Quite The Juxtaposition

[lawdog77]

From what?

NLRB

[Pakuni]

Who wrote anything about the NRLB?
I mean, I know where you're trying to go with this, but holy non sequitur.

The reality is state university employees have the right to organize and collectively bargain in 2/3rds of states. And I suspect in places where they don't, that'll change very quickly if those states care about football or basketball. Brian Kemp won't want to be remembered as the governor that allowed the Bulldogs to become irrelevant.

[Viper]

Guys, it's not 1950 anymore. College athletics is a big time business that the players have not been allowed to adequately compensate from.

And we need to stop acting that "playing for your school, your teammates, classmates, fans" and "playing for a contract" are mutually exclusive options.

adequately compensated from. 🤔  Well...take the scholly and perks of tutors, trainers, training table, travel, degree of fame, blah blah of which most kids would die for...or, take the $...and aforementioned perks. Freedom in America is beautiful. And, if that deal isn't good enough for said player, then go pro son, i.e. NBA, G, Euro. After all, you can always come back to college when that pro career is over. Scholly AND 💰? Well, he wants it, he's gettin' it, hey.

[The Sultan]

adequately compensated from. 🤔  Well...take the scholly and perks of tutors, trainers, training table, travel, degree of fame, blah blah of which most kids would die for...or, take the $...and aforementioned perks. Freedom in America is beautiful. And, if that deal isn't good enough for said player, then go pro son, i.e. NBA, G, Euro. After all, you can always come back to college when that pro career is over. Scholly AND 💰? Well, he wants it, he's gettin' it, hey.

College basketball players were not adequately compensated according to the marketplace. The fact that they now make significantly more money without the limitations previously in place proves that.

[Uncle Rico]

adequately compensated from. 🤔  Well...take the scholly and perks of tutors, trainers, training table, travel, degree of fame, blah blah of which most kids would die for...or, take the $...and aforementioned perks. Freedom in America is beautiful. And, if that deal isn't good enough for said player, then go pro son, i.e. NBA, G, Euro. After all, you can always come back to college when that pro career is over. Scholly AND 💰? Well, he wants it, he's gettin' it, hey.

Freedom in America is beautiful.  That's why there's NIL.

[Viper]

College basketball players were not adequately compensated according to the marketplace. The fact that they now make significantly more money without the limitations previously in place proves that.

great...go make that money, OR, take the scholly

[The Sultan]

great...go make that money, OR, take the scholly

[The Sultan]

great...go make that money, OR, take the scholly

But seriously...why?  The marketplace determines that they should get both. 

[Uncle Rico]

But seriously...why?  The marketplace determines that they should get both.

The courts, state governments and NCAA determined that, too.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

But seriously...why?  The marketplace determines that they should get both.

I think he's saying that college athletes who choise the money should go play overseas or in the g league and only those who choose the schollie should be allowed to be an athlete.... which would of course not solve the some college athletes are underpaid problem

[wadesworld]

A ton of college kids get scholarship money and make money working a job at the same time. Seems absurd to force them to choose one or the other.

[Viper]

I think he's saying that college athletes who choise the money should go play overseas or in the g league and only those who choose the schollie should be allowed to be an athlete.... which would of course not solve the some college athletes are underpaid problem

you've misunderstood. I've been consistent in my preference that collegiate sports remain on a level separate from the 'professional' game.
Take the scholly. Or...take the $. You can play college ball taking the $. My acquiescence to those that will say...'but they've always been paid. Now it's legal'. Yes, amateurism is dead. (Well, except for MU82's posts. Jesus loves you, '82)
Take the one that got away, Kon... gets what, $500k per from Duke? Kon, take the $. It's the smart play. Leave the scholly for, say, Little Rico. Little Rico, you got a $10 handshake? Take the scholly, the tutors, training table, Duke swag etc etc. (yes, Kon gets the tutors, training table etc too)
Choices. Beautiful. Both play college ball. Kon makes large $...as much as possible I hope. Awesome! You'll cover your tuition while here, then off to the pro's in a year or two. Billy? No $ kiddo...but the 'marketplace' dictates this. However...Full ride! No debt. You'll make connections from being on the team, maybe run AutoZone or Krogers in a few years, possibly making more $ than Kon!!
A marketplace with options. Perfect.
Or, do what we're doing now. Everyone gets a scholly, and bag, and 'college' ball is a less talented gleague with 'academic obligations' because, after all, we are here for a degree. My take. I get it, you all disagree. Next.

