2025 MLB Season

[cheebs09]

Yeah, and even if he bet on his team to win, he might have made decisions that hurt the team in order to squeeze out a single win.

[WhiteTrash]

I don't think MLB being tolerant of gambling by fans on their sport has ANYTHING to do with Rose.  Players and managers gambling cannot be allowed because it risks the integrity of the game.  MLB cannot tolerate anything that may entice players to not give their best.

In Rose's case, he bet on his team while managing, which to me is a disqualifier.

Bonds, Clemens, etc. are just examples of baseball's long tradition of cheating to get a competitive advantage.  (Electronically stealing signs, corking bats, doctoring the baseball, amphetamines/greenies, etc.)  They just found something that worked too well.

If the steroids guys got in, I wouldn't like it, but I'd be OK with it.  There are definitely steroid users in the HOF, probably double figures.

Joe Jackson is the one guy who absolutely, positively, should not be elected to HOF.  There is no dispute that he took money to lose World Series games on purpose.  There should be no getting around that.

I think you misunderstood my post. I was speaking to the fans' majority position to not elect Rose to the HOF. It seemed to run contrary to a general acceptance of gambling on sports these days.

I tend to agree on Jackson even though he batted .375 in the Series.

[Jockey]

I think you misunderstood my post. I was speaking to the fans' majority position to not elect Rose to the HOF. It seemed to run contrary to a general acceptance of gambling on sports these days.

I tend to agree on Jackson even though he batted .375 in the Series.

So Shoeless played better when he was "throwing" games than when he wasn't? Did the gamblers forget to explain the premise to him?

[TallTitan34]

Random complaint: 

I didn't mind the runner on second to start extras in 2020 since that was a good throw away season to try stuff.  But I really hate that it stuck around. 

An extra inning loss doesn't feel equal to a regular loss.  I'd hate it a little less if they had an "Extra Inning Loss" category in the standings like hockey. 

I dislike almost everything Manfred has done with the exception of the pitch clock which might be the greatest improvement on the game in my lifetime. 

[tower912]

I like it.  Moves extra innings along.  Quicker resolution equals less strain on pitching staffs for the next 3 games.   

It can never be done in playoff games.

[The Sultan]

And no, I don't think there should be an "extra inning loss" category. I hate the "overtime loss" in the NHL too.

You either win a game...or you lose a game...or in certain sports you can tie. That's it.

[WhiteTrash]

So Shoeless played better when he was "throwing" games than when he wasn't? Did the gamblers forget to explain the premise to him?

LOL. I'm sure he got some "education" from the boys at some point.

[MU82]

Random complaint: 

I didn't mind the runner on second to start extras in 2020 since that was a good throw away season to try stuff.  But I really hate that it stuck around. 

An extra inning loss doesn't feel equal to a regular loss.  I'd hate it a little less if they had an "Extra Inning Loss" category in the standings like hockey. 

I dislike almost everything Manfred has done with the exception of the pitch clock which might be the greatest improvement on the game in my lifetime. 

Gonna respectfully disagree with you here. I really like the runner on second. There is no reason to have a 19-inning or 22-inning or 25-inning regular-season game.

Also, I don't particularly like the OT loss category in the NHL, and I wouldn't like it in MLB either.

[BM1090]

Yeah I love the runner on second. If it ever was adopted for the playoffs I'd hate it, but it's great for fans who don't want to be stuck at a game 18 innings and for wear and tear on players. Big win IMO

[Uncle Rico]

Yeah I love the runner on second. If it ever was adopted for the playoffs I'd hate it, but it's great for fans who don't want to be stuck at a game 18 innings and for wear and tear on players. Big win IMO

Wouldn't be an issue if they re-opened beer sales for extra innings

[Shaka Shart]

This too. I'm 57 years old, and while I saw him play, his peak was when I was a wee lad. Most baseball fans at best have fleeting memories of him and/or never saw him as anything more than an old crank.

A bunch of underaged girls allegedly saw his old crank too.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Random complaint: 

I didn't mind the runner on second to start extras in 2020 since that was a good throw away season to try stuff.  But I really hate that it stuck around. 

An extra inning loss doesn't feel equal to a regular loss.  I'd hate it a little less if they had an "Extra Inning Loss" category in the standings like hockey. 

I dislike almost everything Manfred has done with the exception of the pitch clock which might be the greatest improvement on the game in my lifetime. 

No EIL category.  Didn't need it.

I would have preferred the extra runner doesn't start until the 11th inning.  I read something that 78% of EI games were settled in the 10th.  Seems like a fair statistical compromise between moving the game along and the purists.

[The Sultan]

No EIL category.  Didn't need it.

I would have preferred the extra runner doesn't start until the 11th inning.  I read something that 78% of EI games were settled in the 10th.  Seems like a fair statistical compromise between moving the game along and the purists.

Counterpoint: The "purists" are annoying so anything that gets them irritated is fine by me.

They were also against the pitch clock and the extension of the nets. And surprise, surprise, the former was GREAT for the game, and the latter didn't come close to being the travesty that they said it would be.

[Uncle Rico]

Counterpoint: The "purists" are annoying so anything that gets them irritated is fine by me.

They were also against the pitch clock and the extension of the nets. And surprise, surprise, the former was GREAT for the game, and the latter didn't come close to being the travesty that they said it would be.

