Mid-season grades

[barfolomew]

If the season ended today, here would be the ten best seasons of Marquette basketball net efficiency in the Kenpom era:

Shaka S. 24-25 -- +26.01
Shaka S. 23-24 -- +23.02
Shaka S. 22-23 -- +22.38
Tom C.  07-08 -- +22.16
Tom C. 01-02 -- +21.47
Tom C. 02-03 -- +21.30
Brent W. 08-09 -- +21.02
Brent W. 11-12 -- +20.22
Brent W. 09-10 -- +19.65
Brent W. 12-13 -- +18.32

Best for Steve W. 19-20 -- +17.19

Best for Mike D.  96-97 -- +15.62

[Newsdreams]

Crean sucks

[Goose]

I think the Shaka era will end up being the second best, or possibly best, era in MU basketball history. As Herman noted, the past two years I felt MU had a very strong chance of making the FF and feel the same way this season. They have been consistently ranked in the top for much of the last 2+ seasons and have looked like they belonged there.

IMO, this is different than other mini runs of success because there is system in place that looks built for long term success. Again, having three straight years with a team very capable of making a FF is very impressive.

[GoldenEagles03]

I think the Shaka era will end up being the second best, or possibly best, era in MU basketball history. As Herman noted, the past two years I felt MU had a very strong chance of making the FF and feel the same way this season. They have been consistently ranked in the top for much of the last 2+ seasons and have looked like they belonged there.

IMO, this is different than other mini runs of success because there is system in place that looks built for long term success. Again, having three straight years with a team very capable of making a FF is very impressive.

Taking Bill Chandler out of the equation...I think Shaka has a real chance to be Marquette's longest tenured coach.

Crean and Buzz always seemed like guys who would use MU as a stepping stone so their eras were always going to be cut short. Doesn't really feel like that with Shaka.

[TallTitan34]

I'm the same. The end of 2004-05--with Diener's injury, a plethora of losses and the debacle against Western Michigan in the NIT--has always felt like the transition from one era to the next. I know Crean coached the Amigos the following year, but it just feels like a different time to me. Perhaps it was the move into the Big East in 2004-05 that is really the marker of a change in eras.

I always enjoy that Chris Otule played with both the Amigos and Jajuan Johnson.

[PointWarrior]

Scrimmage hot dog debacle takes down every players grade by 1....

[Pepe Sylvia]

Scrimmage hot dog debacle takes down every players grade by 1....

I was told it was the players' decision to close concessions so it seems fair to me.

[DoctorV]

I think the Shaka era will end up being the second best, or possibly best, era in MU basketball history. As Herman noted, the past two years I felt MU had a very strong chance of making the FF and feel the same way this season. They have been consistently ranked in the top for much of the last 2+ seasons and have looked like they belonged there.

IMO, this is different than other mini runs of success because there is system in place that looks built for long term success. Again, having three straight years with a team very capable of making a FF is very impressive.

Would a Natty in 2025 catapult the Shaka era to the best ever?

I assume not quite. How many extra good to great seasons would be needed?

I wasn't around for the Al years.

So much for 5 years to judge

[Shaka Shart]

Would a Natty in 2025 catapult the Shaka era to the best ever?

I assume not quite. How many extra good to great seasons would be needed?

I wasn't around for the Al years.

So much for 5 years to judge

There was an option for 4 years to judge in there, remember. We are right in the sweet spot.

[Galway Eagle]

Would a Natty in 2025 catapult the Shaka era to the best ever?

I assume not quite. How many extra good to great seasons would be needed?

I wasn't around for the Al years.

So much for 5 years to judge

Shaka could make us the next 60s/70s ucla and there's still be people saying Al's teams were better lol.

Shaka does the past two years and stays on track this with little to no fall off next year and the year after and I think he's solidified second greatest era. Make a FF or a natty or (knocks on wood) win a natty. And it certainly starts to become a debate for greatest.

[Lennys Tap]

Shaka could make us the next 60s/70s ucla and there's still be people saying Al's teams were better lol.

Shaka does the past two years and stays on track this with little to no fall off next year and the year after and I think he's solidified second greatest era. Make a FF or a natty or (knocks on wood) win a natty. And it certainly starts to become a debate for greatest.

Your first paragraph is (I assume and hope) intentional hyperbole.

Matching Al over a 10 year period) would mean 10 straight NCAA invites, 9 straight top 10 finishes in the AP poll, one National runner up, one National Championship, 4 Elite 8s and 8 S16s. The landscape is harder today so Shaka could match Al with a resume' a bit less gaudy - but it's a stretch. Still, he's easily the best we've had since.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So much for 5 years to judge

5 years to judge is an outdated phrase. Once insta transfers became a thing you could start judging right away.

[Galway Eagle]

Your first paragraph is (I assume and hope) intentional hyperbole.

