2024-25 NBA Thread

[The Sultan]

Herro is the poorest of poor man's Dame. Empty calorie scorer who's a traffic cone on defense. And that's offensive to a traffic cone.

He's a good player, but is ideally the second or third best player on a good team. He's not good enough to be the "A" player on a contender. The top players in terms of cap space are Adebayo, Herro, Wiggins, Rozier and Robinson - that's....not great.

[MU82]

I went to a couple mid 80s Bucks' games so I did see good basketball there - they beat Larry Bird's Celtics in one of them. It always seemed like a fun place on television with the cool floor and dark background, but when I walked in the building for the first time I remember thinking "what a dump."

I'd agree that the Arena was dumpy, but I also thought it was a great place to watch Marquette and Bucks basketball. I sat in many different sections over the years and had a very good view every time. And for Warriors games when things were going well - which was the case for at least some of my time at Marquette - it was loud in there. Digger called it the toughest place to play in the country due to MU's home crowd.

I got to see some fun Bucks teams, even though they weren't quite good enough to beat the great Celtics and Sixers teams of the day. But my biggest Bucks/Arena memory had nothing to do with basketball. I went to a game with a couple of buddies only to discover later that I had lost my wallet. I called first thing next morning, and my wallet had been turned in. I went down to pick it up and it was all there, including my ATM card, my one credit card and the $30 cash I had. I left a $10 reward for the person who found it - I hope they gave it to that person! $10 might not seem like much, but it was about 10% of my wealth at the time!!

[wadesworld]

He may very well be the 3rd best player on the team, period. But he brings something that a better player like KD doesn't.

It's hard to beat a team with 3 alphas.

Lol.  You're STILL running with this narrative that KD couldn't lead a team to a title, despite having 2 Finals MVPs, because the Warriors had already won a title without KD, but that Jimmy Butler is going to be the guy who picks up the Warriors franchise and carries them to a title after they've won 4?

I forgot Jimmy had all these titles prior to arriving in Golden State.  And that Golden State just needed one piece to finally get them over the hump they couldn't get over and get that ring that has eluded them for so long.

[MU82]

Lol.  You're STILL running with this narrative that KD couldn't lead a team to a title, despite having 2 Finals MVPs, because the Warriors had already won a title without KD, but that Jimmy Butler is going to be the guy who picks up the Warriors franchise and carries them to a title after they've won 4?

I forgot Jimmy had all these titles prior to arriving in Golden State.  And that Golden State just needed one piece to finally get them over the hump they couldn't get over and get that ring that has eluded them for so long.

Yeah, I'm a big Jimmy fan, and I'm hardly a KD apologist ... but that was just a goofy take.

I do believe it's true, though, that these Warriors have 0% chance of sniffing a title if Jimmy isn't healthy and playing well. I won't argue whether or not he's a bigger "alpha" than KD because it's pure opinion and impossible to prove, and I won't suggest Jimmy has been a better player than KD because he obviously hasn't been.

But Jimmy is a force of nature; we see what the Heat are without him, and we see what the Warriors are with him. He's been a very good bordering on great NBA player for a decade-plus, and GS's trade for him was brilliant.

[Jockey]

Lol.  You're STILL running with this narrative that KD couldn't lead a team to a title, despite having 2 Finals MVPs, because the Warriors had already won a title without KD, but that Jimmy Butler is going to be the guy who picks up the Warriors franchise and carries them to a title after they've won 4?

I forgot Jimmy had all these titles prior to arriving in Golden State.  And that Golden State just needed one piece to finally get them over the hump they couldn't get over and get that ring that has eluded them for so long.

Forget the Titles.

In 14 non Golden State seasons, he has only MADE the Finals one time, I believe. Out of those 14 years, he has had at least one other HoFer every year except his rookie season - mostly 1st ballot HoFers.

What kept him from not only winning more titles, but from even getting to more Finals?

[wadesworld]

Forget the Titles.

In 14 non Golden State seasons, he has only MADE the Finals one time, I believe. Out of those 14 years, he has had at least one other HoFer every year except his rookie season - mostly 1st ballot HoFers.

What kept him from not only winning more titles, but from even getting to more Finals?

Injuries.

How many finals did Steve Nash make?  Your alpha man Jimmy Butler's made fewer than KD so far.  John Stockton and Karl Malone made two Finals appearance.  Kevin Garnett made 2 Finals.  Giannis has made 1 Finals.

