Is America a Christian Theocracy?

[reinko]

82

I 100% support anyone's religious choice and even those that choose to have no faith in their lives. I am not celebrating LA's decision, but not going to bash them for that decision.

I am a small government guy and respect decisions that are made that reflect the beliefs of individual state. I won't throw out a crazy analogy, but if state decided to do something completely against my beliefs but if reflected the beliefs of the citizens, I'm not going to bitch about it.


reinko
I agree that daily acts of kindness and service is how we all should live and the older I get the more I understand that. Not sure what that has to do with my question to Skatastrophy.

I guess I just assumed being a good person a daily basis did not need to be addressed. Thought that was a given.

Will take your comment about being a good person as given 🤝

Now, on the small government thing, I've never gotten a straight answer on this.  Why does "small" government always be at the state level?  Why not at the county level, or city level?  If cities or counties in LA want opt out of this, why can't they?  I mean this is the definition of local rights?

[tower912]

I think an argument can be made that Sanctuary cities are actually following biblical teachings in regard to treatment of the immigrant.

[jesmu84]

I think an argument can be made that Sanctuary cities are actually following biblical teachings in regard to treatment of the immigrant.

Would Jesus have helped criminals?

[tower912]

We know he would have forgiven them. 

[NCMUFan]

Goose, so you'd be good with Koran doctrine being posted in public schools?

Also, you seem like a "small government" and "parent's rights" guy. You're ok with government choosing the religion that kids must worship? You're ok with "indoctrinating" kids as long as you happen to agree with the material?

Also, you're ok with using millions of dollars in taxpayer money to defend this policy when it's appealed all the way to the Supreme Court?

So MU82, say we never heard of the 10 Commandments and those 10 Commandments were just written as a poster and placed on the bulletin boards at the school.  Would any of those 10 Commandments offend you or you object to?

[MU82]

I 100% support anyone's religious choice and even those that choose to have no faith in their lives. I am not celebrating LA's decision, but not going to bash them for that decision.

I am a small government guy and respect decisions that are made that reflect the beliefs of individual state. I won't throw out a crazy analogy, but if state decided to do something completely against my beliefs but if reflected the beliefs of the citizens, I'm not going to bitch about it.

Thanks for the answer, Goose.

No state has a set religious doctrine. Religion is an individual thing - which one to follow (or none at all). It is not up to the state to impose Christianity on its citizens. This is Constitution 101, and we'll see if this Supreme Court will enforce the law of the land.

And if you are for small government, you absolutely should bash this new law. You can't get more big government than "You will follow this religion or else!"

[MU82]

So MU82, say we never heard of the 10 Commandments and those 10 Commandments were just written as a poster and placed on the bulletin boards at the school.  Would any of those 10 Commandments offend you or you object to?

So NCMUFan, say we never heard of atheism and signs saying, "God does not exist!" were just written as a poster and placed on the bulletin boards at the school. Would that offend you?

[Goose]

Fluff

Going to a religious service should be meaningful and I thought that was a given. What does that have to do with anything?

reinko
I'm all for local governments handling their affairs, regardless if I agree with them or not. There are city government in SE WI that I do not agree with some of their calls, but respect their right to make the calls.

[NCMUFan]

So NCMUFan, say we never heard of atheism and signs saying, "God does not exist!" were just written as a poster and placed on the bulletin boards at the school. Would that offend you?

No, I would just think that whoever wrote it was an idiot, then ask to have a poster that says "God exists" and move on.

[MU82]

No, I would just think that whoever wrote it was an idiot, then ask to have a poster that says "God exists" and move on.

Cool. Except I don't believe that you'd just move on. You'd be calling it to the principal's attention - as you well should.

As for your question, sorry, but I can't pretend that those who impose their religious beliefs on others don't exist. I wish they didn't exist; the world would be a much better place.

[Goose]

NCMUFan

I agree completely. That would not offend me and I would wonder who the idiot was that put it up. I am not easily offended and that poster would not move my needle, other than to make me chuckle.

