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MU82

College enrollment rebounds, surpassing pre-pandemic levels

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2025/01/23/college-enrollment-increase-pandemic/?

Student headcount at the nation's colleges and universities has rebounded, according to a new national report, with total enrollment numbers higher than in fall 2019, before the coronavirus pandemic disrupted higher education.

The report from the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center, released Thursday, found undergraduate enrollment neared 16 million in fall 2024, while graduate enrollment climbed to 3.2 million. All told, total enrollment was up 4.5 percent in the fall.

Thursday's report arrives a week after the Clearinghouse said a "methodological error" skewed its preliminary calculation of the number of first-year students who enrolled in fall 2024. The center initially said freshman enrollment dropped 5 percent, but later discovered that some college freshmen were incorrectly labeled as dual-enrolled in high school and college classes.

The Clearinghouse has been a trusted source for enrollment trends in higher education because it collects information from 97 percent of the 3,600 degree-granting institutions in the country. The center produces enrollment data sooner than the Education Department, which typically has a nearly year-long time lag.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

warriorchick

I would love to see that data broken out between public and private institutions.
Have some patience, FFS.

tower912

The long term demographics are not as good.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Galway Eagle

Would like to see break downs of

first generation college students vs at least one parent went to college

Public vs private

Online vs commuter vs traditional

Part vs full time

Jr college vs 4 yr
He's the one
Who likes all our pretty songs
And he likes to sing along
And he likes to shoot his gun
But he knows not what it means

The Sultan

The schools benefitting the most are flagship publics, and elite privates. Many schools are fine.  A LOT are struggling.

And tower is right, long term demographics are pretty bad.
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

lostpassword

Quote from: The Sultan on January 23, 2025, 03:28:06 PMThe schools benefitting the most are flagship publics, and elite privates.

Have the rest simply priced themselves out?  Or is it more nuanced than that?

muwarrior69

Quote from: lostpassword on January 23, 2025, 07:34:05 PMHave the rest simply priced themselves out?  Or is it more nuanced than that?


I can afford to send my Grand Daughter to Marquette, but why would I when she can earn a Bachelor's Degree at Rutgers for one third the cost.

warriorchick

Quote from: lostpassword on January 23, 2025, 07:34:05 PMHave the rest simply priced themselves out?  Or is it more nuanced than that?


The schools that are in the most trouble are the 2nd and 3rd-tier private schools.

Who in their right mind would spend $200K+ to send their kid to a school that no one outside the alums and the locals have heard of?

It's the reason there aren't Holiday Inns anymore. They languished in the middle of the market. People are either going cheaper or going better.
Have some patience, FFS.

MU82

Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 23, 2025, 08:06:00 PMI can afford to send my Grand Daughter to Marquette, but why would I when she can earn a Bachelor's Degree at Rutgers for one third the cost.

Hasn't been this been the case for decades?

20 years ago, our daughter chose to go to Lawrence when she could have gone to Illinois (in-state tuition) at a third the cost (or less). Why? For several reasons. There are always reasons.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: lostpassword on January 23, 2025, 07:34:05 PMHave the rest simply priced themselves out?  Or is it more nuanced than that?


That's s big part of it. Shifting demographics is another major concern. The 2008 recession changed how people thought about starting a family. Middle and upper class families started having less kids.  Theres also been a population shift from university heavy midwest and northeast. Basically theres less and less high school students with the typical demographics of a college applicant.

There are other reasons too but I think talking about them would earn me scoopcation
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


The Sultan

Quote from: warriorchick on January 23, 2025, 08:46:16 PMThe schools that are in the most trouble are the 2nd and 3rd-tier private schools.

Who in their right mind would spend $200K+ to send their kid to a school that no one outside the alums and the locals have heard of?

It's the reason there aren't Holiday Inns anymore. They languished in the middle of the market. People are either going cheaper or going better.

This 100%. And the schools in trouble are for-profit or they are poorly endowed and have a ton of debt.
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

The Sultan

Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 23, 2025, 08:06:00 PMI can afford to send my Grand Daughter to Marquette, but why would I when she can earn a Bachelor's Degree at Rutgers for one third the cost.

