Shaka's Next 4 Years

[willie warrior]

And the narrative around K was that he couldn't win until he knocked off UNLV in year 10. Jay's F4 was long forgotten and there were calls for him to be fired in 2012, along with fan frustration when he earned 1/2 seeds and bowed out in the first weekend in 2014 & 2015. And Bennett was the poster child for "his teams always flame out" until the insane endgame heroics against Purdue, Auburn, & Texas Tech.

If you really think this is "slight better than Wojoville" I have to assume you were born in 2020. We're in a much, much better place than we were, while still being short of where we want to be. The program is on par with where Buzz had it, probably slightly ahead. The difference is Buzz got the huge shot from DJO (after a regular season worse than any Shaka has had), managed the comeback on Murray State, and had that final frenetic minute against Davidson.

Oh boy. This will now start more comparisons of Shaka to Wright, K, etc. Would like to see him get to Al s level, but that would require a different strategy. Meanwhile the Hurleys, Pitinos, McDermotts are quickly passing us by.

[warriors141]

The question is: do you want how this season went to become a pattern?

[willie warrior]

And the narrative around K was that he couldn't win until he knocked off UNLV in year 10. Jay's F4 was long forgotten and there were calls for him to be fired in 2012, along with fan frustration when he earned 1/2 seeds and bowed out in the first weekend in 2014 & 2015. And Bennett was the poster child for "his teams always flame out" until the insane endgame heroics against Purdue, Auburn, & Texas Tech.

If you really think this is "slight better than Wojoville" I have to assume you were born in 2020. We're in a much, much better place than we were, while still being short of where we want to be. The program is on par with where Buzz had it, probably slightly ahead. The difference is Buzz got the huge shot from DJO (after a regular season worse than any Shaka has had), managed the comeback on Murray State, and had that final frenetic minute against Davidson.

Oh boy. This will now start more comparisons of Shaka to Wright, K, etc. Would like to see him get to Al s level, but that would require a different strategy. Meanwhile the Hurleys, Pitinos, McDermotts are quickly passing us by.

There's nothing magic or special about coaching in March. You keep getting high seeds to give yourself the best chance at making a run,  eventually it will happen.

If you think MU would ever fire a coach that maskes the tourney every year,  you would be mistaken

You are right about that. But next years roster is not a tourney roster, unless Freshmen come through. Shaka does not play freshmen much.

[brewcity77]

Oh boy. This will now start more comparisons of Shaka to Wright, K, etc. Would like to see him get to Al s level, but that would require a different strategy. Meanwhile the Hurleys, Pitinos, McDermotts are quickly passing us by.

It's just the reality that until a coach cuts down nets in April, they will always be regarded as an underachiever. Hell, people still say that about Mark Few, and he's going for a 10th straight S16 with two runner up appearances.

Maybe Shaka will never get there, but he could go to the next five Final Fours and if he doesn't cut nets at one of them, you'll still be bitching about what he can't do rather than acknowledging what he did.

[Galway Eagle]

The only Buzz NCAA underperformance was a two pt loss in 2010. 

Umm I think you missed us getting embarrassed by a Syracuse team in 2013.

He won a first round game without Dominic in 2009.  His teams continued to be tough, clutch, and poised when the season hung in the balance. 

Poor buzz only had 3 of the best non Al players in program history one of which was an all American to rely on. And what do you mean hung tough when the season was in the balance? With Junior Lazar, senior Jerel and Wes he lost the last 3 games, went 1-1 in the big east tournament, and then lost to Mizzou rapier getting James back. I didn't realize 2-5 is an acceptable record with Jerel, Wes and Lazar

[Galway Eagle]

The question is: do you want how this season went to become a pattern?

Absolutely not. I think we could stand another mid season and then expect a return to a top 5 seed. No "just missed the tournament" not if you aren't willing to take transfers.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sure they do and are.  Another NCAAT underperformance will do that.  Been a long time since even close to this many Wojo references

Were not nearly good enough of a program to be turning ours noses up at a 7 seed season.

[AlienWarrior]

Championship , it's been almost 50 years!

[HutchwasClutch]

Umm I think you missed us getting embarrassed by a Syracuse team in 2013.


