2025 WNBA Thread

[Pakuni]

You have a lot of feelings for something so unwatchable

Panda cares so little about the WNBA that he writes 500-word screeds about the WNBA.

[panda2.0]

Panda cares so little about the WNBA that he writes 500-word screeds about the WNBA.

I love the way Caitlin Clark plays and she drew me into watching more women's basketball. My daughters are interested as well. I'm learning to really enjoy it but it has been difficult at times given the way some players/teams play.

[Shaka Shart]

Why is A'ja Wilson so uppity, she should smile more

[MU82]

I love the way Caitlin Clark plays and she drew me into watching more women's basketball. My daughters are interested as well. I'm learning to really enjoy it but it has been difficult at times given the way some players/teams play.

You really evolved in a span of less than 28 hours, with the WNBA going from an "unwatchable" league filled with "unlikable" players to being something you "really enjoy."

Congrats?

And of course Clark changed the profile and popularity of the WNBA significantly. Every Scooper who has commented on Clark within this thread has said just that. So that part of your take was hardly revolutionary.

You simply managed to sound unhinged, amplifying your worship of one athlete by tearing down everyone else in the league.

A league you now say you really enjoy.

[The Sultan]

Now that the skells are out, here's my non coded response to the situation. I am using this disclaimer because many of the small brain people here will eagerly jump to conclusions so I want to make this abundantly clear. These are not racially or sexist motivated opinions. I am a sports fan and I am talking about sports. Nothing more than that.

The WNBA was a nothing league with the players owning minimal marketability outside of their small bubble of fans just two years ago. One player came in and changed all of that. There is minimal to no debate they would have the leverage they do now without Caitlin Clark supercharging the interest in the WNBA(watch your mouth plum). Given the massive revenue boost  the league has seen since Clark set foot in the league, the players should demand every penny they now deserve. It doesn't matter the league lost money and was nothing forever. Right now they're sitting at the bargaining table with massive leverage and they should be compensated accordingly.

Now to the mope throwing out stats of players like that determines popularity of a player across a broader spectrum of sports fan. There has been high performers in the WNBA since its inception. None of them brought in new fans. Caitlin Clark is bringing in fans who would never buy a ticket, merch etc. to a league. Granted there are bad apples with ugly motivations supporting her but for the most part, it is people who are attracted to her awesome style of play  and girls looking up to her.

Finally to that FRAUD Angel Reese. She would be on a milk carton without Caitlin Clark. Caitlin Clark carried a bad Iowa team to deep run after deep run in the NCAA tournament while Angel Reese plays on one of the best teams in the country. She beats Clark one year, looks like an absolute clown chasing her around the court taunting Clark, and then chokes the next year when it's her team putting up a classic bricktacular performance when Iowa beats them. Then there are countless times in the WNBA where Reese again looks like a total clown while trying to steal the spotlight from Clark. Clapping after the cheap shot from Carter while playing the victim the next day, cheap shot on clark this year, constantly talking about Clark and etc. It's nauseating watching her beg for the spotlight over and over again all while Clark says absolutely nothing while taking the high road over that bozo. Angel Reese is a great rebounder. She does absolutely nothing else effectively and she has made the Sky somehow even worse than before she was drafted. Without Clark she is just another name whispered about in small WNBA circles.

Yikes.

[MuggsyB]

Why was the WNBA reportedly 50 mill in the red for 2024? 

[The Sultan]

Why was the WNBA reportedly 50 mill in the red for 2024? 

Sometimes I wonder if you know if Google exists.

[MuggsyB]

I don't like Google. 

[cheebs09]

Scoopers are much more reliable than that website. If Rico doesn't have the answer, then it's not out there.

[JWags85]

On a positive note, shout out to MU legend Natasha Hiedeman for being one of the breakout stars of All Star weekend.  She and Courtney Williams are hilarious.

[panda2.0]

On a positive note, shout out to MU legend Natasha Hiedeman for being one of the breakout stars of All Star weekend.  She and Courtney Williams are hilarious.

