🇮🇱 vs 🇮🇷

[mu_hilltopper]

What's the over/under on Iranian terrorism on US soil set at?  1 week?  2?

[GB Warrior]

We illegally bombing Saudi Arabia, too?

No they have sports Jay Bee likes so no concerns here.

I'm sick of the winning.

[Dish]

WWE sure picked a hell of a time to be headed over to Saudi Arabia next week.

[Mutaman]

Just not the same around here w/o the dentists. Muggsy's a poor substitute- he's not an pretty boy.

[Shaka Shart]

Depending on who you read, the negotiations appeared to be a bit of a joke with Iran repeating the same messaging and not wanting to budge.  They continue to enrich uranium, try to expand ballistic missile capabilities, etc... 

Iran negotiated and started complying. But then the US tore up the treaty because reasons. Would you come to the negotiation table again? Why would you believe that any of them would be honored or be in good faith anyway.



The US only has threat of force now. Our word doesn't mean much anymore.

This is not an endorsement of the Iranian regime, but if you were in that position you'd probably prefer not to waste your time either.

[The Sultan]

Even though I was against it, at least I GOT our invasion of Iraq.

This I don't get at all. We have been manipulated into doing Netanyahu's bidding, and it's really strange how we ended up here. Anyone with any degree of foresight will see that this has the possibility of being MUCH more problematic than Iraq - way stronger opponent with much better abilities to strike back. Not to mention that this is much less popular domestically.

And I have no idea what strategic American interest is being served here. The whole point of developing domestic energy sources was so that we no longer had to be involved in this nonsense.

Instead of talking softly and carrying a big stick, we are full of bluster and trying to half-ass it. It's not going to work.

[GB Warrior]

Even though I was against it, at least I GOT our invasion of Iraq.

This I don't get at all. We have been manipulated into doing Netanyahu's bidding, and it's really strange how we ended up here. Anyone with any degree of foresight will see that this has the possibility of being MUCH more problematic than Iraq - way stronger opponent with much better abilities to strike back. Not to mention that this is much less popular domestically.

And I have no idea what strategic American interest is being served here. The whole point of developing domestic energy sources was so that we no longer had to be involved in this nonsense.

Instead of talking softly and carrying a big stick, we are full of bluster and trying to half-ass it. It's not going to work.

Maybe we will leave the rebuilding to Israel because they've proven adept at navigating complex humanitarian disasters they've created

[MUBurrow]

This I don't get at all. We have been manipulated into doing Netanyahu's bidding, and it's really strange how we ended up here.

This is where I'm at, and despite what Muggs' mentalist capabilities would tell you, I'm fairly hawkish in thinking the US should support Israel with treasure and weapons as far as it wants to take its fight with Iran.

But by most accounts, the only thing the US brought to the table that Israel didn't here was bunker busters, and Israel probably had the capacity to take out the remaining sites, but without bunker busters that was just going to require strategic ground forces. Okay? Go for it if you want and we'll give you what we can. But this just seems like directly involving US forces for the sole purpose of preserving Israeli military assets. Which I don't understand at all.

[JakeBarnes]

What's the over/under on Iranian terrorism on US soil set at?  1 week?  2?

Not just worried about Iran.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/russias-medvedev-says-trump-started-new-war-us-after-attack-iran-2025-06-22/

Same official stated "the future production of nuclear weapons will continue" and that "a number of countries are ready to directly supply Iran with their own nuclear warheads"

So, everything's fine.

[The Sultan]

This is where I'm at, and despite what Muggs' mentalist capabilities would tell you, I'm fairly hawkish in thinking the US should support Israel with treasure and weapons as far as it wants to take its fight with Iran.

But by most accounts, the only thing the US brought to the table that Israel didn't here was bunker busters, and Israel probably had the capacity to take out the remaining sites, but without bunker busters that was just going to require strategic ground forces. Okay? Go for it if you want and we'll give you what we can. But this just seems like directly involving US forces for the sole purpose of preserving Israeli military assets. Which I don't understand at all.

From a complete realpolitik point of view, our alliance with Israel has given us absolutely nothing of value. One could argue that it has actually been more harmful than helpful to our long term interests.

[JakeBarnes]

Iran negotiated and started complying. But then the US tore up the treaty because reasons. Would you come to the negotiation table again? Why would you believe that any of them would be honored or be in good faith anyway.



The US only has threat of force now. Our word doesn't mean much anymore.

This is not an endorsement of the Iranian regime, but if you were in that position you'd probably prefer not to waste your time either.

This is the most frustrating part. Maybe this wasn't ever preventable. But at one point we had a deal and oversight. But that deal was torn up because of nothing other than vanity.

