Marquette Retiring Jim Chones Jersey

[Shooter McGavin]

I was there also. While Marquette had already earned the respect of college bball fans, with Chones we had become the top college team. If I recall, we were preseason #1 and the early favorite to win the natty. Good thing I was young when I heard the news, or I might have had a coronary. I remember being first in shock, then numb.

This is a case of "you had to be there!". I think that's the reason for the disconnect with some of the younger scoopers here.

Not sure there is a disconnect.  I think people are being obtuse. 

[Lennys Tap]

Not sure there is a disconnect.  I think people are being obtuse.

Some are, but some who weren't there (like Lens) really know the history.

[Shooter McGavin]

Some are, but some who weren't there (like Lens) really know the history.

Agree Lenny.  One of the greatest players from the greatest era of MU basketball.  Knowing what we know of modern basketball (NIL and going pro early) makes it even a more modern argument and no brainer for his number to be up there.

[The Sultan]

dgies

You are 100% correct. Silly that this topic is even being debated.

I don't think anyone disagrees that Chones should have his number up there. Tower is just pointing out that dgies isn't being consistent with his criteria between Chones and Howard.

[tower912]

I said right up front that I had no problem with Chones jersey going up and was simply playing devil's adcovate.  It was fun.

I never mentioned Markus.

Sometimes, the simplest questions get the most entertaining answers.

[Galway Eagle]

Those who are pro chines retirement should Kentucky retire Towns' or Booker's jerseys?

[Lennys Tap]

Those who are pro chines retirement should Kentucky retire Towns' or Booker's jerseys?

No. Not even close.

[Galway Eagle]

No. Not even close.

So 38-1 and FF is a "not even close", but 50-1 with no major hardware is a for sure yes and anyone who's ever questioned it is a lunatic?

I'm apathetic on the matter for what it's worth.

[Lennys Tap]

So 38-1 and FF is a "not even close", but 50-1 with no major hardware is a for sure yes and anyone who's ever questioned it is a lunatic?

I'm apathetic on the matter for what it's worth.

They both averaged 10 points. Booker 2 rebounds, Townes 6.7. They were really good part time players. Booker didn't even start! Chones was a star - a 1st team All American.

Jerome Whitehead, Jim Boylan (National Champs) and Marcus Washington (National runner up) would be miles ahead of Booker and Townes for jersey hanging. And they're way behind Chones. So yeah, suggesting those 2 (Booker and Townes) are in Jimmy C's league in this regard is lunacy.

[Galway Eagle]

They both averaged 10 points. Booker 2 rebounds, Townes 6.7. They were really good part time players. Chinese was a star.

Jerome Whitehead, Jim Boylan (National Champs) and Marcus Washington (National runner up) would be miles ahead of Booker and Townes for jersey hanging. And they're way behind Chones. So yeah, suggesting those 2 (Booker and Townes) are in Jimmy C's league in this regard is lunacy.

KAT was a second team all American... ppg with that much talent isn't a great barometer of how impactful they were

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The issue was definitely not the number of fouls but the very  questionable offensive fouls called on Dean Meminger that led to him fouling out with the game on the line.

I didn't see the calls, and as far as I know they aren't online. So I'll accept that the calls on Meminger may have been atrocious. Maybe even the most atrocious calls in MU history. I just don't see any way that it was the "worst reffed game in MU history". Especially when I've seen one where we were outshot from the FT line 49-19 and another one where the refs decided that traveling doesn't exist anymore because PC can't afford a proper stadium.

[Uncle Rico]

KAT was a second team all American... ppg with that much talent isn't a great barometer of how impactful they were

At least they made a Final Four

[The Lens]

Some are, but some who weren't there (like Lens) really know the history.

Thank you.  Helps to know people with a front row seat.

[dgies9156]

I don't think anyone disagrees that Chones should have his number up there. Tower is just pointing out that dgies isn't being consistent with his criteria between Chones and Howard.

That's not correct. The standard I've suggested from the beginning -- including the Markus Howard debate -- is whether the player was "transformative."