Poor buzz only had 3 of the best non Al players in program history one of which was an all American to rely on. And what do you mean hung tough when the season was in the balance? With Junior Lazar, senior Jerel and Wes he lost the last 3 games, went 1-1 in the big east tournament, and then lost to Mizzou rapier getting James back. I didn't realize 2-5 is an acceptable record with Jerel, Wes and Lazar

They were a 3 seed and made the E8 in 2013. Do I actually need to expand to establish not an underperformance? 

The other point about record after losing Dominic and having a shell Dominic against 3 seed Missouri is even dumber. 

[HutchwasClutch]

Were not nearly good enough of a program to be turning ours noses up at a 7 seed season.

Oh, ok COLE.  How about a 3.5 to 4.5 pt favorite losing by 9?  We aren't "nearly good enough" to expect better than that either? 

[Galway Eagle]

Were not nearly good enough of a program to be turning ours noses up at a 7 seed season.

Since they started seeding teams in 1979 we've been better than a 7 seed 13 times.

79, 94, 96, 02, 03, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 19, 23, 24

My takeaway is a program like Marquette needs a conference POY to get there given 8 of those had Mac, Wade, Crowder, Markus or Kolek.

[PointWarrior]

Why are we even comparing and bringing up the Wojo years? Is that the standard for comparing ourselves to? Or should it be similar spending programs?

The CoS uses the "Wojo comparison" as a gaslight to obscure their identity as previously being "Wojo-slurpers."

[Galway Eagle]

They were a 3 seed and made the E8 in 2013. Do I actually need to expand to establish not an underperformance? 

The other point about record after losing Dominic and having a shell Dominic against 3 seed Missouri is even dumber.

If you're going to complain a out being a 2 seed losing to NC State in the sweet 16 and not complains about buzz's 3 seed losing to 7 seed Florida in the sweet 16 or 4 seed Syracuse in the Elite 8 then yeah you need to admit you're cherry picking how you look at it.

As far as the other point it absolutely is not. Did we have a second team all American? Yes. Is Junior lazar > chase yes. Is senior Wes > Jop yes. You can't beat your chest about that team with most talent and experience and slam this one with less.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't

Oh, ok COLE.  How about a 3.5 to 4.5 pt favorite losing by 9?  We aren't "nearly good enough" to expect better than that either? 

I don't overreact to single game results postively or negatively.

[HutchwasClutch]

If you're going to complain a out being a 2 seed losing to NC State in the sweet 16 and not complains about buzz's 3 seed losing to 7 seed Florida in the sweet 16 or 4 seed Syracuse in the Elite 8 then yeah you need to admit you're cherry picking how you look at it.

As far as the other point it absolutely is not. Did we have a second team all American? Yes. Is Junior lazar > chase yes. Is senior Wes > Jop yes. You can't beat your chest about that team with most talent and experience and slam this one with less.

You don't lose a 4 year starter and your point guard at the most critical part of the season and not feel a tremendous impact.  Is this the hill you're really going to die on?  A loss that came down to the wire against a 3 seed in the second round?? 

NC State was a dumpster fire loss to an 11 seed. That's not close to what we lost to in 2012 or 13 and the comparison is ridiculous.

[HutchwasClutch]

I don't
I don't overreact to single game results postively or negatively.

No, the truth is you don't criticize who's in charge.  You refused to criticize Wojo either.  One of the slurpers that Point noted elsewhere. 

[Galway Eagle]

You don't lose a 4 year starter at the most critical part of the season and not feel a tremendous impact.  Is this the hill you're really going to die on?  A loss that came down to the wire against a 3 seed in the second round?? 

NC State was a dumpster fire loss to an 11 seed. That's not close to what we lost to in 2012 or 13 and the comparison is ridiculous.

Goal posts moving. It's gone from buzz under performed once to realizing he got upset by lower seeds two more times. Now those upsets just were t as bad because "I feel like it!" I'm as unhappy with the season as the next person but your moving goalposts and if you took a Time Machine to the 70s you'd be screaming about how terrible Al was outside of 74 and maybe 76.

[HutchwasClutch]

Goal posts moving. It's gone from buzz under performed once to realizing he got upset by lower seeds two more times. Now those upsets just were t as bad because "I feel like it!" I'm as unhappy with the season as the next person but your moving goalposts and negativity is constantly so toxic that if you took a Time Machine to the 70s you'd be screaming about how terrible Al was outside of 74 and maybe 76.

