Big Week for Markus

[The Sultan]

For anyone who came to their Marquette fandom in the last 30 years, it was.

Then they're just spoiled morons.

[brewcity77]

Then they're just spoiled morons.

I think this is just condescending BS. You live in the context of the world around you.

Since 1993, we have gone to 19/30 NCAA tournaments. Every coach except one has won a tourney game. Every coach except one has no more than 1 losing season.

Wojo had zero NCAA wins, is tied for fewest NCAA appearances despite the second longest tenure, and is the only coach in that stretch with multiple losing seasons. For pretty much everyone under the age of 40, Wojo is the least successful coach in their living memory.

Being honest enough to acknowledge that for probably half the fanbase his tenure was rock bottom for the program isn't being spoiled, it's simply acknowledging the reality of the past 30 years.

[The Sultan]

I think this is just condescending BS. You live in the context of the world around you.

Since 1993, we have gone to 19/30 NCAA tournaments. Every coach except one has won a tourney game. Every coach except one has no more than 1 losing season.

Wojo had zero NCAA wins, is tied for fewest NCAA appearances despite the second longest tenure, and is the only coach in that stretch with multiple losing seasons. For pretty much everyone under the age of 40, Wojo is the least successful coach in their living memory.

Being honest enough to acknowledge that for probably half the fanbase his tenure was rock bottom for the program isn't being spoiled, it's simply acknowledging the reality of the past 30 years.

They're spoiled morons.

"The context of the world around you" doesn't mean looking only at Marquette and only at the time you were following the program. Anybody looking around college basketball can find examples of once proud programs whose "rock bottom" was a hell of a lot worse than making a couple NCAA tournaments. There's examples IN OUR OWN CONFERENCE FFS.

So yeah...I will be condescending to people who don't want to acknowledge Markus' accomplishments because they had to live through the horrors the Wojo-era. Boo-f*cking-hoo.

I expect more from our fans. You should too.

[swoopem]

I think this is just condescending BS. You live in the context of the world around you.

Since 1993, we have gone to 19/30 NCAA tournaments. Every coach except one has won a tourney game. Every coach except one has no more than 1 losing season.

Wojo had zero NCAA wins, is tied for fewest NCAA appearances despite the second longest tenure, and is the only coach in that stretch with multiple losing seasons. For pretty much everyone under the age of 40, Wojo is the least successful coach in their living memory.

Being honest enough to acknowledge that for probably half the fanbase his tenure was rock bottom for the program isn't being spoiled, it's simply acknowledging the reality of the past 30 years.

But it's their fault they weren't around for Al

Signed,

2010 grad

[StillAWarrior]

I think this is just condescending BS. You live in the context of the world around you.

Since 1993, we have gone to 19/30 NCAA tournaments. Every coach except one has won a tourney game. Every coach except one has no more than 1 losing season.

Wojo had zero NCAA wins, is tied for fewest NCAA appearances despite the second longest tenure, and is the only coach in that stretch with multiple losing seasons. For pretty much everyone under the age of 40, Wojo is the least successful coach in their living memory.

Being honest enough to acknowledge that for probably half the fanbase his tenure was rock bottom for the program isn't being spoiled, it's simply acknowledging the reality of the past 30 years.

I think that this is a good post. In addition to the losing seasons, Wojo had a couple seasons that were going really well and then the wheels fell off completely. As someone who started my Marquette fandom during the Dukiet days, in some ways I felt that the Wojo years were even worse. Objectively? Admittedly not. But subjectively, I was far, far more disappointed by a couple of those Wojo teams than I ever was with a team under Dukiet. A couple of those seasons were just soul-crushingly disappointing.

[lawdog77]

They're spoiled morons.

"The context of the world around you" doesn't mean looking only at Marquette and only at the time you were following the program. Anybody looking around college basketball can find examples of once proud programs whose "rock bottom" was a hell of a lot worse than making a couple NCAA tournaments. There's examples IN OUR OWN CONFERENCE FFS.

So yeah...I will be condescending to people who don't want to acknowledge Markus' accomplishments because they had to live through the horrors the Wojo-era. Boo-f*cking-hoo.

I expect more from our fans. You should too.

