Shaka's Next 4 Years

[Pakuni]

Every team that didn't win the championship underperformed.  Pitino underperformed.  The Big 10 hasn't won a championship in a quarter century. 

When Butler made back-to-back national title games, they underperformed?

[ATL MU Warrior]

Yeah, that's ridiculous

[cheebs09]

Izzo's previous four years of tourney results haven't looked too different than Shaka's.

[Captain Quette]

Uconn has a player on their roster named Isiah Abraham. His Dad is named Faisel and he was a very good player for Mu. Isiah was a top 100 recruit and had mu in his final 3. He choose uconn despite the legacy connection. I am fairly sure that Marquette was significantly lower than uconn in their money offer. It's not culture or hugs or not being recruited over that pulls in the better players. That is a small part of it versus playing with other great players and money (which weigh more).

Clemson, in football, eschewed the portal and paying players and have not been really relevant since. They have now changed tactics and are paying more for recruits and in nil to stop the slide.

It's basic stupidity for shaka to utilize our culture and "you won't be recruited over" as our primary recruiting strategy. The more sought after Recruits and portal players are not on the same page with that. Sure, we pay pick off a good player or two but we will not have sustained success with top 150 recruits and will have to rely on projects and development of lower rated recruits. This is seriously magnified by lack of interest in the portal, which can assist us when we miss on recruits.

Please don't bring up a former player or two who doesn't fit this because it can work sporadically. It's simply a poor long term strategy.

[panda2.0]

Uconn has a player on their roster named Isiah Abraham. His Dad is named Faisel and he was a very good player for Mu. Isiah was a top 100 recruit and had mu in his final 3. He choose uconn despite the legacy connection. I am fairly sure that Marquette was significantly lower than uconn in their money offer. It's not culture or hugs or not being recruited over that pulls in the better players. That is a small part of it versus playing with other great players and money (which weigh more).

Clemson, in football, eschewed the portal and paying players and have not been really relevant since. They have now changed tactics and are paying more for recruits and in nil to stop the slide.

It's basic stupidity for shaka to utilize our culture and "you won't be recruited over" as our primary recruiting strategy. The more sought after Recruits and portal players are not on the same page with that. Sure, we pay pick off a good player or two but we will not have sustained success with top 150 recruits and will have to rely on projects and development of lower rated recruits. This is seriously magnified by lack of interest in the portal, which can assist us when we miss on recruits.

Please don't bring up a former player or two who doesn't fit this because it can work sporadically. It's simply a poor long term strategy.

It breeds a level of complacency as well.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Uconn has a player on their roster named Isiah Abraham. His Dad is named Faisel and he was a very good player for Mu. Isiah was a top 100 recruit and had mu in his final 3. He choose uconn despite the legacy connection. I am fairly sure that Marquette was significantly lower than uconn in their money offer. It's not culture or hugs or not being recruited over that pulls in the better players. That is a small part of it versus playing with other great players and money (which weigh more).

Clemson, in football, eschewed the portal and paying players and have not been really relevant since. They have now changed tactics and are paying more for recruits and in nil to stop the slide.

It's basic stupidity for shaka to utilize our culture and "you won't be recruited over" as our primary recruiting strategy. The more sought after Recruits and portal players are not on the same page with that. Sure, we pay pick off a good player or two but we will not have sustained success with top 150 recruits and will have to rely on projects and development of lower rated recruits. This is seriously magnified by lack of interest in the portal, which can assist us when we miss on recruits.

Please don't bring up a former player or two who doesn't fit this because it can work sporadically. It's simply a poor long term strategy.

I'm curious...why is it a poor long-term strategy when the approach has led to 4-straight tourney appearances, 2 two-seeds, a Big East regular season championship, and a Big East conference championship?

Why is it a poor strategy when our incoming freshman class is highly-regarded and we are in the mix for a number of highly-ranked high school players right now?

[Pakuni]

I'm curious...why is it a poor long-term strategy when the approach has led to 4-straight tourney appearances, 2 two-seeds, a Big East regular season championship, and a Big East conference championship?

Why is it a poor strategy when our incoming freshman class is highly-regarded and we are in the mix for a number of highly-ranked high school players right now?

