Will we ever be happy?

[PointWarrior]

MU has made the tournament more than 4 season in a row.  3 amigos first season (2 NCAA tourney wins I 4 years for them, by the way) until Bizz's final season.  The 98 wins in 4 seasons is the best since the McGuire years.
   And, to be fair, going back to the early days of message boards in general and scoop specifically, fans and posters have never been satisfied.
 Crean couldn't recruit bigs, had a playback full of plays and only ran a 3 man weave, and was clueless against a zone.  Then he had the gall to leave.
  Buzz was shady, never installed the offense until a few games into the season, relied too heavily on JUCO's at the expense of high schoolers.
  Wojo never outgrew his Duke roots, couldn't recruit athletic switchables, couldn't coach defense, couldn't adjust.
 
Nothing has changed.   Posters criticizing the coach and each other.  The circle of life.

Good point - unrelenting universal defense of a coach can do no wrong has been around forever - what were QoS and Wojo-slurpers called during the Crean and Buzz era?

[TedBaxter]

Tower-

Marquette fans deserve better than what they have gotten.  It's ok to admit the Shaka era is an error and we cut bait sooner than later.  We are trending down and the players he has recruited just aren't good enough for the fans who demand excellence.

You find joy in the journey and the process when the only joy comes from winning.  Fans pour their heart and souls into the team with an over abundance of enthusiasm and positivity.  They deserve the wins more than the team in true actuality.

Some of have been fans since Tex Winters was here.  That's a really long time!  They'll be dead soon and they won't have a second national championship they deserve for their loyalty.  That is sad.

How many fans actually can go back to when Tex Winters was coaching here?  I'm sure there are a few, but not too many.

A friend of mine signed with Marquette before Tex Winters left to go to Kansas State and Tex asked to join him at Kansas State.  He had his 90th birthday in December. He stayed with Marquette and became a 3 year starter playing on an elite 8 team.

[Dish]

I think this season is difficult to reconcile.

MU goes through a gauntlet in the non-conference, ultimately playing five tournament teams (with seed lines of nine or better) and goes 4-1. That included a three game stretch at Maryland, home Purdue, neutral Georgia. Consensus top 10 team.

They get into Big East play, and end up going 3-7 versus tournament teams. No major injuries to speak of, and the eye test going into March just wasn't great.

With 3 outstanding senior guards, all graduating, it probably was this past offseason to get a big in the portal. Shaka stuck to his guns, and for some it's frustrating to not see more development out of his recruits.

Is it realistic for MU to be a 2 seed every year? No, absolutely not, that'd be a ridiculous expectation. Will there be a down season every now and then? Sure, of course. Is it frustrating when MU is a top 10 team for half a season and whimpers out of the tournament? Yes.

Going forward, how does MU build off these last four years? The administration gives the resources to the program (MU spends the 4th most in the country on men's basketball, and that number no longer reflects Wojo's buyout). I understand some are happy with this season's outcome on the whole (totally get it) and some wondering what happened the second half of this year and where do we go from here.

[Pakuni]

If you're offended by being called a baby then stop whining like a baby over what was a good but not great season.

I'm not offended. I just think fan policing is lame, especially when the best you can do is call people names.

But let's try something a little more constructive than kneejerk insults. Specifically what criticism have I written here that is inaccurate or unfair, and why?

[MuggsyB]

How many fans actually can go back to when Tex Winters was coaching here?  I'm sure there are a few, but not too many.

A friend of mine signed with Marquette before Tex Winters left to go to Kansas State and Tex asked to join him at Kansas State.  He had his 90th birthday in December. He stayed with Marquette and became a 3 year starter playing on an elite 8 team.

That's badass!  Didn't Tex Winter invent the triangle and two?

[Johnny B]

If that's our down year? Yeah, I'll be happy with that.

This fanbase is so full of whiny, unrealistic babies.

It's not that unrealistic. Jay wright did it. Mark fews doing it. Baylor dudes doing it

[cheebs09]

That's badass!  Didn't Tex Winter invent the triangle and two?

Triangle offense. Triangle and two is a type of defense.