I agree. If Wojo is our bottom (which I think his tenure and Deane's are pretty close), we should feel lucky.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

If thinking Wojo was a mediocre coach not up to the standard of what Marquette basketball is cool then call me Miles Davis.

[lawdog77]

If thinking Wojo was a mediocre coach not up to the standard of what Marquette basketball is cool then call me Miles Davis.

I don't think anyone is arguing against that. I think people are arguing against the notion that we should destroy all evidence of Wojo being here.

[brewcity77]

They're spoiled morons.

"The context of the world around you" doesn't mean looking only at Marquette and only at the time you were following the program. Anybody looking around college basketball can find examples of once proud programs whose "rock bottom" was a hell of a lot worse than making a couple NCAA tournaments. There's examples IN OUR OWN CONFERENCE FFS.

So yeah...I will be condescending to people who don't want to acknowledge Markus' accomplishments because they had to live through the horrors the Wojo-era. Boo-f*cking-hoo.

I expect more from our fans. You should too.

It's possible to both acknowledge how great Howard was and what a failure the Wojo era was.

Strong "old man yells at cloud" vibes from you this morning.

[The Sultan]

It's possible to both acknowledge how great Howard was and what a failure the Wojo era was.

I never said his era wasn't a failure. He was fired after all. But Marquette's "failures" are a lot better than other's. People need to put things in proper context. You don't refuse to acknowledge your leading scorer...the conference's leading scorer...because of the coach. That's just silliness.

Strong "old man yells at cloud" vibes from you this morning.

Weird. Not doing that at all.

[Elonsmusk]

I don't blame Markus, I blame Wojo for that team falling apart.

Markus was doing what was asked of him.

I generally agree with this analysis.  However, I also feel Markus could have independently chosen to play more team oriented basketball - as in not launch step back 27 footers less than 10 seconds into the shot clock, as he could get that shot pretty much anytime he wanted.  That aside, he was an incredible talent, yet I can understand why his other capable offensively talented offensive players grew tired of the style, and tired of Wojo.

But Markus is a great rep for MU, and I feel certainly worthy of having his number in the rafters despite not having any postseason success - Wojo was simply a poor coach and hard to overcome poor coaching.

Also, Markus gave the current team a phenomenal speech the other day - one of the most impressive I have seen by any former MU player.  Great message for our current players to hear.

[The Lens]

With Dukiet Marquette was spending like they were considering going DIII. 

With Wojo Marquette was spending near the top 10 schools in the country. 

You tell me who's the bigger failure.

[Hards Alumni]

They're spoiled morons.

"The context of the world around you" doesn't mean looking only at Marquette and only at the time you were following the program. Anybody looking around college basketball can find examples of once proud programs whose "rock bottom" was a hell of a lot worse than making a couple NCAA tournaments. There's examples IN OUR OWN CONFERENCE FFS.

So yeah...I will be condescending to people who don't want to acknowledge Markus' accomplishments because they had to live through the horrors the Wojo-era. Boo-f*cking-hoo.

I expect more from our fans. You should too.

I can imagine what will be, unburdened by what was.

[MU82]

Markus was a great warrior.

[swoopem]

At the end of his speech yesterday he said he's gonna be around for a few days and mentioned getting in the gym. I hope #mubb Twitter releases some clips of him hoopin with the fellas. Would be fun to see

[The Lens]

I agree. If Wojo is our bottom (which I think his tenure and Deane's are pretty close), we should feel lucky.

We went 10 years without a tourney win.  We spent more on basketball that anyone but 8-10 schools.  The Wojo era was an absolute failure. I don't how bad Georgetown or DePaul is.  They don't invest in basketball we did and saw nothing. 

[The Sultan]

We spent more on basketball that anyone but 8-10 schools. 

Can we please stop throwing this out? Its not an apples to apples comparison because Marquette's figures include the Fiserv lease.

Regardless, of course it was a failure. Not one is saying otherwise.

[Viper]

I think that this is a good post. In addition to the losing seasons, Wojo had a couple seasons that were going really well and then the wheels fell off completely. As someone who started my Marquette fandom during the Dukiet days, in some ways I felt that the Wojo years were even worse. Objectively? Admittedly not. But subjectively, I was far, far more disappointed by a couple of those Wojo teams than I ever was with a team under Dukiet. A couple of those seasons were just soul-crushingly disappointing.

