Room for improvement

[BM1090]

Are you?  Cooper Flagg could be playing for Marquette and people here would tell you he isn't good enough for the NBA. 

Slightly.

[FairWeatherEagle]

My sense is that Scoop is generally positive on our starting 5. There are very few college players that don't have gaps in their game ...NBA ready. So pointing that out isn't being overly negative.

When I hear attacks on "negative scoopers", it's a straw man.

As for having the great/great player. The Markus and Ellenson times were nice but the way they ended left a bad taste. Wojo with an exceptional player is no where near as good as the Shaka "team" of good players we have.

[Newsdreams]

My sense is that Scoop is generally positive on our starting 5. There are very few college players that don't have gaps in their game ...NBA ready. So pointing that out isn't being overly negative.

When I hear attacks on "negative scoopers", it's a straw man.

As for having the great/great player. The Markus and Ellenson times were nice but the way they ended left a bad taste. Wojo with an exceptional player is no where near as good as the Shaka "team" of good players we have.

You're lost...

[MU82]

My sense is that Scoop is generally positive on our starting 5. There are very few college players that don't have gaps in their game ...NBA ready. So pointing that out isn't being overly negative.

When I hear attacks on "negative scoopers", it's a straw man.

Your sense makes you appear to have never read Scoop.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

My sense is that Scoop is generally positive on our starting 5. There are very few college players that don't have gaps in their game ...NBA ready. So pointing that out isn't being overly negative.

When I hear attacks on "negative scoopers", it's a straw man.

As for having the great/great player. The Markus and Ellenson times were nice but the way they ended left a bad taste. Wojo with an exceptional player is no where near as good as the Shaka "team" of good players we have.

Shaka's players haven't had the gaudy basic stats but let's not pretend the talent isn't there.

The BE Champs from two years ago had 3 NBA players. Kam will make it 4 and there's a good chance Chase makes it 5.

[Markusquette]

Ben's good. I'm happy with his progression. He's becoming more aggressive. Oso was a Wojo recruit but of course he did improve under Shaka (it still amazes me that we never saw him take a jump shot at MU and he's in the NBA, kudos).

I listed all of the big man recruits under Shaka, not all lumped in as the same level of disappointment. Keeyan was a bust, Amadou showed nothing and had to redshirt. TBD. Hamilton redshirted and still looks lost. Hopefully Clark can be a difference maker at the rim. I guess it's crazy to have expected a guy known for recruiting big men to bring in a single higher profile guy. But before you continue to bust my balls I love this team and I enjoy every year regardless of the outcome. Nobody is expecting Jokic out of Ben Gold.

[tower912]

To your point, how many top big men has MU been connected to in recruiting under Shaka?  Not many.  And for 26, Jensen from Kaukana is it. 

It appears the staff is counting on developing under the radar bigs.

[MUbiz]

To your point, how many top big men has MU been connected to in recruiting under Shaka?  Not many.  And for 26, Jensen from Kaukana is it. 

It appears the staff is counting on developing under the radar bigs.

If we are not going to hit the portal, trying to get a legit top 100 4 star center would not be a bad thing instead of going after unranked projects - which have proven to be fruitless to this point.

[Markusquette]

If we are not going to hit the portal, trying to get a legit top 100 4 star center would not be a bad thing instead of going after unranked projects - which have proven to be fruitless to this point.

Correct. If MU finds under-the-radar guys and they blossom, hats off to Shaka and co. Is the difference there really just location: Texas vs Milwaukee? Shaka brought in Jarrett Allen, Jaxon Hayes, Mo Bamba and even Jericho Sims who's an NBA player now. Who was the last dominant true big man to don blue and gold? Jim McIlvaine?

[GoldenEagles03]

Correct. If MU finds under-the-radar guys and they blossom, hats off to Shaka and co. Is the difference there really just location: Texas vs Milwaukee? Shaka brought in Jarrett Allen, Jaxon Hayes, Mo Bamba and even Jericho Sims who's an NBA player now. Who was the last dominant true big man to don blue and gold? Jim McIlvaine?

Oso Ighodaro? Lol.