[willie warrior]

How many fans actually can go back to when Tex Winters was coaching here?  I'm sure there are a few, but not too many.

A friend of mine signed with Marquette before Tex Winters left to go to Kansas State and Tex asked to join him at Kansas State.  He had his 90th birthday in December. He stayed with Marquette and became a 3 year starter playing on an elite 8 team.

I go back to Ed Hickey and Don Kojis. Seen it all.

[tower912]

Good point - unrelenting universal defense of a coach can do no wrong has been around forever - what were QoS and Wojo-slurpers called during the Crean and Buzz era?

I have been called a Crean apologist, a Buzz slurper, a Projo.  I belly laughed through all of them.

I root for MU.  I want their coaches to succeed.  I have criticized or been skeptical of all of them.  No coach is or has ever been perfect. 

[DoctorV]

Yea overall this was just a tough season to see coming.

It was a perfect storm of unexpected overachievement early, followed by a much worse than expected slide late and here we are...

It's easy to look at it and point fingers, to blame the offense under Coach Nevada, the roster construction and lack of portal additions by Coach Shaka, and so on and so forth.

The thing is, at the end of the day- and this is in no way to knock the guardians after their amazing careers- Shaka could have never expected the regression that he got from the 3 seniors towards the last few months of the season.
Kam and Joplins shooting from 3 in particular was a staggering collapse. Jop showed up in the dance but this was a season long struggle compared to years past. Stevie just didn't seem himself for several reasons.
In a similar fashion last season Shaka could've never expected Oso to not play up to his standards in the post season.

When you have a system based nearly solely on upper classman leadership, responsibility, and growth to stardom it's very tough to overcome when those guys aren't at their peak.
It's also great when they are at their peak, which we've seen for several seasons in long stretches.

The next part becomes "well when you started to realize there was a problem did you adjust?"
Shaka tried, he went thru a stretch where he played the underclassmen a bunch, to some decent results, and everyone got hopeful that they could contribute.
Then the end of the season came and he returned to his tried and true method of only playing his core, essentially limiting bench usage to the bare minimum, and that didn't help.
-How about changing the offense a bit? Well imo this could've helped some, and I'm sure he considered it but probably thought it would be too tough mid season. He hoped there would be a shooting regression to the mean.

Then there's the "ok well why does it seem like this is happening repeatedly?" part.
-Is it because you're taking guys that have become very good in their roles, eg Joplin as a sharp shooting 6th man or 3&D type of starter, and pushing them to something bigger? Kam was a fine pg this season, All American, but I'd bet that Shaka really regrets not bringing in another pass first pg. Two of the main reasons for Kam and Jops 3p regression had to be TyKos departure and heavier legs due to more responsibility.
-Is it because of over-usage and over-reliance and responsibility placed on these seniors?
-Is it pure dumb luck?
-Is it a mental thing, where both coach and players press themselves so much that they fold under pressure?

There is a lot to unpack in the offseason for Shaka. None of the above even mentions the continued rebounding and getting bullied by the better teams on the schedule issue, or the perceived lack of outside shooting threat issue.
Chase, Ben, Zaide shot decent percentages and Parham/Owens seem like they will be able to shoot ok so we will see. As for the rebounding, bigger length looms (the skinny variety) and if that length can stay on the court it should help a bit on the glass.

Then there is the uncertainty at pg issue...
After typing this I think I need a cocktail and after reading it you might just feel the same

[wadesworld]

I think this season is difficult to reconcile.

MU goes through a gauntlet in the non-conference, ultimately playing five tournament teams (with seed lines of nine or better) and goes 4-1. That included a three game stretch at Maryland, home Purdue, neutral Georgia. Consensus top 10 team.

They get into Big East play, and end up going 3-7 versus tournament teams. No major injuries to speak of, and the eye test going into March just wasn't great.

With 3 outstanding senior guards, all graduating, it probably was this past offseason to get a big in the portal. Shaka stuck to his guns, and for some it's frustrating to not see more development out of his recruits.