I've been responding to your arguments! 

[PointWarrior]

I don't
I don't overreact to single game results postively or negatively.

At least you been consistent in your reaction to each of the 4 shitty post-season performances (CoS).

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No, the truth is you don't criticize who's in charge.  You refused to criticize Wojo either.  One of the slurpers that Point noted elsewhere. 

I criticize the coach plenty. He should have known that Sean was going to be out and that Hamilton wasnt ready. Not addressing both of those limited our ceiling. The thing I like about Shaka is that he is reflective.  I trust he will learn from this.

I just recognize that weve gotten a 7 seed or better 13 times in 46 years. A performance well inside the top 3rd is not something that needs defending. I'm not satisfied,  I want more.  I still think it's reasonable to believe that Shaka can get us there

[HutchwasClutch]

Goal posts moving. It's gone from buzz under performed once to realizing he got upset by lower seeds two more times. Now those upsets just were t as bad because "I feel like it!" I'm as unhappy with the season as the next person but your moving goalposts and if you took a Time Machine to the 70s you'd be screaming about how terrible Al was outside of 74 and maybe 76.

To help you further:

Lost in S16 as a 3 in 2012- performance at our seed.

Lost in E8 as a 3 in 2013- out performance of our seed. 

Lost in S16 as a 2 last year- underperformance of our seed, compounded by a dumpster fire performance against an 11 seed that needed a miraculous conference tournament to have even made the field. 

So your best argument is the gigantic, unheard of upsets of a 4 and 7 beating a 3 when they performed at and above their seed line both years? 

[79Warrior]

Slightly better than Wojo is nonsense.  Look up cataclysmic disaster in the dictionary.  That's where we were under Wojo. 

Agree. Massive upgrade over Wojo.

[dgies9156]

The question in this thread is a really good one because it spells out what rabid fans expect from the program. Coach Shaka has spoiled us -- we're back to expecting great things annually. In effect, he has purged the Wojo, Dukiet, Dean and other years from our systems.

We were plagued this year by lack of bench strength and inside power. St. John's, UConn, Creighton and now New Mexico just bullied us inside. Also, we simply wore down because Coach Shaka had limited confidence in his bench.

Maybe I'm an outlier but if I've learned anything in life, there's what you tell the public (called "spin") and what you really do. Of course, Coach Shaka isn't going to telegraph any portal moves because he doesn't want to upset the returning, existing team, who he's counting on for development for the core of next year's team.

I'm not convinced Coach Shaka won't be in the portal, if he finds the right person for his team. He's got the "relationships" and "growth" down. What we need is Victory in March and April -- and Coach Shaka knows that better than any of us.

[5DollarPitcher]

How does this conversation parlay to the "NCAAT is a crapshoot just gotta get there with a decent seed" crowd that hammered me last year?

This is antithetical to that.

I am team Shaka Lifetime Contract. The tourney success will come.

He should dip into the portal from time to time though. I think that piece was an effort to keep Kam / Oso / Tyler together.

[MuggsyB]

The question in this thread is a really good one because it spells out what rabid fans expect from the program. Coach Shaka has spoiled us -- we're back to expecting great things annually. In effect, he has purged the Wojo, Dukiet, Dean and other years from our systems.

We were plagued this year by lack of bench strength and inside power. St. John's, UConn, Creighton and now New Mexico just bullied us inside. Also, we simply wore down because Coach Shaka had limited confidence in his bench.

Maybe I'm an outlier but if I've learned anything in life, there's what you tell the public (called "spin") and what you really do. Of course, Coach Shaka isn't going to telegraph any portal moves because he doesn't want to upset the returning, existing team, who he's counting on for development for the core of next year's team.

I'm not convinced Coach Shaka won't be in the portal, if he finds the right person for his team. He's got the "relationships" and "growth" down. What we need is Victory in March and April -- and Coach Shaka knows that better than any of us.

We have to get a knock down shooter brother dgies.  I think it's possible ZL, DO, and RP will take big jumps, but there are a lot of question marks.  It really depends how good our Frosh are.