Transformative for this application is defined as a player or group of players who because of their commitment to and body of work for Marquette, led the basketball team or the university to greater heights than it was before they arrived.

This is the standard by which Mr. Chones is in the rafters. I could argue Glenn Rivers, while at Marquette was not transformative and therefore didn't belong with a retired jersey. His body of work since really has carried him, including a stint on our Board of Trustees. I guess where I disagree with some who question me on standards is I would expect for someone to be in the rafters, their strong personal stat sheet had to lead the university to someplace it previously not been.

That, obviously, penalizes players who played for bad teams or bad coaches and had great stat sheets.

Maybe Buzz should be up there!  . OK, that's a bit much, I agree.

[Galway Eagle]

That's not correct. The standard I've suggested from the beginning -- including the Markus Howard debate -- is whether the player was "transformative."

Transformative for this application is defined as a player or group of players who because of their commitment to and body of work for Marquette, led the basketball team or the university to greater heights than it was before they arrived.

This is the standard by which Mr. Chones is in the rafters. I could argue Glenn Rivers, while at Marquette was not transformative and therefore didn't belong with a retired jersey. His body of work since really has carried him, including a stint on our Board of Trustees. I guess where I disagree with some who question me on standards is I would expect for someone to be in the rafters, their strong personal stat sheet had to lead the university to someplace it previously not been.

That, obviously, penalizes players who played for bad teams or bad coaches and had great stat sheets.

Maybe Buzz should be up there!  . OK, that's a bit much, I agree.

And yet I haven't seen you advocating for Terry Rand.

[Its DJOver]

Just say that you're overly biased to the Al era. That's totally fine, and no one would care, but throwing all this pretzel logic out there to try to justify it makes you look silly.

[The Sultan]

That's not correct. The standard I've suggested from the beginning -- including the Markus Howard debate -- is whether the player was "transformative."

Transformative for this application is defined as a player or group of players who because of their commitment to and body of work for Marquette, led the basketball team or the university to greater heights than it was before they arrived.

So Jim Chones was "transformative" because he ended Marquette's one year NCAA drought, but Markus Howard wasn't "transformative" because he ended Marquette's four year NCAA drought? 

[Its DJOver]

So Jim Chones was "transformative" because he ended Marquette's one year NCAA drought, but Markus Howard wasn't "transformative" because he ended Marquette's four year NCAA drought?

Markus being a two time AA isn't "new heights" because Butch did it 40 years earlier, therefore Markus' achievements are not noteworthy.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Are we just trolling Dgies? Chones clearly belongs up there more than anyone besides maybe TKO. I think Markus deserves it too, but after Chones for sure

[The Sultan]

Are we just trolling Dgies? Chones clearly belongs up there more than anyone besides maybe TKO. I think Markus deserves it too, but after Chones for sure

I 100% think Chones should be there. I just think the dialouge around him deserving it, versus other players, feels vibes and nostalgia based.

[4everwarriors]

#0 can't carry #22's Bike, aina?

[Uncle Rico]

#0 can't carry #22's Bike, aina?

That's true.  He didn't quit on a program and leave another at the altar.  But he played well against plumbers and dentists

[The Sultan]

#0 can't carry #22's Bike, aina?

While its hard to compare across eras and different positions, I think Chones is the better player.  He had the longer NBA career too.

But I don't think its as far apart as you are portraying. Chones had the better coach and had more talent around him. But both were considered amongst the best playing the game during their respective eras.

[BM1090]

Yep. Markus with competent coaching and development would have won a ton of games. People view the lack of success as a result of his playstyle, when really he was the only reason we were any good for those few years.

Sam was obviously a good player as well but his ceiling was always going to be complementary piece.

[Lennys Tap]

So Jim Chones was "transformative" because he ended Marquette's one year NCAA drought, but Markus Howard wasn't "transformative" because he ended Marquette's four year NCAA drought?

Are you in a NCAA tourney drought when you refuse an invitation?