Is it realistic for MU to be a 2 seed every year? No, absolutely not, that'd be a ridiculous expectation. Will there be a down season every now and then? Sure, of course. Is it frustrating when MU is a top 10 team for half a season and whimpers out of the tournament? Yes.

Going forward, how does MU build off these last four years? The administration gives the resources to the program (MU spends the 4th most in the country on men's basketball, and that number no longer reflects Wojo's buyout). I understand some are happy with this season's outcome on the whole (totally get it) and some wondering what happened the second half of this year and where do we go from here.

This is all fair, but I think the "MU spends this much money" is lame. We're one of a very few programs that rents our arena.

[brewcity77]

Will Arby's ever open at the Fiserv?

Considering how many vendors were closed for Marquette games, even if Arby's opens at Fiserv, Marquette fans won't be able to get Arby's at games.

[cheebs09]

Considering how many vendors were closed for Marquette games, even if Arby's opens at Fiserv, Marquette fans won't be able to get Arby's at games.

A closed Arby's at an MU loss may be the ultimate suffering. Or they only staff it when MU loses.

[willie warrior]

Yea overall this was just a tough season to see coming.

It was a perfect storm of unexpected overachievement early, followed by a much worse than expected slide late and here we are...

It's easy to look at it and point fingers, to blame the offense under Coach Nevada, the roster construction and lack of portal additions by Coach Shaka, and so on and so forth.

The thing is, at the end of the day- and this is in no way to knock the guardians after their amazing careers- Shaka could have never expected the regression that he got from the 3 seniors towards the last few months of the season.
Kam and Joplins shooting from 3 in particular was a staggering collapse. Jop showed up in the dance but this was a season long struggle compared to years past. Stevie just didn't seem himself for several reasons.
In a similar fashion last season Shaka could've never expected Oso to not play up to his standards in the post season.

When you have a system based nearly solely on upper classman leadership, responsibility, and growth to stardom it's very tough to overcome when those guys aren't at their peak.
It's also great when they are at their peak, which we've seen for several seasons in long stretches.

The next part becomes "well when you started to realize there was a problem did you adjust?"
Shaka tried, he went thru a stretch where he played the underclassmen a bunch, to some decent results, and everyone got hopeful that they could contribute.
Then the end of the season came and he returned to his tried and true method of only playing his core, essentially limiting bench usage to the bare minimum, and that didn't help.
-How about changing the offense a bit? Well imo this could've helped some, and I'm sure he considered it but probably thought it would be too tough mid season. He hoped there would be a shooting regression to the mean.

Then there's the "ok well why does it seem like this is happening repeatedly?" part.
-Is it because you're taking guys that have become very good in their roles, eg Joplin as a sharp shooting 6th man or 3&D type of starter, and pushing them to something bigger? Kam was a fine pg this season, All American, but I'd bet that Shaka really regrets not bringing in another pass first pg. Two of the main reasons for Kam and Jops 3p regression had to be TyKos departure and heavier legs due to more responsibility.
-Is it because of over-usage and over-reliance and responsibility placed on these seniors?
-Is it pure dumb luck?
-Is it a mental thing, where both coach and players press themselves so much that they fold under pressure?

There is a lot to unpack in the offseason for Shaka. None of the above even mentions the continued rebounding and getting bullied by the better teams on the schedule issue, or the perceived lack of outside shooting threat issue.
Chase, Ben, Zaide shot decent percentages and Parham/Owens seem like they will be able to shoot ok so we will see. As for the rebounding, bigger length looms (the skinny variety) and if that length can stay on the court it should help a bit on the glass.

Then there is the uncertainty at pg issue...
After typing this I think I need a cocktail and after reading it you might just feel the same

The outside shooting issue is not "perceived". It is a proble. Just the facts Mam--Joe Friday

[Uncle Rico]

The outside shooting issue is not "perceived". It is a proble. Just the facts Mam--Joe Friday

🤔

[MuggsyB]

Triangle offense. Triangle and two is a type of defense.

Oh...right.  My bad.

[Viper]

And if you want to mope about a 23 win season, that is your right.

Tower, come on. 23 wins, 18 wins...or whatever...it's about ncaa tournament wins. NCAA TOURNAMENT WINS, please. These past four years should be Marquette's floor. Do you claim the COLE acronym?

