2024-25 NBA Thread

[MuggsyB]

Yes. And that is a big, big compliment because Jimmy will be in the HoF. You need to realize that there is more to offense than scoring.

There absolutely is more to the game than scoring. But if you ask me who's a better basketball player?  I'd say Butler. 

[Jockey]

There absolutely is more to the game than scoring. But if you ask me who's a better basketball player?  I'd say Butler. 

I think a lot of people feel that way. I am not one of them.

[forgetful]

We're truly privileged to watch Curry ball.  He's one of one. 

If I'm putting together my dream roster, my 1st draft pick is Jordan.

My 2nd might be Curry, because of how he impacts the game and makes everyone around him better (defense has to focus on him 100% of the time).

In terms of unique players, Curry is an all time unicorn.

[JWags85]

It's not a parallel argument.  Green is a great defender, but he's always played on a great team.  And in that system.  He's also played with the best offensive player by far during his tenure.  Stats don't even come close to measuring Curry's impact.  Dray's assists are skewed tremendously because of Curry.    Green is a superb defender but if he played on a different team, and a different system, he wouldn't sniff the Hall of Fame.

And if Jrue didn't get traded to the Bucks and stayed in NOLA, he'd be thought of as a just another good player for a mediocre franchise who was a good defender, but not a regular All Star, much less a HOF player.  That's not the argument you think it is.

You're letting your profound and well-expressed dislike of Green color this argument completely.

[Jockey]

There is one big thing I rarely, if ever, hear about Draymond. He is the reason that Steph can't be double teamed. He is probably the best 4-on-3 player in the league.

Also a great screener and passer. He helps Steph just as much as Steph helps him.

[MuggsyB]

There is one big thing I rarely, if ever, hear about Draymond. He is the reason that Steph can't be double teamed. He is probably the best 4-on-3 player in the league.

Also a great screener and passer. He helps Steph just as much as Steph helps him.

Steph would manage without him.  He'd still have had a pretty good career. 

[MuggsyB]

And if Jrue didn't get traded to the Bucks and stayed in NOLA, he'd be thought of as a just another good player for a mediocre franchise who was a good defender, but not a regular All Star, much less a HOF player.  That's not the argument you think it is.

You're letting your profound and well-expressed dislike of Green color this argument completely.

I'll admit I don't care for the guy.  But I still disagree with you.  Holiday is a much better offensive player.  I'm also curious why, if Green is an all-time great defender, why in those Cavs/Dubs series he wasn't the primary defender on Lebron?  Why did Iguodola, who isn't on anyone's radar for the HOF, mostly guard Lebron?  Ty.  But I will concede I don't like the guy and could be biased. 

[Jockey]

Steph would manage without him.  He'd still have had a pretty good career. 

No one here has ever said otherwise.

[MuggsyB]

Curry and Jokic makes guys better around them unlike any players I've seen.  Klay Thompson may have been a Hall of Famer without Steph, but it's not close to certain.  Green definitely would not. And this idea that Speph isn't double teamed, or grabbed and bumped constantly is laughable.  He completely changes the geometry of their offense.  Green is very good in 4 on 3 situations.  He's an excellent passer.  But the reason he's in those situations is Stephen Curry. 

[MuggsyB]

No one here has ever said otherwise.

Curry made 3 shots yesterday that no one on earth could have made.  Ever.  And he does this routinely. He's more ridiculous and actually better than he's given credit.

[Jockey]

I'll admit I don't care for the guy.  But I still disagree with you.  Holiday is a much better offensive player.  I'm also curious why, if Green is an all-time great defender, why in those Cavs/Dubs series he wasn't the primary defender on Lebron?  Why did Iguodola, who isn't on anyone's radar for the HOF, mostly guard Lebron?  Ty.  But I will concede I don't like the guy and could be biased. 

I've been told that Durant was so great that he was NBA Finals MVP over Steph. Well, Iggy was also an NBA Finals MVP over Steph.

Iggy WILL get votes for the HoF although I think there is almost a 0% chance he would make it.

[MuggsyB]

And I'll tell you something else:  He's the best shooter (with devastating touch) from literally every single spot on the floor that we've be lucky to witness.  And that doesn't even include his portfolio of lay-ups and floaters. 

