Syria = Impending S-Show

[Scoop Snoop]

You have no interest in seeking out any information that doesn't conform to your preconceived notion of right and wrong.  Which is EXTREMELY juvenile.  These are PEOPLE.  Have you no empathy for them?  What is their crime?  Existence?  Do they not matter to you because they're Muslims?  Just say that if it's what you truly think.

I think there is just a HINT of empathy implied in Muggsy's post, but other than that-spot on.

[MU82]

This is fking ridiculous.  They were attacked and unfortunately innocent civilians die in war.  If this is a "genocidal state", how come the death count isn't 500 thousand?  When we bombed Mosul was that genocide?  Those that keep hammering this inane narrative are directly responsible for further antisemitism and anti-israel garbage. 

I was raised Jewish, and my brother, an Orthodox Jew, lives in Israel. I firmly believe Israel has a right to exist, to thrive and to defend itself. I even reluctantly justified innocent Palestinian civilians dying in Israel's initial reaction to Oct. 7: Hamas had declared war, and did so in an especially evil way, so Israel had to defend itself by just about any means.

It's nearly two years later, and the war, for all intents and purposes, has been over for a long time. It's shameful that Israel's leaders are purposefully starving and casually killing innocent people, and I agree with the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Israelis who believe Bibi wants to keep the "war" (as it is) going to protect his own interests.

So am I antisemitic and anti-Israel?

[The Sultan]

Probably according to Muggs. But he's also the dude who thought it would be easy to just take Iran's oil. Simple man with simple thoughts.

Anyway this is why he was kicked off Dodds' board. For as low a signal-to-noise ratio they have, even he's an outlier.

[MuggsyB]

I was raised Jewish, and my brother, an Orthodox Jew, lives in Israel. I firmly believe Israel has a right to exist, to thrive and to defend itself. I even reluctantly justified innocent Palestinian civilians dying in Israel's initial reaction to Oct. 7: Hamas had declared war, and did so in an especially evil way, so Israel had to defend itself by just about any means.

It's nearly two years later, and the war, for all intents and purposes, has been over for a long time. It's shameful that Israel's leaders are purposefully starving and casually killing innocent people, and I agree with the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Israelis who believe Bibi wants to keep the "war" (as it is) going to protect his own interests.

So am I antisemitic and anti-Israel?

Hamas has fired missiles at food trucks.  Israel isn't blameless, and there are assheads in tbeir govt., but starving Palestinians is an asset for Hamas.   

Do you think Israel is "a genocidal state"?

[Shaka Shart]

Hamas has fired missiles at food trucks.  Israel isn't blameless, and there are assheads in tbeir govt., but starving Palestinians is an asset for Hamas.   

Do you think Israel is "a genocidal state"?

It's common knowledge that intercepting missiles is achieved by firing machine guns into thousands of starving people. You're spot on

[MU82]

Hamas has fired missiles at food trucks.  Israel isn't blameless, and there are assheads in tbeir govt., but starving Palestinians is an asset for Hamas.   

Do you think Israel is "a genocidal state"?

I think Israel's leadership is committing war crimes. And just plain crimes, too. And is lacking in morals, ethics and decency. As a supporter of all the things I already mentioned, it makes me ill. It's also counterproductive to Israel's cause.

You are focused on semantics. Focus on what people are actually saying and/or doing before lobbing accusations. We all know what Bibi is saying and doing, and what his most powerful supporters in America are saying and doing, too. It's repulsive.

And to answer my own question - one you weaseled out of answering - I'm quite certain I'm neither antisemitic nor anti-Israel.

[Shaka Shart]

https://nyti.ms/3J2Ime4

[MuggsyB]

I think Israel's leadership is committing war crimes. And just plain crimes, too. And is lacking in morals, ethics and decency. As a supporter of all the things I already mentioned, it makes me ill. It's also counterproductive to Israel's cause.

You are focused on semantics. Focus on what people are actually saying and/or doing before lobbing accusations. We all know what Bibi is saying and doing, and what his most powerful supporters in America are saying and doing, too. It's repulsive.