The clock on whether Shaka's strategy is brilliant or poor started Saturday.
From a player standpoint, the previous four years' success was driven primarily by transfers - Kolek, OMax, Morsell - and the prior staff's recruits - Lewis, Oso, Kam*, Stevie*.
(Goes without saying Shaka and staff did a better job of coaching them up than the last staff)

Now Shaka gets his chance to show he can replicate that success with a roster built of the high school guys he recruited and developed.


* Yes, I know Shaka had to persuade Kam and Stevie to stick with their commitments, and he deserves credit for that, but it's extremely unlikely either ends up at MU had Wojo not signed them first. There's no indication either was recruited by Texas or had a relationship with Shaka.

[BCHoopster]

I heard that Isiah Abraham said yes to Shaka to come to MU but for some reason I do not know, Shaka did not want him, am I right or wrong?  The kid barely played at UConn this year.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The clock on whether Shaka's strategy is brilliant or poor started Saturday.
From a player standpoint, the previous four years' success was driven primarily by transfers - Kolek, OMax, Morsell - and the prior staff's recruits - Lewis, Oso, Kam*, Stevie*.
(Goes without saying Shaka and staff did a better job of coaching them up than the last staff)

Now Shaka gets his chance to show he can replicate that success with a roster built of the high school guys he recruited and developed.


* Yes, I know Shaka had to persuade Kam and Stevie to stick with their commitments, and he deserves credit for that, but it's extremely unlikely either ends up at MU had Wojo not signed them first. There's no indication either was recruited by Texas or had a relationship with Shaka.

The clock "just starting is ludicrous.  That makes very little sense - he HAD to use transfers his 1st year to actually have a team on the floor.  Look what he developed those transfers into.  To try to discount that is absurd and the same goes for re-recruiting Kam and Stevie.  He very will could have just let those guys move on. 

Please feel free to take a look at the stats from Omax's and Kolek's freshman year and tell me you thought those would be All-conference and/or NBA playes.   

[Pakuni]

The clock "just starting is ludicrous.  That makes very little sense - he HAD to use transfers his 1st year to actually have a team on the floor.  Look what he developed those transfers into.  To try to discount that is absurd and the same goes for re-recruiting Kam and Stevie.  He very will could have just let those guys move on. 

Please feel free to take a look at the stats from Omax's and Kolek's freshman year and tell me you thought those would be All-conference and/or NBA playes.   

I said nothing to discount his development of those players. I wrote just the opposite, that he coached them up better than the previous staff had/would have.

Whether he had to take transfers or not four years ago - his strategy then - is irrelevant to any judgement of his strategy now. They're not the same strategies. You seem to acknowledge that. So judging his strategy now by the success of his strategy then seems ... odd?

This shouldn't be hard. Next year will be the first in which Shaka won't have a roster led by transfers (we think?) or players recruited by the prior staff. Hence, the clock on that personnel strategy - not his coaching ability, the personnel strategy - begins now.

Honestly, it feels like you're choosing to ignore what I actually wrote just to be in an argument.

[tower912]

Next year is a new season with a new team.  Players are going to have new roles and new responsibilities.  This is as it has always been in college sports.  Even if Shaka purges what some scoopers perceive as lesser players and then hits the portal, the fundamental fact that it will be a new year with new players filling new roles remains unchanged. 
  Just as it is at schools that rely heavily on the portal.  Just as it was when Cal was all about 1-and-dones.   Just as it will be at Duke, UConn, Wiscy, BYU.  A new journey, a new adventure, a new opportunity.
  I am looking forward to seeing the young guys take on their new roles and responsibilities.  As it has always been.

[Captain Quette]

Pakuni, am in agreement with you 100%. Past teams had portalers and 1 or 2 developed players (as I said also) but now - all shaka recruits and perhaps no one from portal. Shaka's pure strategy on display next season.

Next year is indeed a new year for mu, just with a lower expectations roster.

Omax and Kolek were transfers, shaka unlikely to take transfers prospectively, so you cannot compare them.

[Uncle Rico]

I'd say, let's see how the next few weeks play out before making any declarations on what the team will look like.

To me, it's very unrealistic there won't be departures from this group beyond the seniors.  Not because of culture, but because nearly everyone will have departures.

