the season.

What's odd is that Rothstein tweeted the exact same thing about Hamilton the year before as well. "Practice player" is a real thing.

[Biggie Clausen]

Just saying it's harder to get great recruits when they will sit on the bench behind other high level players.  Definitely makes it tough. 

This is from a monetary perspective as well at a place like MU.  If they are paying Kam or Tyler $1M for example, it makes it harder to pay a really high level recruit like Kon what it takes in addition to that. 

So, as painful as it will be this year and possibly next, I am going to choose to look at this as Shaka's first year of a rebuild but from a talent deficit compared to his true first year.  This rebuild will take longer. 

"Rebuild" is the same word people used with Wojo.  It worked for the first three or so years (too long), and then it was year 4, and we still sucked.

This isn't early 2010s baseball, where the model is to tear everything down and start over and maybe be good in 5-6 years when all your prospects develop.  In today's CBB landscape, you can plug holes through the transfer portal and reload every single year.  There is no such thing as a "rebuild" anymore.  A new coach coming into a program can have a top team in year 2 if he's any good, and for an established coach who's been at his program a while, there is no excuse for a toilet-level season that doesn't involve injuries to major rotational players.

What is being "rebuilt" right now?  Aside from Nigel James, I don't think there's a single other player on the current roster who'd be wanted by a top-25 program in next year's portal.  It's not like Ian Miletic is in low A and four years from now maybe he'll get called up in the middle of the season if he's doing well in triple A.  There are players his age on high major teams making big contributions.  If the three guys redshirting and the current young guys are supposed to be what'll save us next year, I think we're in for a rough time.

[wadesworld]

But a rebuild to what? All of Shaka's success has been predicated on keeping guys together - which has let us rack up wins early in the year. In 4 years, we've really only had one year where we were still playing well by March, and that year we bowed out to a 7 seed. Even when we had better talent, we weren't getting it done in the 2nd half of the season.

Our best wins under Shaka have been on Nov 20th, Nov 15th, and Nov 22nd.

Now, we don't even have an early season edge. So we rebuild to what? In 2 or 3 years we can get some nice scalps in November? Who cares. Shaka has 2 years to show he can get it done IN MARCH. That's looking like a pretty tall order this year.

What are you even talking about?  We beat the team that won the national title on March 10.

In Kolek's and Oso's last year yes we lost back to back games in March, but one was at #12 Creighton without Kolek or Oso and we were in a 2 possession game with 2 minutes left, and the other was a 7 point loss to #2 and eventual national champion UCONN without Kolek.  We then rebounded and won 3 straight before again losing to UCONN in the BET title game before making the Sweet 16.  We went 11-5 in February/March that year, and 3 of the losses were without our All American point guard.