#likable

[Uncle Rico]

Scoopers are much more reliable than that website. If Rico doesn't have the answer, then it's not out there.

I'd share the answer but Muggsy hasn't renewed his subscription

[MU82]

#likable

Unwatchable because she's a loser and a fraud. Why? Because I said so. Though I do enjoy watching her play basketball. Except when I don't. Because she's not Caitlin Clark.

[JWags85]

Courtney Williams has been a favorite of mine for awhile, even before this.  Her game is athletic, fluid, reminds me of Kyrie with her handles and how she finishes at the rim/pulls up off the dribble.  And she's just always a fun personality on the court.

She also had a great interview earlier this year. 

Everyone has seen/mocked the dumb interview with Britney Griner saying she'd beat Demarcus Cousins, ending with Auriema saying he'd mortgage his house and bet the proceeds on Cousins.  It's just silly cause acting like WNBA stars would compete/match up favorably with NBA players (who make even freakishly athletic and talented college players look silly) is a fools errand and does nothing but cheapen the talent/ability in the W.

Williams was getting interviewed courtside, I forgot by which social media outlet, and they asked what would happen if she played Lebron 1 on 1.  And she kind of did a double take and goes "what?! I'm getting my a** BEAT. I'm not scoring a POINT. Thats crazy".  Coming from a cocky and talented WNBA all star, I thought it was great and hilarious self awareness and honesty

[StillAWarrior]

I've undoubtedly watched more WNBA games in the last year than in all previous seasons combined. It's still not too many -- maybe 10-15 -- but it's something. I'd be lying if I didn't admit that Clark's popularity coming from college wasn't a big part of my interest. But I also really like the Clark/Reese thing and how Reese seems to enjoy being the heel. I think that's great for the game. And, it may be an unpopular opinion for many, but Reese really is a hell of a player. She's an amazing rebounder even if that is helped a little bit by the fact that she's a pretty bad shooter. I think the biggest strike against her for many, many people is she's not as good as Clark - which is a completely stupid way to judge her. It's ridiculous to say someone sucks just because she's not as good as one of the best players ever.

I'm honestly surprised by all the the hostility and resentment for Clark among the veterans. She's a huge part of the reason for all the new eyeballs on their league and why they're about to get a big raise.

[Pakuni]

I'm honestly surprised by all the the hostility and resentment for Clark among the veterans. She's a huge part of the reason for all the new eyeballs on their league and why they're about to get a big raise.

I don't think it's much different than some of the hostility and resentment Jordan faced early in his career. And I get it. Those veteran players grinded for years to help build/establish the league, and now some newbie comes along and before earning anything is portrayed as the league's savior ... which seems to dismiss all their prior efforts. That's not Clark's fault, and it doesn't make it make sense, but it's not unheard of or surprising.

[JWags85]

I'm honestly surprised by all the the hostility and resentment for Clark among the veterans. She's a huge part of the reason for all the new eyeballs on their league and why they're about to get a big raise.

I think we've talked about this before, but there is a weird gatekeeping phenomenon with the WNBA that sort of resembles that resentment that some longtime fans have when their favorite band gets huge and plays arenas after they saw them in 100 person venues.

Players in all sports have natural grudges against talented or majorly hyped rookies, I don't think that's unique to the WNBA.  But I think there is a segment of players who have pride, or whatever you want to call it, in what they've done over the years.  Whether it be "building" the league or being entertaining enough on their own, those players are resentful that it took some 22 year old rookie coming into the league to suddenly draw casual fans/interest/eyeballs.  Like "we're not good enough?  Screw CC, they are just seeing what was there all along."  Its stupid, it has gotten VERY petty and driven by jealously, but I understand some of the psychology behind it.