I also expect some hard discussions with certain players about their future playing time in Milwaukee.  Discussions Shaka has also had with other players be brought to Marquette.

Finally, he isn't afraid to shake things up with his staff.  When his teams struggled defensively at Texas, he went out and hired Luke Yaklich, who was the architect of Michigan's better defensive teams under John Beilein.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The clock on whether Shaka's strategy is brilliant or poor started Saturday.
From a player standpoint, the previous four years' success was driven primarily by transfers - Kolek, OMax, Morsell - and the prior staff's recruits - Lewis, Oso, Kam*, Stevie*.
(Goes without saying Shaka and staff did a better job of coaching them up than the last staff)

Now Shaka gets his chance to show he can replicate that success with a roster built of the high school guys he recruited and developed.


* Yes, I know Shaka had to persuade Kam and Stevie to stick with their commitments, and he deserves credit for that, but it's extremely unlikely either ends up at MU had Wojo not signed them first. There's no indication either was recruited by Texas or had a relationship with Shaka.

Your argument feels intellectual dishonest to me.

Most of the people here who really want Marquette to dive into the portal want transfers that are fully-formed and ready to make a significant impact immediately.

That certainly was not the case with OMax and TKO. Shaka identified those guys, developed them, and retained them until they were drafted.

Two of Marquette's best regular seasons in the past 25 years were guys Shaka retained and developed.  That level of success wasn't achieved with quick fixes resulting from transfers in.

In terms of approach, I don't see the team that came back for the 22-23 season as a team built around transfers.

It certainly doesn't make sense to me that the retain and develop model for that team should be looked are differently than it is for next season or the season's after that.

[Uncle Rico]

Your argument feels intellectual dishonest to me.

Most of the people here who really want Marquette to dive into the portal want transfers that are fully-formed and ready to make a significant impact immediately.

That certainly was not the case with OMax and TKO. Shaka identified those guys, developed them, and retained them until they were drafted.

Two of Marquette's best regular seasons in the past 25 years were guys Shaka retained and developed.  That level of success wasn't achieved with quick fixes resulting from transfers in.

In terms of approach, I don't see the team that came back for the 22-23 season as a team built around transfers.

It certainly doesn't make sense to me that the retain and develop model for that team should be looked are differently than it is for next season or the season's after that.

And I think there is a disconnect about the portal.  Impact players aren't coming cheap.  I do believe he can and should augment the roster where they're lacking. Or maybe you get lucky and stumble on a John Tonje.

We'll probably never know, but I do wonder if there were expectations of a Sean Jones return at some point.  If there was uncertainty, he should have been more aggressive in pursuing another ball handler.

[Captain Quette]

Kolek was rookie of the year in his prior college basketball season. Omax attended the NBA academy and was a top recruit at Clemson. These two feel more like proven players than developmental players tre, Clark, Hamilton.

Uncle R - you make great points and am hopeful your thoughts are realized.

[Pakuni]

And I think there is a disconnect about the portal.  Impact players aren't coming cheap.  I do believe he can and should augment the roster where they're lacking. Or maybe you get lucky and stumble on a John Tonje.

We'll probably never know, but I do wonder if there were expectations of a Sean Jones return at some point.  If there was uncertainty, he should have been more aggressive in pursuing another ball handler.

I can only speak for myself, but I've never asked or expected Shaka to go out and drop the bag on a big name (which is different than impact) transfer.

Really, it's no different than how smart NFL teams operate. You want to build the core of your team through the draft - the equivalent of high school recruiting - then plug holes through free agency.

This year's team had two notable holes on the bench, either of which could have been filled with an experienced transfer. Shaka chose to fill neither. And before anyone says "You can't get a quality player to come in for a likely bench role," Shaka already proved he can do that.

[brewcity77]

Uconn has a player on their roster named Isiah Abraham. His Dad is named Faisel and he was a very good player for Mu. Isiah was a top 100 recruit and had mu in his final 3. He choose uconn despite the legacy connection. I am fairly sure that Marquette was significantly lower than uconn in their money offer. It's not culture or hugs or not being recruited over that pulls in the better players. That is a small part of it versus playing with other great players and money (which weigh more).