Again, your argument is, "KD can't win a title without great players on his team."  No sh!t.  In at least modern history, what teams haven't had multiple HOFers and won a title?  Probably the 2021 Bucks, which were aided by KD's team having multiple injuries or they would've probably swept the Bucks.  Probably the 2023 Nuggets.  Is that the list?

[cheebs09]

Plus, I think he played with one of the most prodigious empty stats collectors in Westbrook.

He joined a pretty brutal Sonics franchise that was on its way out of Seattle.

[wadesworld]

Plus, I think he played with one of the most prodigious empty stats collectors in Westbrook.

He joined a pretty brutal Sonics franchise that was on its way out of Seattle.

Yup.  And while he was a great 6th man, Harden was nowhere near what he became with the Rockets when he was on the Thunder.  He had one season over 12 ppg with OKC, and he was coming off the bench.

[The Sultan]

Injuries.

How many finals did Steve Nash make?  Your alpha man Jimmy Butler's made fewer than KD so far.  John Stockton and Karl Malone made two Finals appearance.  Kevin Garnett made 2 Finals.  Giannis has made 1 Finals.

Again, your argument is, "KD can't win a title without great players on his team."  No sh!t.  In at least modern history, what teams haven't had multiple HOFers and won a title?  Probably the 2021 Bucks, which were aided by KD's team having multiple injuries or they would've probably swept the Bucks.  Probably the 2023 Nuggets.  Is that the list?

'94 Rockets only had Hakeem. ('95 is when Drexler was added)

[MU82]

'94 Rockets only had Hakeem. ('95 is when Drexler was added)

Yep. That first Rockets title team had a lot of decent players and a few who did well in the clutch - Horry, Kenny Smith, Cassell, Maxwell, Thorpe, Elie. But that was not a great team by any stretch.

[Jockey]

It's interesting. When you read articles on guys like Butler, Green, Curry, MJ, Bird, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, etc., they always mention their desire to win - at anything, all the time.

I don't recall ever seeing an article like that on KD. I'm sure he prefers winning, but I don't think the desire/need for it is built into his DNA like it is with those other guys.

[The Sultan]

Yep. That first Rockets title team had a lot of decent players and a few who did well in the clutch - Horry, Kenny Smith, Cassell, Maxwell, Thorpe, Elie. But that was not a great team by any stretch.

And the Knicks team they beat only had one Hall of Famer as well - Ewing.

[Jockey]

This is pretty obviously AI generated, but it goes along with what I just posted and with what I've been saying for a while now

Kevin Durant is motivated to win, but not solely driven by winning championships. While he's passionate about winning, he also values his individual growth and development as a player. Durant's statements suggest he's driven by a desire to win at a high level and prove himself outside of the Golden State Warriors context.

Elaboration:
Not Obsessed with Championships:
Durant has stated he's not solely focused on winning championships, implying that winning is important, but not the sole purpose of his game.

Individual Growth:
He emphasizes the importance of his individual development and progress as a player, suggesting a broader motivation beyond just winning titles

[The Sultan]

This is pretty obviously AI generated, but it goes along with what I just posted and with what I've been saying for a while now

Kevin Durant is motivated to win, but not solely driven by winning championships. While he's passionate about winning, he also values his individual growth and development as a player. Durant's statements suggest he's driven by a desire to win at a high level and prove himself outside of the Golden State Warriors context.

Elaboration:
Not Obsessed with Championships:
Durant has stated he's not solely focused on winning championships, implying that winning is important, but not the sole purpose of his game.

Individual Growth:
He emphasizes the importance of his individual development and progress as a player, suggesting a broader motivation beyond just winning titles

Man, that's laughably bad even for you.

[cheebs09]

This is pretty obviously AI generated, but it goes along with what I just posted and with what I've been saying for a while now

Kevin Durant is motivated to win, but not solely driven by winning championships. While he's passionate about winning, he also values his individual growth and development as a player. Durant's statements suggest he's driven by a desire to win at a high level and prove himself outside of the Golden State Warriors context.

Elaboration:
Not Obsessed with Championships:
Durant has stated he's not solely focused on winning championships, implying that winning is important, but not the sole purpose of his game.