[tower912]

Fruitless?  Ben is developing nicely.  Young, under the radar bigs, require patience.
As opposed to Crean, Shaka is still landing bigs.
The only bigs under Buzz  were Otule and Gardner.  McMorrow and Mbao don't really count.
Heldt,  Fischer (Tranferred under Buzz, stuck around for Wojo) Ellenson, Theo, Jayce Johnson, Garcia, Oso were big recruits under Wojo.

Gold, Amadou, Hamilton, Clark, and Itejere in 5 years?  Patience.

[MUfan12]

Correct. If MU finds under-the-radar guys and they blossom, hats off to Shaka and co. Is the difference there really just location: Texas vs Milwaukee? Shaka brought in Jarrett Allen, Jaxon Hayes, Mo Bamba and even Jericho Sims who's an NBA player now.

Different offense, too. Nevada didn't join his staff until 2020. I'd say this version is much more guard/stretch big friendly than the one those dudes played in.

Physically dominant, one and done type big men also probably are looking for what the team's entire NIL budget is.

[Markusquette]

Oso Ighodaro? Lol.

Definitely the best in recent memory. Shame the tournament run ended the way it did last year. Oso was pretty invisible last post-season.

Different offense, too. Nevada didn't join his staff until 2020. I'd say this version is much more guard/stretch big friendly than the one those dudes played in.

Physically dominant, one and done type big men also probably are looking for what the team's entire NIL budget is.

I like guys in the mold of Parham, Owens, O-Max, Joplin, etc. Big enough to rebound and play inside but still agile enough to play on the perimeter and defend multiple positions. Very common nowadays. I think the plan is right and if MU can just get a little more bulk/physicality pan out it could be the final ingredient to an even bigger run.

[tower912]

Definitely the best in recent memory. Shame the tournament run ended the way it did last year. Oso was pretty invisible last post-season.

I like guys in the mold of Parham, Owens, O-Max, Joplin, etc. Big enough to rebound and play inside but still agile enough to play on the perimeter and defend multiple positions. Very common nowadays. I think the plan is right and if MU can just get a little more bulk/physicality pan out it could be the final ingredient to an even bigger run.

So, Phillips and Miletic appeal to you.  Just have to be patient and let them fill out and mature.

[GoldenEagles03]

Definitely the best in recent memory. Shame the tournament run ended the way it did last year. Oso was pretty invisible last post-season.

I like guys in the mold of Parham, Owens, O-Max, Joplin, etc. Big enough to rebound and play inside but still agile enough to play on the perimeter and defend multiple positions. Very common nowadays. I think the plan is right and if MU can just get a little more bulk/physicality pan out it could be the final ingredient to an even bigger run.

They will have

Clark 7'1"
Gold 6'10"
Hamilton 6'9"
Amadou 6'9"
Parham 6'8"
Owens 6'8"

So the size shouldn't be a problem at all moving forward.

[Markusquette]

So, Phillips and Miletic appeal to you.  Just have to be patient and let them fill out and mature.

Definitely. And that's the mold of wing Shaka seems to go after. Very excited about them both, Phillips seems to be rising the ranks as of late.

They will have

Clark 7'1"
Gold 6'10"
Hamilton 6'9"
Amadou 6'9"
Parham 6'8"
Owens 6'8"

So the size shouldn't be a problem at all moving forward.

Size shouldn't be a problem at all. Hopefully a couple of the newcomers can fill in some meaningful minutes. Lots of talent leaving next year, but mostly the backcourt.

[The Sultan]

If we are not going to hit the portal, trying to get a legit top 100 4 star center would not be a bad thing instead of going after unranked projects - which have proven to be fruitless to this point.

Are you not watching the games or something?

[TedBaxter]

MUMark has linked in photo's of 6-9 Sheek Pearson (in recruiting thread), a 2026 player from Burroughs High School in St. Louis who took his official visit to Marquette 10 days ago.  He's in 247sports recent 2026 rankings at #85 for those that care.

[tower912]

Shame on me for forgetting that.

[tower912]

Rather than further polluting the 'what are we ranked' thread, let's argue about MU'S zone offense in the room for improvement thread. 