[Uncle Rico]

From a complete realpolitik point of view, our alliance with Israel has given us absolutely nothing of value. One could argue that it has actually been more harmful than helpful to our long term interests.

It's been very helpful for political fundraising

[Jockey]

This is where I'm at, and despite what Muggs' mentalist capabilities would tell you, I'm fairly hawkish in thinking the US should support Israel with treasure and weapons as far as it wants to take its fight with Iran.

But by most accounts, the only thing the US brought to the table that Israel didn't here was bunker busters, and Israel probably had the capacity to take out the remaining sites, but without bunker busters that was just going to require strategic ground forces. Okay? Go for it if you want and we'll give you what we can. But this just seems like directly involving US forces for the sole purpose of preserving Israeli military assets. Which I don't understand at all.

This might br very reasonable thinking IF last night was the end point of this.

But we know it isn't. We have no plan for where this goes from here. We will strictly be reactive.

[Scoop Snoop]

This might br very reasonable thinking IF last night was the end point of this.

But we know it isn't. We have no plan for where this goes from here. We will strictly be reactive.

Bingo!

[Uncle Rico]

This might br very reasonable thinking IF last night was the end point of this.

But we know it isn't. We have no plan for where this goes from here. We will strictly be reactive.

We have a big, beautiful plan.  The greatest plan ever.

[jesmu84]

This is the most frustrating part. Maybe this wasn't ever preventable. But at one point we had a deal and oversight. But that deal was torn up because of nothing other than vanity.

The outcome of this is nations believing the only true way to maintain sovereignty/security is by obtaining a nuclear weapon by any means.

[Scoop Snoop]

What's the over/under on Iranian terrorism on US soil set at?  1 week?  2?

Relax! The 22-year-old former landscape worker and part -time grocery bagger who is now in charge of counter terrorism will keep us safe with his extensive experience and impressive credentials in this area.

[Jockey]

Relax! The 22-year-old former landscape worker and part -time grocery bagger who is now in charge of counter terrorism will keep us safe with his extensive experience and impressive credentials in this area.

Is he better than the drunk womanizer at the Pentagon?

[Shaka Shart]

What's the over/under on Iranian terrorism on US soil set at?  1 week?  2?

Getting excited to start taking off my underwear at tsa

[dgies9156]

OK,

Pardon my cynicism but:

1) The Iranians already blame us for the attacks Israel made on Iran. We're viewed by Iran as fighting a proxy war using Israel, just as they use Hezbollah and Hamas as a proxy to attack Israel.We were up to our eyeballs in Iranian hatred long before we bombed anything.

2) While it is debatable how far Iran was from actually building a functioning nuclear bomb, the fact is it was coming. You don't build a hardened shelter 300 feet under a mountain unless you're doing something you really want to protect -- and hide.

3) For the Iranians, diplomacy is a stalling technique. Yes, I'd like it to work as much as anyone in here. But I have a difficult time trusting the diplomacy of a country constantly screaming "Death to America" and "Death to Israel", all the while supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.

4) I said this before and I'll say it again: "If Iran gets the bomb, to where do you think it will be aimed?" And, for the record, the Iranians are not particularly popular with the rest of the Muslim Middle East.

Bottom Line: Between the U.S. and Israel, we set the Iranian bomb program back more than 20 years. Sure, Iran will be angry and they may try to retaliate, but if they do, the retribution that can be foisted on their country by the American military makes what Israel's done to date look like a fireworks show. I'm confident the Mullahs know this and will be extremely careful.

We cannot think of Iran -- or any part of the Middle East for that matter -- in American or Western terms. These are countries incapable of a pluralistic society. They're tribal and their culture is to see hatred in anyone who threatens their tribe. That's why all the peace initiatives, save one, haven't worked. 

[forgetful]

OK,

Pardon my cynicism but:

1) The Iranians already blame us for the attacks Israel made on Iran. We're viewed by Iran as fighting a proxy war using Israel, just as they use Hezbollah and Hamas as a proxy to attack Israel.We were up to our eyeballs in Iranian hatred long before we bombed anything.

2) While it is debatable how far Iran was from actually building a functioning nuclear bomb, the fact is it was coming. You don't build a hardened shelter 300 feet under a mountain unless you're doing something you really want to protect -- and hide.

3) For the Iranians, diplomacy is a stalling technique. Yes, I'd like it to work as much as anyone in here. But I have a difficult time trusting the diplomacy of a country constantly screaming "Death to America" and "Death to Israel", all the while supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.

4) I said this before and I'll say it again: "If Iran gets the bomb, to where do you think it will be aimed?" And, for the record, the Iranians are not particularly popular with the rest of the Muslim Middle East.