Marquette is absolutely fine regardless if your grand daughter goes there or not.
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

Uncle Rico

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 23, 2025, 09:08:19 PMThat's s big part of it. Shifting demographics is another major concern. The 2008 recession changed how people thought about starting a family. Middle and upper class families started having less kids.  Theres also been a population shift from university heavy midwest and northeast. Basically theres less and less high school students with the typical demographics of a college applicant.

There are other reasons too but I think talking about them would earn me scoopcation

You mean a segment of the population that prefers ignorance over education and have spent decades doing everything in their power to discredit education?

Support Lutheran Family Services

Hards Alumni

Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 24, 2025, 07:17:03 AMYou mean a segment of the population that prefers ignorance over education and have spent decades doing everything in their power to discredit education?



Yeah, and a couple of them got banned from the world's premier basketball message board!

Uncle Rico

Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 24, 2025, 07:43:31 AMYeah, and a couple of them got banned from the world's premier basketball message board!

Cancel culture ran amok!  Am patiently waiting for the new board (whoops, Lenny hates that joke) so I can a more inclusive bored
Support Lutheran Family Services

Billy Hoyle

#15
Quote from: The Sultan on January 23, 2025, 10:03:23 PMMarquette is absolutely fine regardless if your grand daughter goes there or not.

I don't know if I'd say "absolutely fine" as we have been running a deficit, but MU (and larger private schools with similar profiles, like Creighton, Santa Clara, Denver U, Gonzaga, etc.) will be able to adapt and survive due to their national reach, location in cities with access to professional development opportunities, academic reputation, and larger alumni networks. The small liberal arts schools with smaller endowments with lesser academic reputations like Ripon, St. Norbert, Knox, Alma, etc that do not have a niche to attract students (e.g. Hillsdale, Colorado College, St. John's Maryland and New Mexico) are going to be in big trouble moving forward as they won't be able to attract and retain students as parents aren't going to be able to justify the cost combined with the limited return on investment.

Since 2020, 41 colleges have shut down and 32 have merged with other schools. 14 colleges shut down after 2023 alone (Cardinal Stritch up the road), with more announcing they are closing (e.g. Fontbonne in St. Louis) or being restructured or merged with another school, while others are selling off property to stay viable: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/business/financial-health/2023/12/21/look-back-college-closures-and-mergers-2023

Wednesday Sonoma State in CA announced huge cuts to academic programs and elimination of athletics (they're D2 - https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/sonoma-state-ssu-rohnert-park-cuts/). Even public schools are not immune. As mentioned above, the flagship schools and those in major cities will do fine, but schools like UW-Superior and Central Michigan, and similar institutions are in trouble too. (https://www.house.mi.gov/hfa/PDF/FiscalSnapshot/HigherEd_10_Year_University_Enrollment_Trends_Jan2023.pdf)
"Kevin thinks 'mother' is half a word." - Mike Deane

muwarrior69

Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 24, 2025, 07:43:31 AMYeah, and a couple of them got banned from the world's premier basketball message board!

They also have Scoop ankle bracelets, but no one wants to go to Scoop Jail.

TallTitan34

Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 23, 2025, 08:06:00 PMI can afford to send my Grand Daughter to Marquette, but why would I when she can earn a Bachelor's Degree at Rutgers for one third the cost.

I got a full ride to MSOE, a partial scholarship to Bradley, and not a single cent from Marquette.  I liked Marquette the best on my visit (and they had just come off a Final Four...) so I went with that. 

I was fortunate to have a good chunk paid for using an inheritance from my grandparents, but I still had years of student loans to pay off when I could have just gone to MSOE.

Fun Fact: On my visit to Marquette I saw Tulane's Dan Fitzgerald drop 16 points on Marquette.

Scoop Snoop

Towns with small colleges have long been promoted as great places to live in without the expenses of larger cities. When a college closes the local economy will take a big hit. I would think that it would be very difficult to repurpose the buildings and land. Any success stories that scoopers have heard of?
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

"All of our answers are unencumbered by the thought process." NPR's Click and Clack of Car Talk.

Hards Alumni

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 24, 2025, 08:48:06 AMI don't know if I'd say "absolutely fine" as we have been running a deficit, but MU (and larger private schools with similar profiles, like Creighton, Santa Clara, Denver U, Gonzaga, etc.) will be able to adapt and survive due to their national reach, location in cities with access to professional development opportunities, academic reputation, and larger alumni networks. The small liberal arts schools with smaller endowments with lesser academic reputations like Ripon, St. Norbert, Knox, Alma, etc that do not have a niche to attract students (e.g. Hillsdale, Colorado College, St. John's Maryland and New Mexico) are going to be in big trouble moving forward as they won't be able to attract and retain students as parents aren't going to be able to justify the cost combined with the limited return on investment.