[Viper]

MU fans have been inordinately patient.  2027 is our 50 year anniversary and we haven't been to a F4 in 22 years.  It's time to get some freaking ballers with the attributes I've listed above. It's a moral imperative and absolutely doable. 

'atta boy!

[tower912]

Tower, come on. 23 wins, 18 wins...or whatever...it's about ncaa tournament wins. NCAA TOURNAMENT WINS, please. These past

Tower, come on. 23 wins, 18 wins...or whatever...it's about ncaa tournament wins. NCAA TOURNAMENT WINS, please. These past four years should be Marquette's floor. Do you claim the COLE acronym?

I fundamentally disagree.

Tower, come on. 23 wins, 18 wins...or whatever...it's about ncaa tournament wins. NCAA TOURNAMENT WINS, please. These past four years should be Marquette's floor. Do you claim the COLE acronym?

98 wins in 4 years is what 95% of college basketball programs dream of.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Tower, come on. 23 wins, 18 wins...or whatever...it's about ncaa tournament wins. NCAA TOURNAMENT WINS, please. These past four years should be Marquette's floor. Do you claim the COLE acronym?

Do you realize more regular season wins will eventually help lead to more tourney wins?

[avid1010]

Do you realize more regular season wins will eventually help lead to more tourney wins?

He doesn't realize sh1t.  He would have fired Jay Wright before he ever won anything...

Mugsy wants better players asap (hot take).

BC Hoopster thinks Shaka red shirted an impact big (for what reason?)...and called for a walk-on to impact a game for us this year (Shaka messed that up as well).

This board is nuts.  Bill Self had a hell of a year.  Pitino flamed out to a coach that hadn't had NCAA success at Kentucky for years.  UNC shouldn't have been in the tourney.  UW's at home.  UCONN can't win without Clinghan.  Baylor hasn't done sh1t lately.  The entire Big 10 hasn't won a championship in 25 years.  Sean Miller won a flippin' play-in game and he's bolting the BEAST for Texas. 

Shaka chooses to stay, wins at a level rarely seen at MU, and does so with class and kids who are loyal to MU.  The only thing I have to say is "Thank You" to Shaka, Kam, Stevie and Jop.  I love watching MU ball again, and I we couldn't ask for better coach.  Thankful he chooses to coach at MU.

[avid1010]

Nm

[GOO]

He doesn't realize sh1t.  He would have fired Jay Wright before he ever won anything...

Mugsy wants better players asap (hot take).

BC Hoopster thinks Shaka red shirted an impact big (for what reason?)...and called for a walk-on to impact a game for us this year (Shaka messed that up as well).

This board is nuts.  Bill Self had a hell of a year.  Pitino flamed out to a coach that hadn't had NCAA success at Kentucky for years.  UNC shouldn't have been in the tourney.  UW's at home.  UCONN can't win without Clinghan.  Baylor hasn't done sh1t lately.  The entire Big 10 hasn't won a championship in 25 years.  Sean Miller won a flippin' play-in game and he's bolting the BEAST for Texas. 

Shaka chooses to stay, wins at a level rarely seen at MU, and does so with class and kids who are loyal to MU.  The only thing I have to say is "Thank You" to Shaka, Kam, Stevie and Jop.  I love watching MU ball again, and I we couldn't ask for better coach.  Thankful he chooses to coach at MU.

Pretty much says it all. We got a great one in Shaka who is unique and puts us in a position to compete with the big schools. Stay unique and build that brand. And he's just getting started.

Makes MU look good and graduates players - something lost in the nil area - where kids will play 4 years and not come close to getting a degree. It's still college to me.

[GOO]

So count me as happy.

[Galway Eagle]

Tower, come on. 23 wins, 18 wins...or whatever...it's about ncaa tournament wins. NCAA TOURNAMENT WINS, please. These past four years should be Marquette's floor. Do you claim the COLE acronym?

What in our entire basketball history outside of Al gives us the right to expect the last four years to be the floor? I've made it easy for you and put a summary of MUBB history in my signature