Individual Growth:
He emphasizes the importance of his individual development and progress as a player, suggesting a broader motivation beyond just winning titles

It's interesting. When you read articles on guys like Butler, Green, Curry, MJ, Bird, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, etc., they always mention their desire to win - at anything, all the time.

I don't recall ever seeing an article like that on KD. I'm sure he prefers winning, but I don't think the desire/need for it is built into his DNA like it is with those other guys.

Yikes. If we the data point we are going to is their will to win isn't highlighted in  articles, I'm not sure the conversation is going to be very productive.

Also, the Pistons team that won it in 2004 only had Ben Wallace as a HOF member. I don't know if Rasheed or Billups have much of a shot. Honestly, I was surprised Ben Wallace made it.

[The Sultan]

Yikes. If we the data point we are going to is their will to win isn't highlighted in  articles, I'm not sure the conversation is going to be very productive.

Also, the Pistons team that won it in 2004 only had Ben Wallace as a HOF member. I don't know if Rasheed or Billups have much of a shot. Honestly, I was surprised Ben Wallace made it.

Billups is in the Hall of Fame. Inducted last year.

[wadesworld]

This is pretty obviously AI generated, but it goes along with what I just posted and with what I've been saying for a while now

Kevin Durant is motivated to win, but not solely driven by winning championships. While he's passionate about winning, he also values his individual growth and development as a player. Durant's statements suggest he's driven by a desire to win at a high level and prove himself outside of the Golden State Warriors context.

Elaboration:
Not Obsessed with Championships:
Durant has stated he's not solely focused on winning championships, implying that winning is important, but not the sole purpose of his game.

Individual Growth:
He emphasizes the importance of his individual development and progress as a player, suggesting a broader motivation beyond just winning titles

LOL.  You Googled, "Does Kevin Durant have a desire to win?"  This stuff is hilarious.

Also, Kevin Durant isn't an alpha because he chased titles rather than leading his own team (see: desire to win), but Google's AI tells me Kevin Durant doesn't have a desire to win because he left Golden State.

      

[cheebs09]

Billups is in the Hall of Fame. Inducted last year.

Ugh. Scanning Wikipedia failed me. Thanks!

[MU82]

Butler, Green, Curry, MJ, Bird, Tom Brady, Joe Montana

One of these names just doesn't belong here ...

Jimmy might have the "will to," but when it comes to championships, he doesn't have any of the "win."

You seem to want to label Jimmy a BIG-TIME WINNER, and that's your opinion and you're allowed to have it ... but to be that, doesn't an athlete actually have to win something?

And again, I'm a big JFB fan.

[Jockey]

One of these names just doesn't belong here ...

Jimmy might have the "will to," but when it comes to championships, he doesn't have any of the "win."

You seem to want to label Jimmy a BIG-TIME WINNER, and that's your opinion and you're allowed to have it ... but to be that, doesn't an athlete actually have to win something?

And again, I'm a big JFB fan.

You're right, but Jimmy has led more non GS teams to the finals than KD -with way, way less talent.

I say 'non GS' because Jimmy has never played with guys like Steph and Draymond.

But, again these are all just opinions. I have acknowledged KD's greatness as one of the 20 best players ever to exist. My closest comparison would be Jerry West.

[MuggsyB]

This is pretty obviously AI generated, but it goes along with what I just posted and with what I've been saying for a while now

Kevin Durant is motivated to win, but not solely driven by winning championships. While he's passionate about winning, he also values his individual growth and development as a player. Durant's statements suggest he's driven by a desire to win at a high level and prove himself outside of the Golden State Warriors context.

Elaboration:
Not Obsessed with Championships:
Durant has stated he's not solely focused on winning championships, implying that winning is important, but not the sole purpose of his game.

Individual Growth:
He emphasizes the importance of his individual development and progress as a player, suggesting a broader motivation beyond just winning titles

This is ludicrous. 

[MuggsyB]

You're right, but Jimmy has led more non GS teams to the finals than KD -with way, way less talent.

I say 'non GS' because Jimmy has never played with guys like Steph and Draymond.

But, again these are all just opinions. I have acknowledged KD's greatness as one of the 20 best players ever to exist. My closest comparison would be Jerry West.

..
.
You're comparing Durant to a 6'3 guard?  WTF?

[MuggsyB]

Big shot by A.J. Green.  But can they hold on?

[MuggsyB]

How do you allow a guy to get two uncontested chippies?

[MuggsyB]

Not the shot you want there.