Since 2020, 41 colleges have shut down and 32 have merged with other schools. 14 colleges shut down after 2023 alone (Cardinal Stritch up the road), with more announcing they are closing (e.g. Fontbonne in St. Louis) or being restructured or merged with another school, while others are selling off property to stay viable: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/business/financial-health/2023/12/21/look-back-college-closures-and-mergers-2023

Wednesday Sonoma State in CA announced huge cuts to academic programs and elimination of athletics (they're D2 - https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/sonoma-state-ssu-rohnert-park-cuts/). Even public schools are not immune. As mentioned above, the flagship schools and those in major cities will do fine, but schools like UW-Superior and Central Michigan, and similar institutions are in trouble too. (https://www.house.mi.gov/hfa/PDF/FiscalSnapshot/HigherEd_10_Year_University_Enrollment_Trends_Jan2023.pdf)

Let me know when a school of note closes its doors.

Billy Hoyle

#20
Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 24, 2025, 09:27:03 AMTowns with small colleges have long been promoted as great places to live in without the expenses of larger cities. When a college closes the local economy will take a big hit. I would think that it would be very difficult to repurpose the buildings and land. Any success stories that scoopers have heard of?

Not a small-town college, but here's one example:
https://www.opb.org/article/2022/03/01/concordia-university-portland-campus-new-university-of-oregon-institute/

Here is a small town school being repurposed in an interesting way: https://www.wvnews.com/theet/news/five-months-in-battlers-knob-transforming-alderson-broaddus-west-virginia-campus-into-service-centered-development/article_86c421a4-5f0d-11ef-ae56-93434fd021ce.html
"Kevin thinks 'mother' is half a word." - Mike Deane

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 24, 2025, 09:27:03 AMTowns with small colleges have long been promoted as great places to live in without the expenses of larger cities. When a college closes the local economy will take a big hit. I would think that it would be very difficult to repurpose the buildings and land. Any success stories that scoopers have heard of?

Not a small town but Cardinal Stritch is being converted to a private grade/high school.
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


Shaka Shart

Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 24, 2025, 07:43:31 AMYeah, and a couple of them got banned from the world's premier basketball message board!

Harvard will not be fine
" Ya gotta take the Scout board with a grain of salt. They fly off the handle too much. Besides you won't get banned over here for sayin', Crean farts in the bathtub." - 4everwarriors

Re: Who's Buzz in Memphis for?

February 17th, 2012

Shaka Shart

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 24, 2025, 10:12:16 AMNot a small town but Cardinal Stritch is being converted to a private grade/high school.

Marquette was screwed when they didn't acquire and move to this campus location.
" Ya gotta take the Scout board with a grain of salt. They fly off the handle too much. Besides you won't get banned over here for sayin', Crean farts in the bathtub." - 4everwarriors

Re: Who's Buzz in Memphis for?

February 17th, 2012

warriorchick

Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 24, 2025, 09:27:03 AMTowns with small colleges have long been promoted as great places to live in without the expenses of larger cities. When a college closes the local economy will take a big hit. I would think that it would be very difficult to repurpose the buildings and land. Any success stories that scoopers have heard of?

I spent my Freshman year at St. Joseph's College in Rensselaer, Indiana.  It was at the head of the wave of closures, shutting its doors in 2017.  I drove through Rensselaer a couple of years later, and it was a literal ghost town.  I had heard that many faculty and staff walked away from their homes because there was no one to sell them to.

However, they recently reopened as a trade school.  It was actually a smart move, as most of the local high school graduates do not go to traditional four-year programs, and the closest community colleges are at least an hour's drive.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/tech-innovation/alternative-credentials/2024/09/03/saint-josephs-indiana-shifts-workforce
Have some patience, FFS.

The Sultan

#25
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 24, 2025, 08:48:06 AMThe small liberal arts schools with smaller endowments with lesser academic reputations like Ripon, St. Norbert, Knox, Alma, etc that do not have a niche to attract students

...