[Viper]

A ton of college kids get scholarship money and make money working a job at the same time. Seems absurd to force them to choose one or the other.

force? No one is forcing anyone to do anything. One gets paid to ball. One gets paid to wait tables, Uber, or whatever...or not.

[wadesworld]

force? No one is forcing anyone to do anything. One gets paid to ball. One gets paid to wait tables, Uber, or whatever...or not.

Correct. So both get scholarship money and pocket money. Why are we telling one group they can only get scholarship money or pocket money but letting the other group get both?

[Viper]

Correct. So both get scholarship money and pocket money. Why are we telling one group they can only get scholarship money or pocket money but letting the other group get both?

collegiate athletics, amateur athletics, is long gone. So there ya go. Although, on the pga tour, I don't believe a golfer that is playing as an amateur gets to keep money won. I guess that guy will have to work in the clubhouse.

[MU82]

you don't have a job, do you?

I'm retired. What does that have to do with your belief that college athletes should have to make a choice between pre-NIL-era benefits or going pro ...  when the fact is that they don't have to make that choice?

Jesus loves you, '82

And I like Jesus (or I would, if he didn't die thousands of years ago). What's not to like - he's one of our boys who made it big!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

you've misunderstood. I've been consistent in my preference that collegiate sports remain on a level separate from the 'professional' game.
Take the scholly. Or...take the $. You can play college ball taking the $. My acquiescence to those that will say...'but they've always been paid. Now it's legal'. Yes, amateurism is dead. (Well, except for MU82's posts. Jesus loves you, '82)
Take the one that got away, Kon... gets what, $500k per from Duke? Kon, take the $. It's the smart play. Leave the scholly for, say, Little Rico. Little Rico, you got a $10 handshake? Take the scholly, the tutors, training table, Duke swag etc etc. (yes, Kon gets the tutors, training table etc too)
Choices. Beautiful. Both play college ball. Kon makes large $...as much as possible I hope. Awesome! You'll cover your tuition while here, then off to the pro's in a year or two. Billy? No $ kiddo...but the 'marketplace' dictates this. However...Full ride! No debt. You'll make connections from being on the team, maybe run AutoZone or Krogers in a few years, possibly making more $ than Kon!!
A marketplace with options. Perfect.
Or, do what we're doing now. Everyone gets a scholly, and bag, and 'college' ball is a less talented gleague with 'academic obligations' because, after all, we are here for a degree. My take. I get it, you all disagree. Next.

So what does this accomplish other than screw over private schools like Marquette?

"Hey Kam, we got you a $100K for the upcoming season but you're going to have to pay us $45K for tuition. Oh, Tennessee will give you $100K and you only need to pay $5K for tuition? Yeah that sounds like a better deal. Yeah I know we used to be able to offer you both but some people got grumpy about it. I mean can't you play for 'your school, your teammates, classmates, fans, rivalries, or whatever'? Oh, you were already doing that because they are not mutually exclusive options? Oh and you come from a low-income family so we're asking you to choose between a better life for your family and making some fans you've never met feel all warm and fuzzy about your commitment to their favorite college basketball team? Yeah that doesn't sound like a difficult choice. But Kam, you got to understand, these guys really miss a time when the three-pointer didn't exist and dunking was illegal. It would be such a thrill for them. Whats that? Well yeah all those players were getting paid under the table but these guys like to pretend they weren't. And I know that they wax poetic about Al Maguire looking in Chones' fridge and telling him to go pro, but you should just suck it up and play for less than what the marketplace has determined you are worth. Oh you're actually calling me from Knoxville? You already told them you would be transferring? Cool cool cool cool."