Bottom Line: Between the U.S. and Israel, we set the Iranian bomb program back more than 20 years. Sure, Iran will be angry and they may try to retaliate, but if they do, the retribution that can be foisted on their country by the American military makes what Israel's done to date look like a fireworks show. I'm confident the Mullahs know this and will be extremely careful.

We cannot think of Iran -- or any part of the Middle East for that matter -- in American or Western terms. These are countries incapable of a pluralistic society. They're tribal and their culture is to see hatred in anyone who threatens their tribe. That's why all the peace initiatives, save one, haven't worked. 

I totally get the bolded, but why would Iran trust us either, almost 20-years ago, a presidential candidate sang "Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran" to The Beach Boys song at rallies, we have been threatening to obliterate Iran forever.

And regarding your wrap up, it appears as if we did not set the program back more than 20-years. Most accounts are their uranium was removed. They could set up a small centrifuge (or already have) in a matter of weeks and have a nuke within a month still if they would like one. If they really wanted a nuke, they would have had one 10-years ago.

[The Sultan]

OK,

Pardon my cynicism but:

1) The Iranians already blame us for the attacks Israel made on Iran. We're viewed by Iran as fighting a proxy war using Israel, just as they use Hezbollah and Hamas as a proxy to attack Israel.We were up to our eyeballs in Iranian hatred long before we bombed anything.

2) While it is debatable how far Iran was from actually building a functioning nuclear bomb, the fact is it was coming. You don't build a hardened shelter 300 feet under a mountain unless you're doing something you really want to protect -- and hide.

3) For the Iranians, diplomacy is a stalling technique. Yes, I'd like it to work as much as anyone in here. But I have a difficult time trusting the diplomacy of a country constantly screaming "Death to America" and "Death to Israel", all the while supporting Hamas and Hezbollah.

4) I said this before and I'll say it again: "If Iran gets the bomb, to where do you think it will be aimed?" And, for the record, the Iranians are not particularly popular with the rest of the Muslim Middle East.

Bottom Line: Between the U.S. and Israel, we set the Iranian bomb program back more than 20 years. Sure, Iran will be angry and they may try to retaliate, but if they do, the retribution that can be foisted on their country by the American military makes what Israel's done to date look like a fireworks show. I'm confident the Mullahs know this and will be extremely careful.

We cannot think of Iran -- or any part of the Middle East for that matter -- in American or Western terms. These are countries incapable of a pluralistic society. They're tribal and their culture is to see hatred in anyone who threatens their tribe. That's why all the peace initiatives, save one, haven't worked. 

1. I understand that, but we now attacked them directly, which means they are going to be seen as defending themselves when they respond.

2. It's not that debatable. Our own intelligence said they weren't seeking to develop one.

3. They've been screaming those things for nearly fifty years now.

4. Nowhere. They're smart enough to realize using one offensively would be a death blow. And they are likely a lot more popular today than they were 24 hours ago.

The rest of your post is laughable considering its the exact same thing that was being said about Iraq over twenty years ago. And that cost us thousands of lives and billions of dollars. And you are just going to trot out those same out justifications again? Please. How many times are you going to be fooled?

[The Sultan]

Then there's this...

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-iran-attack-no-intel-nuclear-1235369641/

"Just months ago, Trump's Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard testified to Congress, in her opening statement, that the U.S. intel community "continues to assess that Iran is not building a nuclear weapon" and had not reauthorized its nuclear weapons program.

While Trump recently publicly disputed Gabbard's testimony, according to two administration officials with knowledge of internal deliberations in recent weeks, the president's decision to strike was not driven by any new U.S. intelligence on Iran.

"There is no intel," says one of the officials, who were granted anonymity to discuss sensitive matters. "Nothing new, that I'm aware of... The president is protecting the United States and our interests, [but] the intelligence assessments have not really changed from what they were before."


So our intelligence suggested that they weren't looking to build a weapon...and no new intelligence claimed anything had changed...yet we attacked anyway?  WTF is that?

[brewcity77]

WTF is that?

Stupidity and ignorance of history. We made a deal with Iran, it was working, then we went back on our word and attacked them.

Reminds me of how we made a deal with the Mujahideen in the 1980s, withdrew our support once Russia pulled out, and left a vacuum for the Taliban to fill.

Ultimately, Bin Laden got his revenge on 9/11, planning for over a decade.

I fully expect this will end like that. In the short term, Americans all over the world will be targeted by terrorists, but in the long term we'll see another 9/11, maybe more than one. It might not be for 10 or 20 years, but they won't forgive and they won't forget. We betrayed our word, doubled down on that betrayal by attacking Iran when our own DNI just said they weren't working on a weapon, and American soldiers and citizens will pay the price.

[Jockey]

BTW, they were set back months - not 20 years.

Their long range plan may be set back years, but creating a rudimentary bombshell, aka Hiroshima, can still be accomplished quickly if they so desire.