Since 2020, 41 colleges have shut down and 32 have merged with other schools. 14 colleges shut down after 2023 alone (Cardinal Stritch up the road), with more announcing they are closing (e.g. Fontbonne in St. Louis) or being restructured or merged with another school, while others are selling off property to stay viable: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/business/financial-health/2023/12/21/look-back-college-closures-and-mergers-2023


Right but a lot of those colleges are very different than a school like Knox.  I know a fair amount about that school, and while they have had a dip in enrollment, they have a $168 million endowment and very little debt. There are a number of schools that fit that profile - managed well financially, and can weather and/or have planned for, dips in enrollment.  Knox doing well with 1,100 students. If you can get by with that few students, a $168 million endowment goes a long way toward making competitive aid offers - especially when you don't have a lot of debt to deal with.

Then there are schools like Valparaiso. They have everything you would need to have - decent endowment, engineering, nursing, business programs, proximity to Chicago - are so indebted that they have little ability to offer competitive aid packages so enrollment starts to suffer as well.

A lot of the schools listed in that article were poorly endowed, and in the case of a number of the Catholic schools listed, were sponsored by orders who are dying out and need the College assets to cover issues like long-term care. (Cardinal Stritch definitely fell into that category.)
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

Scoop Snoop

Quote from: warriorchick on January 24, 2025, 11:03:38 AMI spent my Freshman year at St. Joseph's College in Rensselaer, Indiana.  It was at the head of the wave of closures, shutting its doors in 2017.  I drove through Rensselaer a couple of years later, and it was a literal ghost town.  I had heard that many faculty and staff walked away from their homes because there was no one to sell them to.

However, they recently reopened as a trade school.  It was actually a smart move, as most of the local high school graduates do not go to traditional four-year programs, and the closest community colleges are at least an hour's drive.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/tech-innovation/alternative-credentials/2024/09/03/saint-josephs-indiana-shifts-workforce

Two of my brothers went to St. Joseph, and I remember going there as a kid when our family visited them. My oldest brother graduated from there and the other brother was there for his freshman year and then, having decided he wanted to become a doctor, transferred to Marquette as an undergrad and graduated from the final MU Med school class. Another brother and I followed the path to Marquette as well as one of my nieces, the daughter of my brother and MU alum SIL.

Glad to hear that the school is reborn and hopefully the town has or will revive. 
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

"All of our answers are unencumbered by the thought process." NPR's Click and Clack of Car Talk.

Shaka Shart

Quote from: warriorchick on January 24, 2025, 11:03:38 AMI spent my Freshman year at St. Joseph's College in Rensselaer, Indiana.  It was at the head of the wave of closures, shutting its doors in 2017.  I drove through Rensselaer a couple of years later, and it was a literal ghost town.  I had heard that many faculty and staff walked away from their homes because there was no one to sell them to.

However, they recently reopened as a trade school.  It was actually a smart move, as most of the local high school graduates do not go to traditional four-year programs, and the closest community colleges are at least an hour's drive.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/tech-innovation/alternative-credentials/2024/09/03/saint-josephs-indiana-shifts-workforce

" Many local residents, including faculty members, lost their jobs. A nearby Arby's that relied on college students' business shut down."

Dire
" Ya gotta take the Scout board with a grain of salt. They fly off the handle too much. Besides you won't get banned over here for sayin', Crean farts in the bathtub." - 4everwarriors

Re: Who's Buzz in Memphis for?

February 17th, 2012

GB Warrior

Quote from: Shaka Shart on January 24, 2025, 11:47:39 AM" Many local residents, including faculty members, lost their jobs. A nearby Arby's that relied on college students' business shut down."

Dire

Where are kids supposed to learn about pain, suffering, how awful and stupid the real world is

Edit: realized I posted this on scoop so I answered my own question

Billy Hoyle

Quote from: Scoop Snoop on January 24, 2025, 11:27:01 AMTwo of my brothers went to St. Joseph, and I remember going there as a kid when our family visited them. My oldest brother graduated from there and the other brother was there for his freshman year and then, having decided he wanted to become a doctor, transferred to Marquette as an undergrad and graduated from the final MU Med school class. Another brother and I followed the path to Marquette as well as one of my nieces, the daughter of my brother and MU alum SIL.