Going to leave it at this, but I'm fairly certain you know nothing about this recruitment.

[Uncle Rico]

I can only speak for myself, but I've never asked or expected Shaka to go out and drop the bag on a big name (which is different than impact) transfer.

Really, it's no different than how smart NFL teams operate. You want to build the core of your team through the draft - the equivalent of high school recruiting - then plug holes through free agency.

This year's team had two notable holes on the bench, either of which could have been filled with an experienced transfer. Shaka chose to fill neither. And before anyone says "You can't get a quality player to come in for a likely bench role," Shaka already proved he can do that.

I don't disagree.  I think depth pieces would have been helpful.  Those don't always workout either, but, hard to say what those do if they're here

[Vander Blue Man Group]

And I think there is a disconnect about the portal.  Impact players aren't coming cheap.  I do believe he can and should augment the roster where they're lacking. Or maybe you get lucky and stumble on a John Tonje.

We'll probably never know, but I do wonder if there were expectations of a Sean Jones return at some point.  If there was uncertainty, he should have been more aggressive in pursuing another ball handler.

While it might seem like it, I'm not anti-portal. If Shaka found another OMax who didn't require a bag and didn't do much his freshman year bring him in. But that's not want the people complaining about really want.

I have to believe he expected Sean back. He also likely expected more out of Tre. So injury and lack of development bit him.

With 15 scholarships I don't mind redshirting project bigs like CH and Clark.

So did they misevaluate Hamilton in regards to what he could contribute?  That very well may be the case. Did he look better in practice based on who he was going up against?

Right now, our bigs behind Ben are big question marks (I'm not including Royce in that group).

Maybe the development we saw in one off-season for Oso, OMax, Kam and TKO was an outlier. I just wonder why people seem so sure we won't see massive leaps from guys like Zaide, Royce, and Owens.

[Uncle Rico]

While it might seem like it, I'm not anti-portal. If Shaka found another OMax who didn't require a bag and didn't do much his freshman year bring him in. But that's not want the people complaining about really want.

I have to believe he expected Sean back. He also likely expected more out of Tre. So injury and lack of development bit him.

With 15 scholarships I don't mind redshirting project bigs like CH and Clark.

So did they misevaluate Hamilton in regards to what he could contribute?  That very well may be the case. Did he look better in practice based on who he was going up against?

Right now, our bigs behind Ben are big question marks (I'm not including Royce in that group).

Maybe the development we saw in one off-season for Oso, OMax, Kam and TKO was an outlier. I just wonder why people seem so sure we won't see massive leaps from guys like Zaide, Royce, and Owens.

Part of it is simply recency bias.  Team has been mediocre at best the last two months, so no way guys can get better.  Also, some fans are just programmed to think the players on their teams suck

[Captain Quette]

Going to leave it at this also and say two sides to every story.

[tower912]

Going to leave it at this also and say two sides to every story.

Which story? 

[willie warrior]

Next year is a new season with a new team.  Players are going to have new roles and new responsibilities.  This is as it has always been in college sports.  Even if Shaka purges what some scoopers perceive as lesser players and then hits the portal, the fundamental fact that it will be a new year with new players filling new roles remains unchanged. 
  Just as it is at schools that rely heavily on the portal.  Just as it was when Cal was all about 1-and-dones.  Just as it will be at Duke, UConn, Wiscy, BYU.  A new journey, a new adventure, a new opportunity.
  I am looking forward to seeing the young guys take on their new roles and responsibilities.  As it has always been.

Yes it will be a new season. Each season ahead is a new season. This season ended on a flame out and the roster next year will be pretty young. Hope these guys mature and get better. However you cannot cloud over the fact that this season was less than the prior two and that next year does not look real promising but will certainly be an "adventure". How do you feel about the program moving downward this year and further next year as compared to the two prior years when Shaka was playing with many players he did not recruit? Do you not see why some are concerned? Do you not believe as you have said Shaka should saddle up or die. I am hoping that Shaka giddyups and further hope that Shaka saddles up a stud and not a mule. May questions and concerns abound.

[tower912]

Clearly, I can't stop others from worrying.  I will remain optimistic, cheerful, and fearless.   At worst, it is a rebuilding year.  At best, it lays the foundation for further greatness.