[MuggsyB]

I've been told that Durant was so great that he was NBA Finals MVP over Steph. Well, Iggy was also an NBA Finals MVP over Steph.

Iggy WILL get votes for the HoF although I think there is almost a 0% chance he would make it.

Iggy's Finals MVP was laughable.  Durant was really good in those 2 Finals. 

[MuggsyB]

What would happen if there was a 6'8 to 6'10 Curry?  Constant darkness?  I was just curious.

[MuggsyB]

If I'm putting together my dream roster, my 1st draft pick is Jordan.

My 2nd might be Curry, because of how he impacts the game and makes everyone around him better (defense has to focus on him 100% of the time).

In terms of unique players, Curry is an all time unicorn.

I'm not quite there but have thought about this extensively.  He's not a horrible defender but certainly not elite.  Curry impacts every single offensive possession.  Not even Jordan had that impact.  His only possible offensive weakness is that he doesn't get to the line a ton. 

[MU82]

What would happen if there was a 6'8 to 6'10 Curry?  Constant darkness?  I was just curious.

Maybe a little darkness because he might occasionally hit his head on the door frame.

[MuggsyB]

Maybe a little darkness because he might occasionally hit his head on the door frame.

It would definitely be interesting....probably 60 ppg on .655 efg. 

[JWags85]

I'll admit I don't care for the guy.  But I still disagree with you.  Holiday is a much better offensive player.  I'm also curious why, if Green is an all-time great defender, why in those Cavs/Dubs series he wasn't the primary defender on Lebron?  Why did Iguodola, who isn't on anyone's radar for the HOF, mostly guard Lebron?  Ty.  But I will concede I don't like the guy and could be biased. 

Easy explanation...in the 2015 finals, Draymond was in his 3rd season, his first season as a starter and first season playing more than 20ish minutes a game.  He had a great year defensively and made his first All Defense first team and was in the discussion for DPOY, but he was still very young and raw.

Meanwhile, that same year, Iggy was in his 11th NBA season, had just been All-Defense first team the year before and finished 3rd for DPOY, I believe.  Not to mention he was an Olympic gold medalist 2 years before on a team where he was selected specifically for his defensive prowess.  He was the savvy experienced vet who had been known as an elite defender for years.

Kerr tasked the experienced vet who had seen Lebron for years in the Eastern Conference over the inexperienced younger guy still breaking out.  This wasn't 2016-2017 Draymond where he was an absolute beast, he was still breaking out.  Honestly, Iggy was Draymond before Draymond in a lot of ways and I'm sure Draymond learned a bunch from him early on about physical defending as an undersized forward.

[MuggsyB]

Easy explanation...in the 2015 finals, Draymond was in his 3rd season, his first season as a starter and first season playing more than 20ish minutes a game.  He had a great year defensively and made his first All Defense first team and was in the discussion for DPOY, but he was still very young and raw.

Meanwhile, that same year, Iggy was in his 11th NBA season, had just been All-Defense first team the year before and finished 3rd for DPOY, I believe.  Not to mention he was an Olympic gold medalist 2 years before on a team where he was selected specifically for his defensive prowess.  He was the savvy experienced vet who had been known as an elite defender for years.

Kerr tasked the experienced vet who had seen Lebron for years in the Eastern Conference over the inexperienced younger guy still breaking out.  This wasn't 2016-2017 Draymond where he was an absolute beast, he was still breaking out.  Honestly, Iggy was Draymond before Draymond in a lot of ways and I'm sure Draymond learned a bunch from him early on about physical defending as an undersized forward.

Ty.  But they played each other 4 times I believe.   

[JWags85]

Ty.  But they played each other 4 times I believe.   

That year?  And it doesn't matter if it was the finals or not, it would still hold true.

[MU82]

Knicks looking like Marquette - can't keep the Pistons off the offensive boards.

[MuggsyB]

Knicks looking like Marquette - can't keep the Pistons off the offensive boards.

I hope you didn't jinx the Pistons.  Cunningham was fouled there. 

[MuggsyB]

That year?  And it doesn't matter if it was the finals or not, it would still hold true.

No.  Four times in the Finals. 

[MuggsyB]

Detroit needs to stop gagging. 

[MuggsyB]

Sweet Jesus!  Detroit has no one to blame but themselves if they lose.