IMO, MU's scheme to beat the zone is fine.  Multiple players flash to the foul line, Ben even sneaks into the short corner dump off area from time to time.  What I saw against DePaul is that even when MU made the right opening move, pass to the foul line, the zone didn't move, staying home on the perimeter and leaving their big at the rim, a la Kalkbrenner in Drop coverage. That, and MU didn't do the hard work on every possession.
   Last season, opponents had to respect Oso when he got the ball there, both for the rim run and the pass.  So, MU has to do the right thing every possession and be willing to attack the rim if the defense stays out on the perimeter. 
  Standing around is never the answer.

[Scoop Snoop]

Rather than further polluting the 'what are we ranked' thread, let's argue about MU'S zone offense in the room for improvement thread. 

IMO, MU's scheme to beat the zone is fine.  Multiple players flash to the foul line, Ben even sneaks into the short corner dump off area from time to time.  What I saw against DePaul is that even when MU made the right opening move, pass to the foul line, the zone didn't move, staying home on the perimeter and leaving their big at the rim, a la Kalkbrenner in Drop coverage. That, and MU didn't do the hard work on every possession.
  Last season, opponents had to respect Oso when he got the ball there, both for the rim run and the pass.  So, MU has to do the right thing every possession and be willing to attack the rim if the defense stays out on the perimeter. 
 Standing around is never the answer.

Spot on. All I have to add after the word around is "like deer in the headlights."

[THRILLHO]

Rather than further polluting the 'what are we ranked' thread, let's argue about MU'S zone offense in the room for improvement thread. 

IMO, MU's scheme to beat the zone is fine.  Multiple players flash to the foul line, Ben even sneaks into the short corner dump off area from time to time.  What I saw against DePaul is that even when MU made the right opening move, pass to the foul line, the zone didn't move, staying home on the perimeter and leaving their big at the rim, a la Kalkbrenner in Drop coverage. That, and MU didn't do the hard work on every possession.
   Last season, opponents had to respect Oso when he got the ball there, both for the rim run and the pass.  So, MU has to do the right thing every possession and be willing to attack the rim if the defense stays out on the perimeter. 
  Standing around is never the answer.

Thanks, I posted in the other thread before I saw this one. Though I do think it is relevant to the rankings discussion since it puts a ceiling on our actual potential - against good coaches in March with the current scouting report we're going to see a lot of zone unless we show we can punish it.

As for tactics, I do think there is still too much standing around. Shaka's press conferences seem to emphasize mentality as much as anything -- his "no half shots" quote. I think that's great from a long term (season-long) perspective. Engrain the mentality that we are good shooters and an open 3 is a good shot even if it comes in a different context. We get decently open 3's in my estimation, but a lot of them still look like half shots to me. I also think the zone cuts off our layups and this year we don't have anything threatening in the Oso push shot range -- I wonder whether Jop or even Kam could try to do something from that spot, or if we don't consider that a good shot.

[wadesworld]

Thanks, I posted in the other thread before I saw this one. Though I do think it is relevant to the rankings discussion since it puts a ceiling on our actual potential - against good coaches in March with the current scouting report we're going to see a lot of zone unless we show we can punish it.

As for tactics, I do think there is still too much standing around. Shaka's press conferences seem to emphasize mentality as much as anything -- his "no half shots" quote. I think that's great from a long term (season-long) perspective. Engrain the mentality that we are good shooters and an open 3 is a good shot even if it comes in a different context. We get decently open 3's in my estimation, but a lot of them still look like half shots to me. I also think the zone cuts off our layups and this year we don't have anything threatening in the Oso push shot range -- I wonder whether Jop or even Kam could try to do something from that spot, or if we don't consider that a good shot.

Nobody is going to insert a zone with 1 day between games just to play against Marquette.  Come Tourney time, teams will play whatever their base defense is.

[THRILLHO]

Nobody is going to insert a zone with 1 day between games just to play against Marquette.  Come Tourney time, teams will play whatever their base defense is.

1) There is more than one day off between weekends.
2) Many good coaches and teams (like us!), ie, those likely to be alive later, already have a zone flavor that they use as a wrinkle to mix things up. If we can't do anything against it, we may get more than a taste of it.

[K1 Lover]

Nobody is going to insert a zone with 1 day between games just to play against Marquette.  Come Tourney time, teams will play whatever their base defense is.

This is actually a really interesting point. If we win our first round game, I think what you just said might help me sleep better at night before the R32.