Yes and no. There's definitely some posters I could see saying "it was harder back then" "Al laid the groundwork so he gets credit here as well" "these guys still couldn't carry any Al player's jock" but yeah overall was intentional hyperbole overall

[Uncle Rico]

Yes and no. There's definitely some posters I could see saying "it was harder back then" "Al laid the groundwork so he gets credit here as well" "these guys still couldn't carry any Al player's jock" but yeah overall was intentional hyperbole overall

College basketball is way deeper and way more competitive than the 1970's.

[Galway Eagle]

College basketball is way deeper and way more competitive than the 1970's.

Another classic Rico comedy post

[mileskishnish72]

Shaka could make us the next 60s/70s ucla and there's still be people saying Al's teams were better lol.

In some of our elders reminiscing plays a part in evaluating the two eras. Shaka hasn't caught Al yet, but I do hope that the comparison gets more and more difficult to debate.

[TallTitan34]

Well before my time but I've always been kind of pissed Al went to the NIT in 1970.  It's a fun story and all but I'd much rather have a legit shot at another natty.

[Hards Alumni]

Well before my time but I've always been kind of pissed Al went to the NIT in 1970.  It's a fun story and all but I'd much rather have a legit shot at another natty.

I agree.  Depending on the fan's POV Al was giving the NCAA the finger, but really he was being rather petty.

Cut off your nose to spite your face energy

[Galway Eagle]

I agree.  Depending on the fan's POV Al was giving the NCAA the finger, but really he was being rather petty.

Cut off your nose to spite your face energy

My favorite excuse is the "nit was basically on par with the ncaa tournament at the time. We had to beat Pistol Pete and Dr J to win it!" Argument.

Someone on Reddit did a deep look at rankings, records, etc of the NCAA vs NIT and it turns out the argument that it was ever on par is pretty much BS.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/1c53o8n/examining_the_claim_that_the_nit_was_better_than/

[MU82]

Would a Natty in 2025 catapult the Shaka era to the best ever?

Looking forward to finding out!

[Lennys Tap]

My favorite excuse is the "nit was basically on par with the ncaa tournament at the time. We had to beat Pistol Pete and Dr J to win it!" Argument.

Someone on Reddit did a deep look at rankings, records, etc of the NCAA vs NIT and it turns out the argument that it was ever on par is pretty much BS.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/1c53o8n/examining_the_claim_that_the_nit_was_better_than/

The NIT was not the equivalent of the NCAA. But a whole lot of teams who have won NCAA titles would have been left out of the field back in the day - only 1 team from each conference was invited, in some cases the regular season champion, in others the post season tournament champ.

[muwarrior69]

Your first paragraph is (I assume and hope) intentional hyperbole.

Matching Al over a 10 year period) would mean 10 straight NCAA invites, 9 straight top 10 finishes in the AP poll, one National runner up, one National Championship, 4 Elite 8s and 8 S16s. The landscape is harder today so Shaka could match Al with a resume' a bit less gaudy - but it's a stretch. Still, he's easily the best we've had since.

Today you have to win 2 games to make the S16 and 3 games to make the E8. Back in Al's time he had to win 1 game to make the S16 and 3 games to make the E8. As for the landscape being harder, that is open for debate. We were always placed in the Mid East Region, 1970 being the exception; which meant we had to play the SEC champ and the Big 10 Champ to just to make it the final 4. That all changed when they expanded the tournament to 32 in the 70s.

[Scoop Snoop]

My favorite excuse is the "nit was basically on par with the ncaa tournament at the time. We had to beat Pistol Pete and Dr J to win it!" Argument.

Someone on Reddit did a deep look at rankings, records, etc of the NCAA vs NIT and it turns out the argument that it was ever on par is pretty much BS.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/comments/1c53o8n/examining_the_claim_that_the_nit_was_better_than/

I was a senior that year and the mood on campus was very dark after Al made that decision. I do not recall anyone at the time saying that the NIT was "on par" with the NCAA tourney. Even back then, we knew the NIT was a distant second, but I know that you are referring to the after-the-fact BS arguments.

According to Gasaway in Miracles on Hardwood, Marquette's assistant to the president called Al to try to change his mind. Al's response allegedly was "Father, I don't hear confession, and you don't coach this team".

The Marquette Tribune tried to put a positive spin on Al's decision, but no one was buying it. Hearing about Al's decision was absolutely awful- a HUGE gut punch.  

[Herman Cain]

I was a senior that year and the mood on campus was very dark after Al made that decision. I do not recall anyone at the time saying that the NIT was "on par" with the NCAA tourney. Even back then, we knew the NIT was a distant second, but I know that you are referring to the after-the-fact BS arguments.

According to Gasaway in Miracles on Hardwood, Marquette's assistant to the president called Al to try to change his mind. Al's response allegedly was "Father, I don't hear confession, and you don't coach this team".

The Marquette Tribune tried to put a positive spin on Al's decision, but no one was buying it. Hearing about Al's decision was absolutely awful- a HUGE gut punch.   

1970 was also probably the second best chance to beat UCLA during the Wooden years. As the Bruins were between Alcindor and Walton and no other blue blood of that Era  was all that strong  . 72 was probably the best chance prior to Chones leaving.

[We R Final Four]

Al won a title.
That's the bar.