Glad to hear that the school is reborn and hopefully the town has or will revive. 

Fun personal story about St. Joseph's. The summer before my freshman year at MU my buddies and I would go to a restaurant every Thursday for sports trivia. The last night I was there the guy running it came up to us to invite us to be in the tournament the next week and I told him "I can't I leave for college next week" and told him I was going to MU. He got excited and said "That's where I wanted to go, but on my tour, with my parents, we were in the beer can shaped dorm and when the elevator opened up and these guys got off carrying empty kegs. My parents immediately said I couldn't go there and I ended up going to St. Joseph's where we probably drank even more."

It turned out he was classmates with my dad's partner's daughter and their dorm caught on fire during the winter break so the residents were moved into the priest's residence where a keg was kept in the entryway with a jar for donations.  ;D  ;D

St. Joseph's was also the only college athletic program that had "Pumas" as a mascot.
"Kevin thinks 'mother' is half a word." - Mike Deane

Scoop Snoop

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 24, 2025, 12:02:03 PMFun personal story about St. Joseph's. The summer before my freshman year at MU my buddies and I would go to a restaurant every Thursday for sports trivia. The last night I was there the guy running it came up to us to invite us to be in the tournament the next week and I told him "I can't I leave for college next week" and told him I was going to MU. He got excited and said "That's where I wanted to go, but on my tour, with my parents, we were in the beer can shaped dorm and when the elevator opened up and these guys got off carrying empty kegs. My parents immediately said I couldn't go there and I ended up going to St. Joseph's where we probably drank even more."

It turned out he was classmates with my dad's partner's daughter and their dorm caught on fire during the winter break so the residents were moved into the priest's residence where a keg was kept in the entryway with a jar for donations.  ;D  ;D

St. Joseph's was also the only college athletic program that had "Pumas" as a mascot.

Long before it was politically incorrect to have caged animal mascots on campus, St.Joe's had a puma that snarled at anyone who got close to the cage.

My oldest brother and his friends would buy unpasteurized apple cider and ferment it.

The town was so isolated and unexciting that George Halas, coach and owner of the Bears, rented the college during the summer for training and scrimmages. He didn't want his players to be able to stay out all night drinking and whoring.   
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

"All of our answers are unencumbered by the thought process." NPR's Click and Clack of Car Talk.

warriorchick

Quote from: Shaka Shart on January 24, 2025, 11:47:39 AM" Many local residents, including faculty members, lost their jobs. A nearby Arby's that relied on college students' business shut down."

Dire

I only wish there was an Arby's when I went there! There was literally no place off campus within walking distance to eat. Fortunately, they had great food on campus. It was the best I have ever eaten in a college cafeteria, even if you were in danger of Brian Piccolo putting mashed potatoes and gravy on your seat.  ;)
Have some patience, FFS.

Coleman

#32
Quote from: warriorchick on January 23, 2025, 08:46:16 PMThe schools that are in the most trouble are the 2nd and 3rd-tier private schools.

Who in their right mind would spend $200K+ to send their kid to a school that no one outside the alums and the locals have heard of?

It's the reason there aren't Holiday Inns anymore. They languished in the middle of the market. People are either going cheaper or going better.

I mean it's all relative, but you could very easily say Marquette is a second tier private school. We are not in the same league as the Ivies, Northwestern, UChicago, WashU, etc.

Not saying Marquette is necessarily at risk. I think we agree on the types of schools that are... the Viterbos, Ripons, etc

Coleman

Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 24, 2025, 09:20:42 AMI got a full ride to MSOE, a partial scholarship to Bradley, and not a single cent from Marquette.  I liked Marquette the best on my visit (and they had just come off a Final Four...) so I went with that. 

I was fortunate to have a good chunk paid for using an inheritance from my grandparents, but I still had years of student loans to pay off when I could have just gone to MSOE.

Fun Fact: On my visit to Marquette I saw Tulane's Dan Fitzgerald drop 16 points on Marquette.

Not sure I would have made the same decision but to each their own!

Marquette gave me the most money. So it was an easy decision for me.