And to answer my own question - one you weaseled out of answering - I'm quite certain I'm neither antisemitic nor anti-Israel.

You weaseled out of my question and it's not semantics.  I also don't trust a single word the UN says about Israel.  Did we commit war crimes is Mosul?  Has Hamas committed war crimes?  Hezbollah?  Iran?  Why is no one protesting their barbarism? Israel cannot exist sise by side with a Hamas ruled Gaza.  There are some in the Israeli government and IDF that have done inexcusable things.  But Israel's goal is not fking genocide.  If it was, Gaza would beva parking lot with about 500K dead Palestinians.   And you know this full well.   

[Pakuni]

Hamas has fired missiles at food trucks.  Israel isn't blameless, and there are assheads in tbeir govt., but starving Palestinians is an asset for Hamas.   

Do you think Israel is "a genocidal state"?

If starving civilians is an asset for Hamas, then why is Israel starving civilians?

[jesmu84]

You weaseled out of my question and it's not semantics.  I also don't trust a single word the UN says about Israel.  Did we commit war crimes is Mosul?  Has Hamas committed war crimes?  Hezbollah?  Iran?  Why is no one protesting their barbarism? Israel cannot exist sise by side with a Hamas ruled Gaza.  There are some in the Israeli government and IDF that have done inexcusable things.  But Israel's goal is not fking genocide.  If it was, Gaza would beva parking lot with about 500K dead Palestinians.   And you know this full well.   

Its probably mostly because our tax dollars aren't going to those groups.

Also, from what I would assume, you'd do a genocide slowly and quietly or else face severe wrath from the globe - which is exactly what Israel is doing.

[MU82]

You weaseled out of my question and it's not semantics.  I also don't trust a single word the UN says about Israel.  Did we commit war crimes is Mosul?  Has Hamas committed war crimes?  Hezbollah?  Iran?  Why is no one protesting their barbarism? Israel cannot exist sise by side with a Hamas ruled Gaza.  There are some in the Israeli government and IDF that have done inexcusable things.  But Israel's goal is not fking genocide.  If it was, Gaza would beva parking lot with about 500K dead Palestinians.   And you know this full well.   

Open your eyes and, if you have the capability, use common sense.

Israelis have lost faith in their leadership, including the war criminal in charge.

[Jockey]

Fthe last two weeks, the State Department's office of Israeli Palestinian Affairs has had no director, because the person in that job was fired along with more than 1,300 other employees on July 11.

[MuggsyB]

Open your eyes and, if you have the capability, use common sense.

Israelis have lost faith in their leadership, including the war criminal in charge.

With all due respect, open your eyes.  This is war, and unfortunately during war innocent civilians die and mistakes are made.  In every conflict which led to war have all of these countries been genocidal states led by war criminals?  Why are you and and seemingmly 90% of the world obsessed with innocent Palestinians vs innocent South Sudanese?  Or Burmese?  Or Japanese during WW2?  Or Ukrainians?  Or Russians?  Or Syrians?  Or Germans we bombed at Dresden? Or Rwandans or any civilians on the entire continent of Africa?  If we're going to compare the ratio of innocent people dead vs terrorists l, it's probably 1 to 1 in Gaza.  That's terrible and a consequence of war, but compared to the other examples I've provided, the ratio is way higher in every other Western war/conflict.

Proportially the Oct 7th Hamas attacks was the equivalent of 45,000 civilians slaughtered on 9/11/01.  Imagine if New Jersey, was a terrorist state like Gaza and committed those atrocities, and took 1000 hostages.  WTF do you think we would do?  Have the UN access our military strikes?  We killed like 10,000+ innocent civilians in Mosul alone.  The fact of the matter is Israel is surrounded by enemies that don't play by the rules.  They still have hostages that are alive BTW.  We should all open our eyes and firmly understand that Islamic terrorism, and their disgusting ideological hatred isn't going anywhere.    Our strategy of placating them has been a disaster. 