I hope you hold yourself to these same standards. You better be working for the same company that gave you your first professional job and regularly turn down raises and bonuses because you work for the name on the front of your work polo, not for contracts. Of course you don't, because that would be stupid. But my guess is that you take tremendous pride in your work even though you're also accepting as much money as your company is willing to give.

[Uncle Rico]

Fine.  Get rid of scholarships and just give the players contracts.  Problem solved.  Next.

[avid1010]

you've misunderstood. I've been consistent in my preference that collegiate sports remain on a level separate from the 'professional' game.
Take the scholly. Or...take the $. You can play college ball taking the $. My acquiescence to those that will say...'but they've always been paid. Now it's legal'. Yes, amateurism is dead. (Well, except for MU82's posts. Jesus loves you, '82)
Take the one that got away, Kon... gets what, $500k per from Duke? Kon, take the $. It's the smart play. Leave the scholly for, say, Little Rico. Little Rico, you got a $10 handshake? Take the scholly, the tutors, training table, Duke swag etc etc. (yes, Kon gets the tutors, training table etc too)
Choices. Beautiful. Both play college ball. Kon makes large $...as much as possible I hope. Awesome! You'll cover your tuition while here, then off to the pro's in a year or two. Billy? No $ kiddo...but the 'marketplace' dictates this. However...Full ride! No debt. You'll make connections from being on the team, maybe run AutoZone or Krogers in a few years, possibly making more $ than Kon!!
A marketplace with options. Perfect.
Or, do what we're doing now. Everyone gets a scholly, and bag, and 'college' ball is a less talented gleague with 'academic obligations' because, after all, we are here for a degree. My take. I get it, you all disagree. Next.

That would be a lot of money shuffling just to end up in the same place we currently are.

[The Sultan]

you've misunderstood. I've been consistent in my preference that collegiate sports remain on a level separate from the 'professional' game.
Take the scholly. Or...take the $. You can play college ball taking the $. My acquiescence to those that will say...'but they've always been paid. Now it's legal'. Yes, amateurism is dead. (Well, except for MU82's posts. Jesus loves you, '82)
Take the one that got away, Kon... gets what, $500k per from Duke? Kon, take the $. It's the smart play. Leave the scholly for, say, Little Rico. Little Rico, you got a $10 handshake? Take the scholly, the tutors, training table, Duke swag etc etc. (yes, Kon gets the tutors, training table etc too)
Choices. Beautiful. Both play college ball. Kon makes large $...as much as possible I hope. Awesome! You'll cover your tuition while here, then off to the pro's in a year or two. Billy? No $ kiddo...but the 'marketplace' dictates this. However...Full ride! No debt. You'll make connections from being on the team, maybe run AutoZone or Krogers in a few years, possibly making more $ than Kon!!
A marketplace with options. Perfect.
Or, do what we're doing now. Everyone gets a scholly, and bag, and 'college' ball is a less talented gleague with 'academic obligations' because, after all, we are here for a degree. My take. I get it, you all disagree. Next.

I know you have been consistent in your point, but I just don't understand WHY this is an issue.

Fine.  Get rid of scholarships and just give the players contracts.  Problem solved.  Next.

Which would be more expensive for the schools. The marginal costs related to a scholarship are significantly less than the value of that scholarship to the student athlete.

[Viper]

So what does this accomplish other than screw over private schools like Marquette?