BrewCity83

Quote from: warriorchick on January 24, 2025, 11:03:38 AMHowever, they recently reopened as a trade school.  It was actually a smart move, as most of the local high school graduates do not go to traditional four-year programs, and the closest community colleges are at least an hour's drive.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/tech-innovation/alternative-credentials/2024/09/03/saint-josephs-indiana-shifts-workforce

I saw that movie, with bicycles..."Breaking Away"
The shaka sign, sometimes known as "hang loose", is a gesture of friendly intent often associated with Hawaii and surf culture.

The Sultan

"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

warriorchick

Quote from: BrewCity83 on January 27, 2025, 03:33:11 PMI saw that movie, with bicycles..."Breaking Away"

Actually, St. Joe's had its own Little 500, except they had go-carts.
Have some patience, FFS.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: The Sultan on January 27, 2025, 06:15:24 PMIn other news, Texas A&M is pausing further student growth to "right size" the campus.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/quick-takes/2025/01/27/texas-am-pause-enrollment-growth-rightsize

Turns out growing by 31,000 students in 16 years can cause some growing pains.
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


TallTitan34

This pause on Federal loans and grants could make college enrollments get messy here shortly.  Seems to be some confusion right now on if student loans and grants are included or not.

Jockey

Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 28, 2025, 08:11:59 AMThis pause on Federal loans and grants could make college enrollments get messy here shortly.  Seems to be some confusion right now on if student loans and grants are included or not.

Does Marquette have DEI?

Billy Hoyle

#40
Quote from: Coleman on January 26, 2025, 11:32:21 AMI mean it's all relative, but you could very easily say Marquette is a second tier private school. We are not in the same league as the Ivies, Northwestern, UChicago, WashU, etc.

Not saying Marquette is necessarily at risk. I think we agree on the types of schools that are... the Viterbos, Ripons, etc

Marquette has a national name and alumni base. While we may be "second tier" to the schools you named above we are still in a very good position to remain strong. The university has focused on developing specialty programs and has built modern facilities that will attract students in the long term and help justify the higher cost. Being in Milwaukee and the professional development opportunities other schools cannot provide is a further boost to our staying strong well into the future.
"Kevin thinks 'mother' is half a word." - Mike Deane

Coleman

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 28, 2025, 09:12:10 AMMarquette has a national name and alumni base. While we may be "second tier" to the schools you named above we are still in a very good position to remain strong. The university has focused on developing specialty programs and has built modern facilities that will attract students in the long term and help justify the higher cost. Being in Milwaukee and the professional development opportunities other schools cannot provide is a further boost to our staying strong well into the future.

Yeah no argument and my post said nothing that is to the contrary

Billy Hoyle

Quote from: Coleman on January 28, 2025, 09:43:33 AMYeah no argument and my post said nothing that is to the contrary

was simply agreeing with you with some examples of how MU has positioned itself to be stronger in the face of the upcoming enrollment cliff and continued population loss in the Midwest. I think the addition of the PA program in the College of Health Sciences was a great move. Some programs in A&S could be eliminated though.
"Kevin thinks 'mother' is half a word." - Mike Deane

warriorchick

Quote from: TallTitan34 on January 28, 2025, 08:11:59 AMThis pause on Federal loans and grants could make college enrollments get messy here shortly.  Seems to be some confusion right now on if student loans and grants are included or not.
They are not included.


https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status/1884355696507895905?t=888ZG2ZijN5EDYJq34PaqQ&s=19
Have some patience, FFS.

dgies9156

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 24, 2025, 08:48:06 AMWednesday Sonoma State in CA announced huge cuts to academic programs and elimination of athletics (they're D2 - https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/news/sonoma-state-ssu-rohnert-park-cuts/). Even public schools are not immune. As mentioned above, the flagship schools and those in major cities will do fine, but schools like UW-Superior and Central Michigan, and similar institutions are in trouble too. (https://www.house.mi.gov/hfa/PDF/FiscalSnapshot/HigherEd_10_Year_University_Enrollment_Trends_Jan2023.pdf)

Brother Billy:

UW-Superior is a classic case of why there's going to be more supply than demand.

It's located in a metro area of, at most, 150,000 persons. It's 10 miles south of the University of Minnesota -- Duluth. Historically, Wisconsin and Minnesota have had reciprocity agreements governing each others' residents' access to state universities at in-state rates. UMD is a larger, more academically diverse school than UWS ever will be.

What I fail to understand is why the State of Wisconsin doesn't close UWS, send the faculty and students over to UMD. It would be far more efficient and the incremental distance to school is negligible.