[Uncle Rico]

With all due respect, open your eyes.  This is war, and unfortunately during war innocent civilians die and mistakes are made.  In every conflict which led to war have all of these countries been genocidal states led by war criminals?  Why are you and and seemingmly 90% of the world obsessed with innocent Palestinians vs innocent South Sudanese?  Or Burmese?  Or Japanese during WW2?  Or Ukrainians?  Or Russians?  Or Syrians?  Or Germans we bombed at Dresden? Or Rwandans or any civilians on the entire continent of Africa?  If we're going to compare the ratio of innocent people dead vs terrorists l, it's probably 1 to 1 in Gaza.  That's terrible and a consequence of war, but compared to the other examples I've provided, the ratio is way higher in every other Western war/conflict.

Proportially the Oct 7th Hamas attacks was the equivalent of 45,000 civilians slaughtered on 9/11/01.  Imagine if New Jersey, was a terrorist state like Gaza and committed those atrocities, and took 1000 hostages.  WTF do you think we would do?  Have the UN access our military strikes?  We killed like 10,000+ innocent civilians in Mosul alone.  The fact of the matter is Israel is surrounded by enemies that don't play by the rules.  They still have hostages that are alive BTW.  We should all open our eyes and firmly understand that Islamic terrorism, and their disgusting ideological hatred isn't going anywhere.    Our strategy of placating them has been a disaster. 

And none of that changes the facts.

Netanyahu is a criminal in his own country (that's democracy for you) and a war criminal

[Shaka Shart]

With all due respect, open your eyes.  This is war, and unfortunately during war innocent civilians die and mistakes are made.  In every conflict which led to war have all of these countries been genocidal states led by war criminals?  Why are you and and seemingmly 90% of the world obsessed with innocent Palestinians vs innocent South Sudanese?  Or Burmese?  Or Japanese during WW2?  Or Ukrainians?  Or Russians?  Or Syrians?  Or Germans we bombed at Dresden? Or Rwandans or any civilians on the entire continent of Africa?  If we're going to compare the ratio of innocent people dead vs terrorists l, it's probably 1 to 1 in Gaza.  That's terrible and a consequence of war, but compared to the other examples I've provided, the ratio is way higher in every other Western war/conflict.

Proportially the Oct 7th Hamas attacks was the equivalent of 45,000 civilians slaughtered on 9/11/01.  Imagine if New Jersey, was a terrorist state like Gaza and committed those atrocities, and took 1000 hostages.  WTF do you think we would do?  Have the UN access our military strikes?  We killed like 10,000+ innocent civilians in Mosul alone.  The fact of the matter is Israel is surrounded by enemies that don't play by the rules.  They still have hostages that are alive BTW.  We should all open our eyes and firmly understand that Islamic terrorism, and their disgusting ideological hatred isn't going anywhere.    Our strategy of placating them has been a disaster. 

Proportionally vs 9/11 Israel has killed about 6M Palestinians then. Thats about the estimated amount of Jews killed in the holocaust.

If you're so upset about this college basketball board not talking about the Burmese, why haven't you started a topic on it?

[Uncle Rico]

Proportionally vs 9/11 Israel has killed about 6M Palestinians then. Thats about the estimated amount of Jews killed in the holocaust.

If you're so upset about this college basketball board not talking about the Burmese, why haven't you started a topic on it?

Burmese pythons are a nuisance in Florida but Florida is a garbage state

[MuggsyB]

Proportionally vs 9/11 Israel has killed about 6M Palestinians then. Thats about the estimated amount of Jews killed in the holocaust.

If you're so upset about this college basketball board not talking about the Burmese, why haven't you started a topic on it?

That's complete nonsense.  And Iran/Hamas is to blame for 95% of this. 

I'm illustrating a point regarding Burma and other places.  I don't care any more about innocent Palestinians being killed or starved, than I do innocent people all over the world that are suffering the same predicament.  You, and others here, believe Netanyahu is a combination of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, and that Israel as a whole is worse than actual genocidal states.

[Uncle Rico]

That's complete nonsense.  And Iran/Hamas is to blame for 95% of this. 

I'm illustrating a point regarding Burma and other places.  I don't care any more about innocent Palestinians being killed or starved, than I do innocent people all over the world that are suffering the same predicament.  You, and others here, believe Netanyahu is a combination of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, and that Israel as a whole is worse than actual genocidal states.