The fan reaction is fully and wholly absurd.  You don't get any credit for being a fan years ago.  Ive mentioned my friend who has season tickets to the Sky and how some of their section mates gripe about "new fans" and are annoyed by people haven't been there for awhile and try to discount their fanship/opinions.  Some of them literally have said they miss played at the UIC Pavilion.  I can see being annoyed with/resentful of the pure CC fans (bad intentions or not), but many of them are annoyed by all new fans they view as casuals.

[MU82]

I don't think it's much different than some of the hostility and resentment Jordan faced early in his career. And I get it. Those veteran players grinded for years to help build/establish the league, and now some newbie comes along and before earning anything is portrayed as the league's savior ... which seems to dismiss all their prior efforts. That's not Clark's fault, and it doesn't make it make sense, but it's not unheard of or surprising.

This.

[MU82]

I'm curious what they are owed.

Here's a good explanation from Zach Harper in The Athletic's "Bounce" newsletter:

Prior to the WNBA All-Star Game, the players came out with a massive statement on their t-shirts. The message on the black shirts in white lettering simply said, "Pay us what you owe us." The WNBA players' union is currently negotiating a new collective bargaining agreement with the league, and it's actually quite shocking what a horrendous deal WNBA players currently have.

One of the common misconceptions that comes up when WNBA players talk about getting paid is that people believe the WNBA's stars are looking to get annual salaries in the $40 million-to-$60 million range like the NBA's. The actual task is to get a similar percentage of the basketball-related income. NBA players receive between 49-51 percent of the BRI from the league's income (media contracts, merchandise sales, etc.). WNBA players earn 25 percent of the WNBA's BRI, according to the CBA, but it might actually be closer to 9.3 percent, according to Media Watch, when you factor in total league revenue.

The league has been thriving in recent years, and has seen an explosion in growth with Caitlin Clark's entrance into the league last season. Expansion teams cost $250 million, and the league just recently announced the addition of three new franchises in the coming years. While there is plenty of discussion around the league losing money (and granted, some of this is murky considering the business being intertwined with the NBA to some extent), the WNBA is seeing growth that demands it pays its players far more than what they're currently getting.

Bizarrely, there are still people on the internet and outspoken in media landscapes mocking the idea of WNBA players demanding more money. Siding with management and ownership over labor for a product you either a) care about or b) don't care about is absolute nonsense, as Sara Civian wrote on Substack:

"I don't feel like going over all the ways men jumped on the opportunity to Be Wrong In An Acceptable Way when it came to the WNBA players simply wearing shirts that were speaking to their upcoming CBA expiration on Oct. 31. The WNBA players, as they stated for all to hear, were asking for more of a revenue share than they currently have, and of course they deserve it. I shouldn't have to sit there and explain to someone who works for ESPN, or The Athletic, — or to anyone willing to enter the public sphere with an opinion — that the WNBA players aren't asking for more than NBA players. They are members of the players association speaking to the WNBA about the undeniable growth the past year has seen, and how players and their brands, shoes, commercials, names, and likeness have absolutely been a gigantic impetus."

Viewership, ticket sales and merchandise are skyrocketing in the league. Clark makes roughly $76,000 from her salary. The highest salary is $241,000 and change. The next CBA should absolutely start cutting the players a bigger check and a bigger piece of that BRI pie.

Back in 1964, the NBA All-Stars threatened to not play the All-Star Game, which was going to be the first nationally televised one, if the league didn't recognize the players union. This past weekend, the WNBA All-Stars decided to put more pressure on commissioner Cathy Engelbert and the league during these labor negotiations. If you're not for the players getting what they're owed, I can only assume you don't believe you deserve a raise at your job either. You should believe in yourself more.

[MU82]

The WNBA All-Star Game drew 2.2 million viewers, which is the second-most ever but still represents a 36% drop from last year (3.44M), when Caitlin Clark (who didn't participate this year) led her All-Star teammates against the U.S. Olympic team. (From Yahoo Sports)

[MU82]

On Jeopardy the other day, they showed a photo of a WNBA player. The guy who buzzed in said, "Who is Caitlin Clark?" The other 2 didn't guess at all.

It was Bueckers.

So close!