[The Sultan]

Fluff

Going to a religious service should be meaningful and I thought that was a given. What does that have to do with anything?

Well, when you said this...

Are you happy that only 30% of Americans attend Mass regularly?

...why do you think that's the case?

[Goose]

Fluff

I have no idea how your question relates to my question to Skatastrophy. I assume everyone goes to a religious service for a meaningful experience. It appeared to me that Skatastrophy thought that was a good stat and I asked for clarification.

Again, what does your question or point have to do with my question?

[Lennys Tap]

I think an argument can be made that Sanctuary cities are actually following biblical teachings in regard to treatment of the immigrant.

Lots of arguments can be made.

I think governments having the right to have and enforce laws on immigration fall pretty easily into the "render unto Caesar" clause.

[tower912]

I am all about rendering unto Caesar, Lenny.   For fun, please list the biblical verses that advocate fearing immigrants and treating them poorly.   

[4everwarriors]

I think an argument can be made that Sanctuary cities are actually following biblical teachings in regard to treatment of the immigrant.

I think you mean the illegal immigrants. Waitin' on da BOTUS lettin' in da Palestinians next, hey?

[The Sultan]

I have no idea how your question relates to my question to Skatastrophy. 

If you're going to use this opportunity to do your intentionally obtuse bit, then I'm not going to engage with you. Because it's pretty f*cking obvious.

[Goose]

Fluff

To be honest, I have no idea how your post on attending a religious service should be meaning relates to me question. I was curious if Skatastrophy thought 30% was a positive number, disappointing number or if they did not care number.

[Skatastrophy]

Religion should not be shoved down the throats of children.

NCMUFan

I'm with you.

Skatastrophy

Are you happy that only 30% of Americans attend Mass regularly?

Not 30% of people attending mass, 30% regularly attend any religious service. And not every week even, but regular enough. That's a number that's continuing to drop which is a positive in the context of this thread.

The premise of the thread is asking the question if the Christofascists in the USA are trying to establish a theocracy. By definition they are, and hopefully they don't have the votes. As the attendance of religious services declines, so is the likelihood that there's ever a large enough voting block to continue supporting the religious far-right. Not all churches are the problem, but I don't have a better measure of attendance in specifically extremist congregations so the aggregated numbers will have to do.

[Lennys Tap]

I am all about rendering unto Caesar, Lenny.   For fun, please list the biblical verses that advocate fearing immigrants and treating them poorly.

Why does having consequences for people who knowingly break federal laws equal treating said lawbreakers poorly? And which bible verses say that shielding those breaking legit laws is OK?

Re fear, people fear what they don't know. Not much in the way of vetting for illegals, hence fear. If most of those same people were entering legally the fear is pretty much eliminated.

[tower912]

Cool. 

[MU82]

Some of the issues we all discuss on Scoop have a lot of nuance annd complexities. This really is not one of those. Either the First Amendment matters and it's followed, or America might as well not have a Constitution.

[The Sultan]

Why does having consequences for people who knowingly break federal laws equal treating said lawbreakers poorly? And which bible verses say that shielding those breaking legit laws is OK?

Re fear, people fear what they don't know. Not much in the way of vetting for illegals, hence fear. If most of those same people were entering legally the fear is pretty much eliminated.

There are plenty of verses that say people should generally follow civil laws. There are also plenty of verses that mention ignoring laws that are unjust. Where that line lies depends on the reader.

I personally think that providing shelter to those who are oppressed or facing economic difficulty is more important than rigidly following our immigration laws.

[tower912]

And don't even bring up Leviticus.

[reinko]

Fluff

Going to a religious service should be meaningful and I thought that was a given. What does that have to do with anything?

reinko
I'm all for local governments handling their affairs, regardless if I agree with them or not. There are city government in SE WI that I do not agree with some of their calls, but respect their right to make the calls.

Ok great, up next women's right to healthcare and abortion.  Open it up to counties, cities, HOAs...