It's the political aspects that keep this from happening. Superior's population peaked somewhere around 1945 and its economic foundation erodes day by day. In effect, the university is a giant subsidy to Douglas and nearby counties.

P.S. -- My Mom went to UWS and I took summer classes there (and at UMD).


Billy Hoyle

Quote from: dgies9156 on January 30, 2025, 08:41:14 AMBrother Billy:

UW-Superior is a classic case of why there's going to be more supply than demand.

It's located in a metro area of, at most, 150,000 persons. It's 10 miles south of the University of Minnesota -- Duluth. Historically, Wisconsin and Minnesota have had reciprocity agreements governing each others' residents' access to state universities at in-state rates. UMD is a larger, more academically diverse school than UWS ever will be.

What I fail to understand is why the State of Wisconsin doesn't close UWS, send the faculty and students over to UMD. It would be far more efficient and the incremental distance to school is negligible.

It's the political aspects that keep this from happening. Superior's population peaked somewhere around 1945 and its economic foundation erodes day by day. In effect, the university is a giant subsidy to Douglas and nearby counties.

P.S. -- My Mom went to UWS and I took summer classes there (and at UMD).



UMD also has a national power D1 hockey program too.

During nearly every legislative session there is a bill introduced in WI to close some UW schools, but it never goes anywhere. Does the state really need three four year UW schools within a 65 mile drive of each other with River Falls, Stout, and Eau Claire?
"Kevin thinks 'mother' is half a word." - Mike Deane

The Sultan

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on January 30, 2025, 09:02:46 AMUMD also has a national power D1 hockey program too.

During nearly every legislative session there is a bill introduced in WI to close some UW schools, but it never goes anywhere. Does the state really need three four year UW schools within a 65 mile drive of each other with River Falls, Stout, and Eau Claire?


I would argue that's not a problem. River Falls has the only Ag school in the northern part of the state and draws a lot of students from Minnesota, Stout has a relatively unique "polytechnic" academic program, and Eau Claire is probably the best of all the comprehensive schools.

Don't get me wrong, you wouldn't build the system you have now if you did it from scratch, but unless you are cutting overall enrollment, you don't save a ton of money by closing larger schools.

The UW needs to close more of its two year campuses. They have already closed a number of them, but I don't think you need any of them. The technical college system in Wisconsin is excellent, and have developed plenty of transfer agreements to the four year campuses, so they could easily absorb that enrollment.

Then, instead of Superior, I would look hard at Parkside in Kenosha. Worst retention and graduation rates of all the four year schools - just 1,000 students larger than Superior as well. And you have campuses in both Milwaukee and Whitewater that are at least geographically close.
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

Hards Alumni

Quote from: The Sultan on January 30, 2025, 09:20:37 AMI would argue that's not a problem. River Falls has the only Ag school in the northern part of the state and draws a lot of students from Minnesota, Stout has a relatively unique "polytechnic" academic program, and Eau Claire is probably the best of all the comprehensive schools.

Don't get me wrong, you wouldn't build the system you have now if you did it from scratch, but unless you are cutting overall enrollment, you don't save a ton of money by closing larger schools.

The UW needs to close more of its two year campuses. They have already closed a number of them, but I don't think you need any of them. The technical college system in Wisconsin is excellent, and have developed plenty of transfer agreements to the four year campuses, so they could easily absorb that enrollment.

Then, instead of Superior, I would look hard at Parkside in Kenosha. Worst retention and graduation rates of all the four year schools - just 1,000 students larger than Superior as well. And you have campuses in both Milwaukee and Whitewater that are at least geographically close.

Right, what you could do is eliminate the programs that overlap from each school.  Specialize each of them, but keep them going.

JWags85

Quote from: The Sultan on January 30, 2025, 09:20:37 AMThen, instead of Superior, I would look hard at Parkside in Kenosha. Worst retention and graduation rates of all the four year schools - just 1,000 students larger than Superior as well. And you have campuses in both Milwaukee and Whitewater that are at least geographically close.

I don't know if it has always been that way, but when myself and my sisters and peers were looking at colleges, the only people going to Parkside from decent to good suburban HS were either headed to play or sport...or couldn't get into UWM but weren't going the MATC/WCTC track

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