"Hey Kam, we got you a $100K for the upcoming season but you're going to have to pay us $45K for tuition. Oh, Tennessee will give you $100K and you only need to pay $5K for tuition? Yeah that sounds like a better deal. Yeah I know we used to be able to offer you both but some people got grumpy about it. I mean can't you play for 'your school, your teammates, classmates, fans, rivalries, or whatever'? Oh, you were already doing that because they are not mutually exclusive options? Oh and you come from a low-income family so we're asking you to choose between a better life for your family and making some fans you've never met feel all warm and fuzzy about your commitment to their favorite college basketball team? Yeah that doesn't sound like a difficult choice. But Kam, you got to understand, these guys really miss a time when the three-pointer didn't exist and dunking was illegal. It would be such a thrill for them. Whats that? Well yeah all those players were getting paid under the table but these guys like to pretend they weren't. And I know that they wax poetic about Al Maguire looking in Chones' fridge and telling him to go pro, but you should just suck it up and play for less than what the marketplace has determined you are worth. Oh you're actually calling me from Knoxville? You already told them you would be transferring? Cool cool cool cool."

I hope you hold yourself to these same standards. You better be working for the same company that gave you your first professional job and regularly turn down raises and bonuses because you work for the name on the front of your work polo, not for contracts. Of course you don't, because that would be stupid. But my guess is that you take tremendous pride in your work even though you're also accepting as much money as your company is willing to give.

talk about self righteous...you go off on a personal preference of maintaining the amateur status of college athletics. WTH? It's as simple as that, a preference of maintaining the amateur status of collegiate athletics.
If you attend the open practice on 10/05, we can discuss. I'll wear a giant name tag so as easy to find.

[Viper]

Fine.  Get rid of scholarships and just give the players contracts.  Problem solved.  Next.

I speak for the many...thx for offering nothing, again.
Enjoy your day in the closet.

[The Sultan]

What's so great about amateur athletics? Especially when you have schools making multi-million dollars and paying coaches seven figure contracts.  Why can't the players share in that revenue since, you know, they are the ones actually PLAYING the games. They are the ones mostly responsible for GENERATING that revenue.

Amateurism is a scam that the Olympics thankfully got rid of over THIRTY years ago. The fact that it took this long for the NCAA to do the same is pretty absurd.

[Billy Hoyle]

So what does this accomplish other than screw over private schools like Marquette?

"Hey Kam, we got you a $100K for the upcoming season but you're going to have to pay us $45K for tuition. Oh, Tennessee will give you $100K and you only need to pay $5K for tuition? Yeah that sounds like a better deal. Yeah I know we used to be able to offer you both but some people got grumpy about it. I mean can't you play for 'your school, your teammates, classmates, fans, rivalries, or whatever'? Oh, you were already doing that because they are not mutually exclusive options? Oh and you come from a low-income family so we're asking you to choose between a better life for your family and making some fans you've never met feel all warm and fuzzy about your commitment to their favorite college basketball team? Yeah that doesn't sound like a difficult choice. But Kam, you got to understand, these guys really miss a time when the three-pointer didn't exist and dunking was illegal. It would be such a thrill for them. Whats that? Well yeah all those players were getting paid under the table but these guys like to pretend they weren't. And I know that they wax poetic about Al Maguire looking in Chones' fridge and telling him to go pro, but you should just suck it up and play for less than what the marketplace has determined you are worth. Oh you're actually calling me from Knoxville? You already told them you would be transferring? Cool cool cool cool."

I hope you hold yourself to these same standards. You better be working for the same company that gave you your first professional job and regularly turn down raises and bonuses because you work for the name on the front of your work polo, not for contracts. Of course you don't, because that would be stupid. But my guess is that you take tremendous pride in your work even though you're also accepting as much money as your company is willing to give.

don't forget the taxes Kam will have to pay on that private school scholarship too. Much like the pros, he will be taxed in every state in which he plays a game too.

[Uncle Rico]

I speak for the many...thx for offering nothing, again.
Enjoy your day in the closet.

I offered a solution.  Get rid of scholarships.  Amateurism is dead.  Pine for it all you want.  If you think NIL is going away, the transfer portal is going away and players are just going to take a scholarship and shut up and dribble, well, good luck with that. 

That isn't a solution that is going to happen.