Sounds like college basketball purists and amateurism purists

[JWags85]

This too. I'm 57 years old, and while I saw him play, his peak was when I was a wee lad. Most baseball fans at best have fleeting memories of him and/or never saw him as anything more than an old crank.

I'm a good chunk younger than you so I obviously never saw him play, but going to school in SW Ohio, I knew people that revered him.  So my opinion was pretty decent.  But as I grew older, I realized and learned that, beyond the gambling, he was pretty much just a terrible person.

Then, in about 2018, I got my prime Pete Rose moment.  I was at a convention at Mandalay Bay in Vegas, and in the big interior mall between Mandalay and Luxor and other hotels, there was a memorbilia shop.  And they had a regular Pete Rose signing.  Like he was there signing multiple times that week, mid day, for a few hours.  I passed about a half dozen times over 2-3 days when he was there and it was always empty.  At one point, I saw someone in there, so I lingered.  Even with an empty shop and someone willing to pay, I saw the person go up to the table, Rose signed, half heartedly shake a hand, and then immediately go back to reading a newspaper while the person was literally still standing there.

[TallTitan34]

Counterpoint: The "purists" are annoying so anything that gets them irritated is fine by me.

They were also against the pitch clock and the extension of the nets. And surprise, surprise, the former was GREAT for the game, and the latter didn't come close to being the travesty that they said it would be.

I wouldn't consider myself a purist.  I was for the pitch clock and net extensions.  I'm also all in for the automatic strike zone.

I do miss the pitcher batting in the NL but I'm not against having the DH. I enjoyed the strategy of double switches and pitching matchups but that probably extended games more than anything which needed to be reduced in time.  Also, with expanded interleague play it makes sense for every game to played under the same rules.

Guy to start the inning on second, however, is just too much for me.  But I am the outlier.

I would have preferred the extra runner doesn't start until the 11th inning.  I read something that 78% of EI games were settled in the 10th.  Seems like a fair statistical compromise between moving the game along and the purists.

I like this idea a lot since it's staying.

I believe I saw only 10% of games go to extras to begin with which would be 162x15x0.1 = 243 games.  If only 22% go past the 10th, that's only 53 games (2.2%) it would affect each season. 

[dgies9156]

Pete Rose probably will get into the Hall Fame, but it won't be anytime soon. He'll go in about 15 years hence, when some the stigma from the gambling episode is over and most of players in that drama dead.

Ditto for the steroid people, notably Bonds, Clemens, McGwire etc. They should be banned from baseball, but you cannot ignore their contributions to the game.

I'm old enough to have seen Pete Rose play. The sad thing is Pete Rose was a great baseball player. He had some talent and out-worked and out-hustled anyone of his era, which is saying a lot. Never should have left Cincinnati. Ownership of the Reds and Rose were idiots for allowing that to happen.

[cheebs09]

I remember the net debate on here. A certain former poster thought it would end the fan experience. Good to see the game was able to overcome the fans leaving in droves since they were less likely to get a foul ball.

[GB Warrior]

I wouldn't consider myself a purist.  I was for the pitch clock and net extensions.  I'm also all in for the automatic strike zone.

I do miss the pitcher batting in the NL but I'm not against having the DH. I enjoyed the strategy of double switches and pitching matchups but that probably extended games more than anything which needed to be reduced in time.  Also, with expanded interleague play it makes sense for every game to played under the same rules.
 

Universal DH has been great for the game but you can never take away the memory of Woody hitting a home run off Kershaw in the NLCS.

[MU82]

I remember the net debate on here. A certain former poster thought it would end the fan experience. Good to see the game was able to overcome the fans leaving in droves since they were less likely to get a foul ball.

Yeah, hoopaloop was infamous for his idiotic (and occasionally racist) takes ... and his statement that the nets would ruin baseball certainly was one of his more idiotic takes.

[18thandWells]

Universal DH has been great for the game but you can never take away the memory of Woody hitting a home run off Kershaw in the NLCS.

I saw both CC Sabathia and Mark Buehrle homer at Miller Park.

[Shaka Shart]

I remember the net debate on here. A certain former poster thought it would end the fan experience. Good to see the game was able to overcome the fans leaving in droves since they were less likely to get a foul ball.

Incredibly funny debate

[Shaka Shart]

Yeah, hoopaloop was infamous for his idiotic (and occasionally racist) takes ... and his statement that the nets would ruin baseball certainly was one of his more idiotic takes.

Occasionally?

[BM1090]

Think they may have found something today with the home run robbery to save the game. They finally have a weaker schedule the next 10 days. Let's see if they can rip off 6 or 7 out of 9.

Three in a row, but they don't look great doing it. Pitching is coming around. Offense doing just enough. If Henderson is legit and Woodruff can be his usual self in July, they may have something.

Offense looks a lot better if Chourio and Yelich start hitting.

[cheebs09]

Three in a row, but they don't look great doing it. Pitching is coming around. Offense doing just enough. If Henderson is legit and Woodruff can be his usual self in July, they may have something.

Offense looks a lot better if Chourio and Yelich start hitting.

I guess I don't have very high hopes for Woodruff after 1.5 years off. The pitching has been a pleasant surprise, but offense bites them. Feels like a similar story to most years.