Well, Netanyahu is a war criminal.

[MU82]

With all due respect, open your eyes.  This is war, and unfortunately during war innocent civilians die and mistakes are made.  In every conflict which led to war have all of these countries been genocidal states led by war criminals?  Why are you and and seemingmly 90% of the world obsessed with innocent Palestinians vs innocent South Sudanese?  Or Burmese?  Or Japanese during WW2?  Or Ukrainians?  Or Russians?  Or Syrians?  Or Germans we bombed at Dresden? Or Rwandans or any civilians on the entire continent of Africa?  If we're going to compare the ratio of innocent people dead vs terrorists l, it's probably 1 to 1 in Gaza.  That's terrible and a consequence of war, but compared to the other examples I've provided, the ratio is way higher in every other Western war/conflict.

Proportially the Oct 7th Hamas attacks was the equivalent of 45,000 civilians slaughtered on 9/11/01.  Imagine if New Jersey, was a terrorist state like Gaza and committed those atrocities, and took 1000 hostages.  WTF do you think we would do?  Have the UN access our military strikes?  We killed like 10,000+ innocent civilians in Mosul alone.  The fact of the matter is Israel is surrounded by enemies that don't play by the rules.  They still have hostages that are alive BTW.  We should all open our eyes and firmly understand that Islamic terrorism, and their disgusting ideological hatred isn't going anywhere.    Our strategy of placating them has been a disaster. 

Ridiculous post filled with false equivalences, strawman arguments and outright fallacies. The death and starvation going on now in Gaza is 100% unnecessary; it is a choice being made by corrupt Israeli leaders.

I suggest you read the just-published New York Times Magazine article headlined: SECRET MEETINGS, ALTERED RECORDS, IGNORED WARNINGS: HOW ISRAEL'S PRIME MINISTER PROLONGED THE WAR IN GAZA TO STAY IN POWER

It's behind a paywall, so I won't cut-and-paste the whole thing, but here are the first several paragraphs showing how Netanyahu has kept the war going for a year and a half longer than necessary. Why? For one reason only: To protect his own self-interests.

Six months into the war in the Gaza Strip, Benjamin Netanyahu was preparing to bring it to a halt. Negotiations were underway for an extended cease-fire with Hamas, and he was ready to agree to a compromise. He had dispatched an envoy to convey Israel's new position to the Egyptian mediators. Now, at a meeting at the Ministry of Defense in Tel Aviv, he needed to get his cabinet onboard. He had kept the plan off the meeting's written agenda. The idea was to reveal it suddenly, preventing resistant ministers from coordinating their response.

It was April 2024, long before Netanyahu mounted his political comeback. The proposal on the table would have paused the Gaza war for at least six weeks. It would have created a window for negotiations with Hamas over a permanent truce. More than 30 hostages captured by Hamas at the start of the war would have been released within weeks. Still more would have been freed if the truce was extended. And the devastation of Gaza, where roughly two million people were trying to survive daily attacks, would have come to a halt.

Ending the war would then have raised the chances of a landmark peace deal with Saudi Arabia, the Arab world's most powerful country. For months, the Saudi leadership had secretly signaled its willingness to accelerate peace talks with Israel — as long as the war in Gaza stopped. The normalization of ties between the Saudi and Israeli governments, an achievement that had eluded every Israeli leader since the state's founding in 1948, would have secured Israel's status in the region as well as Netanyahu's long-term legacy.

But for Netanyahu, a truce also came with personal risk. As prime minister, he led a fragile coalition that depended on the support of far-right ministers who wanted to occupy Gaza, not withdraw from it. They sought a long war that would ultimately enable Israel to re-establish Jewish settlements in Gaza. If a cease-fire came too soon, these ministers might decide to collapse the ruling coalition. That would prompt early elections that polls showed Netanyahu would lose. Out of office, Netanyahu was vulnerable. Since 2020, he had been standing trial for corruption; the charges, which he denied, mostly related to granting favors to businessmen in exchange for gifts and favorable media coverage. Shorn of power, Netanyahu would lose the ability to force out the attorney general who oversaw his prosecution — as indeed his government would later attempt to do.

