Best Shooter Ever Discussion

[Herman Cain]

Steph
Bird
Pistol Pete
Rick Barry
Jerry West
The Big O

[The Sultan]

Steph
Bird
Pistol Pete
Rick Barry
Jerry West
The Big O

lol...cmon...

[MU82]

I also join the Curry chorus. Given the number he takes, the variety of shots he takes, and the difficulty factor in many of them, it makes his great stats all the better.

But I'd caution against dismissing pre-court-spacing-is-everything era guys just because their stats aren't as gaudy. For example, Larry Bird didn't take all that many 3s as a regular part of Boston's offense; so many of his attempts came in difficult, pressure situations - end of game, end of shot clock, desperation time, etc. I posit that if he were playing today, and took a half-dozen 3s a game - many of them wide open - as just a function of the Celtics' normal offense, his percentage would be well higher than it was.

Obviously, there's no way for me to "prove" that theory, but I do think there's merit to it.

Curry is absurd, though. That nail-in-coffin 3 he hit ... that was just stoopid!

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

Ners

[MU82]

Ners

Shooter, not dunker.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

What about if they took off from the three point line

[The Sultan]

I also join the Curry chorus. Given the number he takes, the variety of shots he takes, and the difficulty factor in many of them, it makes his great stats all the better.

But I'd caution against dismissing pre-court-spacing-is-everything era guys just because their stats aren't as gaudy. For example, Larry Bird didn't take all that many 3s as a regular part of Boston's offense; so many of his attempts came in difficult, pressure situations - end of game, end of shot clock, desperation time, etc. I posit that if he were playing today, and took a half-dozen 3s a game - many of them wide open - as just a function of the Celtics' normal offense, his percentage would be well higher than it was.

Obviously, there's no way for me to "prove" that theory, but I do think there's merit to it.

Curry is absurd, though. That nail-in-coffin 3 he hit ... that was just stoopid!

That is about as ridiculous a defense of Bird as I have ever read. And doesn't match one bit of how I remember his game.

There is way too much romanticism of Bird as a player that the stats just don't back up.

[WhiteTrash]

Craig Hodges.

[The Sultan]

Craig Hodges.

Lifetime 40% three point shooter with little additional value. Novak was a better shooter.

[lawdog77]

That is about as ridiculous a defense of Bird as I have ever read. And doesn't match one bit of how I remember his game.

There is way too much romanticism of Bird as a player that the stats just don't back up.

Yeah, in his first nine years in the league-3 MVP's, 2nd in voting 4 times, a third, and a 4th. Way too much romanticism  . Not sure what "stats" you are talking about.
Bird's first 5 years, he played power forward and averaged about 1 3 pt shot a game. When McHale was moved to the PF starting position, Bird swithced to SF and then shot more 3's at a rate of about 42%. His 3pt % was about 40% higher than the league average.

[MU82]

That is about as ridiculous a defense of Bird as I have ever read. And doesn't match one bit of how I remember his game.

There is way too much romanticism of Bird as a player that the stats just don't back up.

Cool.

[The Sultan]

Yeah, in his first nine years in the league-3 MVP's, 2nd in voting 4 times, a third, and a 4th. Way too much romanticism  . Not sure what "stats" you are talking about.
Bird's first 5 years, he played power forward and averaged about 1 3 pt shot a game. When McHale was moved to the PF starting position, Bird swithced to SF and then shot more 3's at a rate of about 42%. His 3pt % was about 40% higher than the league average.

82's excuse is that he shot late in the shot clock. Yours is that he played the wrong position I guess. Both are just strange.

Very good shooter. Not in the "best shooter ever" discussion.

[MuggsyB]

That is about as ridiculous a defense of Bird as I have ever read. And doesn't match one bit of how I remember his game.

There is way too much romanticism of Bird as a player that the stats just don't back up.

Excuse me, but how can their be "too much romanticism" about Larry Bird when you look at his stats, MVP's, and three titles?

[The Sultan]

Excuse me, but how can their be "too much romanticism" about Larry Bird when you look at his stats, MVP's, and three titles?

He's not a top 10 player all time.

[lawdog77]

82's excuse is that he shot late in the shot clock. Yours is that he played the wrong position I guess. Both are just strange.

Very good shooter. Not in the "best shooter ever" discussion.

How is my reasoning strange? He switched to SF, and outside shots were there for him. Back then, PF's didnt work outside much. His 3s he took as a PF fits 82's narrative.

[Jockey]

Very good shooter. Not in the "best shooter ever" discussion.

I agree with this.

I disagree that he is not a top 10 all-timer.

[The Sultan]

How is my reasoning strange? He switched to SF, and outside shots were there for him. Back then, PF's didnt work outside much. His 3s he took as a PF fits 82's narrative.

"My bad narrative is supported by another bad narrative."

[MuggsyB]

He's not a top 10 player all time.

So if you slot him top 15, not top 10, you're no longer "romanticizing him"? 

[The Sultan]

So if you slot him top 15, not top 10, you're no longer "romanticizing him"? 

Yes.

[lawdog77]

"My bad narrative is supported by another bad narrative."

keep digging. You seem to be basing on your memory from 35 years ago, as opposed to data (look at his 3 point rate and attempts after he switched), MVP placings, 3 point contest.

[MuggsyB]

Yes.

I see.  Enlighten us Fluffy and name your non-negotiable top 15 players.

[The Sultan]

keep digging. You seem to be basing on your memory from 35 years ago, as opposed to data (look at his 3 point rate and attempts after he switched), MVP placings, 3 point contest.

I'm not digging anything. I never said he didn't deserve MVP trophies. You are making arguments I am not.

Oh and you have introduced another poor reasoning for why he shouldn't be considered in the all time best shooter discussion. As poor as 82's.

[Its DJOver]

And could've just been a post in the NBA thread.

I'm not sure who could debate it. So I guess we can shut the thread down.

Not sure why there was a post after this one.

Everyone agrees it's not debatable so they all start arguing about what requirements are needed to be in the discussion? Seems overly scoopish even for the offseason. Guess some are only happy when they're arguing.

[MU82]

I'm not digging anything. I never said he didn't deserve MVP trophies. You are making arguments I am not.

Oh and you have introduced another poor reasoning for why he shouldn't be considered in the all time best shooter discussion. As poor as 82's.

Cool.

Not sure why there was a post after this one.

Everyone agrees it's not debatable so they all start arguing about what requirements are needed to be in the discussion? Seems overly scoopish even for the offseason. Guess some are only happy when they're arguing.

Yep.

[The Sultan]

Not sure why there was a post after this one.

Everyone agrees it's not debatable so they all start arguing about what requirements are needed to be in the discussion? Seems overly scoopish even for the offseason. Guess some are only happy when they're arguing.

It's very easy to not participate in a discussion you don't want to participate in.