Dukiet was rock bottom. I mean, we got scolded by Digger Phelps on the PA during a game...in Milwaukee, for crying out loud!!  Wojo did some good things here...recruited well, had some decent wins, beat RED more than he lost to RED, and rep'd the University at a high level. I think we all agree on this. And unlike Mike Deane, for example, Wojo was asked to fix a clogged toilet courtesy of Buzz. But, I do understand the disappointment. Gotta win, and Wojo didn't win enough.

[The Sultan]

Dukiet was rock bottom. I mean, we got scolded by Digger Phelps on the PA during a game...in Milwaukee, for crying out loud!!  Wojo did some good things here...recruited well, had some decent wins, beat RED more than he lost to RED, and rep'd the University at a high level. I think we all agree on this. And unlike Mike Deane, for example, Wojo was asked to fix a clogged toilet courtesy of Buzz. But, I do understand the disappointment. Gotta win, and Wojo didn't win enough.

Well stated.

[dgies9156]

It's possible to both acknowledge how great Howard was and what a failure the Wojo era was.

No.

One is the product of the other.

I like Markus and he was a great ballplayer. But he reminded me of the late Gary Rosenberger. Tremendous shot, tremendous offense but could not play defense to save his life. Gary never started and Al went after Jim Boylan because he knew this. Markus was a great complement who was called on to lead because of bad coaching.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I want to remember people in the rafters who transformed the program. That's why Jimmy B, Jae Crowder, Big Mac, Tyler and Oso all belong in the rafters, with Jim Chones. Markus didn't transform the program.

I'm probably never going to be convinced on Markus.

[The Sultan]

No.

One is the product of the other.

I like Markus and he was a great ballplayer. But he reminded me of the late Gary Rosenberger. Tremendous shot, tremendous offense but could not play defense to save his life. Gary never started and Al went after Jim Boylan because he knew this. Markus was a great complement who was called on to lead because of bad coaching.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I want to remember people in the rafters who transformed the program. That's why Jimmy B, Jae Crowder, Big Mac, Tyler and Oso all belong in the rafters, with Jim Chones. Markus didn't transform the program.

I'm probably never going to be convinced on Markus.

Silliness. Honestly comparing Markus Howard to....Gary Rosenberger? Cmon...

[wadesworld]

No.

One is the product of the other.

I like Markus and he was a great ballplayer. But he reminded me of the late Gary Rosenberger. Tremendous shot, tremendous offense but could not play defense to save his life. Gary never started and Al went after Jim Boylan because he knew this. Markus was a great complement who was called on to lead because of bad coaching.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I want to remember people in the rafters who transformed the program. That's why Jimmy B, Jae Crowder, Big Mac, Tyler and Oso all belong in the rafters, with Jim Chones. Markus didn't transform the program.

I'm probably never going to be convinced on Markus.

I see Cardinals' fans attitudes carry over to their other favorite sports teams. 

[Skatastrophy]

At the end of his speech yesterday he said he's gonna be around for a few days and mentioned getting in the gym. I hope #mubb Twitter releases some clips of him hoopin with the fellas. Would be fun to see

The whole team standing around waiting for a pass watching Markus shoot. Kam in the corner writing a letter.

[PGsHeroes32]

No.

One is the product of the other.

I like Markus and he was a great ballplayer. But he reminded me of the late Gary Rosenberger. Tremendous shot, tremendous offense but could not play defense to save his life. Gary never started and Al went after Jim Boylan because he knew this. Markus was a great complement who was called on to lead because of bad coaching.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I want to remember people in the rafters who transformed the program. That's why Jimmy B, Jae Crowder, Big Mac, Tyler and Oso all belong in the rafters, with Jim Chones. Markus didn't transform the program.

I'm probably never going to be convinced on Markus.

Wildly selling Markus short(maybe a pun) defensively.

Good? No.

Rowsey? Hell no.

Legit played together

If you don't wanna be a fan of the all time leading scorer. Fine I guess. But let's try and be objective. This post was not that.

[tower912]

I would compare Markus at MU to Matthew Stafford with Detroit, or to Mike Trout.