As the cabinet discussed other matters, an aide hurried into the meeting room with a document summarizing Israel's new negotiating position, quietly placing it in front of Netanyahu. He gave it one last read, ticking off various points with his pen. The route to a truce presented real danger, but he seemed ready to move ahead.

Then Bezalel Smotrich, his finance minister, interrupted the proceedings. As a young activist in 2005, Smotrich was detained for weeks — though never charged — on suspicion of plotting to blow up vehicles on a major highway in order to slow the dismantling of Israeli settlements in Gaza. Along with Itamar Ben-Gvir, the far-right national-security minister, Smotrich was now one of the strongest advocates in the cabinet for re-establishing those settlements. He had recently called for most of Gaza's Palestinian population to leave. Now, at the cabinet meeting, Smotrich declared that he had heard rumors of a plan for a deal. The details disturbed him. "I want you to know that if a surrender agreement like this is brought forward, you no longer have a government," Smotrich said. "The government is finished."

It was 5:44 p.m., according to minutes of the meeting. At that moment, the prime minister was forced to choose between the chance of a truce and his political survival — and Netanyahu opted for survival. There was no cease-fire plan, he promised Smotrich. "No, no, there's no such thing," he said. And as the cabinet discussion moved on, Netanyahu quietly leaned over to his security advisers and whispered what must have by then become obvious to them: "Don't present the plan."

+++

Sorry Muggs, but Bibi knew what the right thing to do was; he simply chose not to do it. Why keep defending a war criminal whom even most Israelis no longer want to lead their country?

Not only has he orchestrated the preventable deaths and starvation of innocent people, and not only did he personally prevent Israeli hostages from being returned to their families, but he also scuttled possible lasting peace between his country and Saudi Arabia. What a leader!

These were choices he made not to make Israel safer but to keep himself in power.

What began as a just war of self-defense (one that had support of pretty much every country in the world that mattered) has evolved into what you would call a "Sh!t-Show" (one that has been condemned by most of the free world).

It's performance theater by a war criminal just to protect himself.

Millions of Israelis want to be done with him. Are they antisemitic and anti-Israel, too?

Now, please, tell me how many innocents died in Gettysburg as justification for Bibi starving and murdering human beings for no reason.

[Uncle Rico]

Muggs-

Tactical question for you.

Would you utilize the giant space lasers Israel has against Iran and Hamas or would you prefer they continue to use them to start wildfires across the globe?

I'll hang up and listen.  Thanks

[Hards Alumni]

That's complete nonsense.  And Iran/Hamas is to blame for 95% of this. 

I'm illustrating a point regarding Burma and other places.  I don't care any more about innocent Palestinians being killed or starved, than I do innocent people all over the world that are suffering the same predicament.  You, and others here, believe Netanyahu is a combination of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, and that Israel as a whole is worse than actual genocidal states.

Fully down the propaganda hole.  What a disgraceful Marquette grad.

[MuggsyB]

Fully down the propaganda hole.  What a disgraceful Marquette grad.

We know you like Hamas. 

[Hards Alumni]

We know you like Hamas. 

I don't but I understand why they exist.  Rebel groups have existed since the dawn of time in an attempt to throw off the shackles of their oppressors.

[The Sultan]

We know you like Hamas. 

You have your head in the sand and this board is spending too much time dealing with your ignorance.

[forgetful]

That's complete nonsense.  And Iran/Hamas is to blame for 95% of this. 

I'm illustrating a point regarding Burma and other places.  I don't care any more about innocent Palestinians being killed or starved, than I do innocent people all over the world that are suffering the same predicament.  You, and others here, believe Netanyahu is a combination of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot, and that Israel as a whole is worse than actual genocidal states.

Can you define to me how one discerns who is to blame, and what defines the difference between state sponsored terrorism of proxy groups, support of freedom fighters, or supporting "intelligence operations" that recruit and fund civilians to commit acts of war?