Transfer Portal vs. Recruiting, retaining , developing

[Jockey]

Crowl had 2 points in 28 minutes against us, as Gold outplayed him and helped our heroes rout your BIL's team.

But OK.

You really think Ben is better? A Quick Look at stats might say otherwise. And to be honest, Crowl's 2 points were more than Ben has scored in numerous games.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Ben averaged 7.3/4.2/0.9 plus a little less than a block in 25 MPG as our 5th option.  He was at 44/37/76 and averaged a little less than 6 shots per game. 

I'm too lazy to find advanced stats regarding usage, etc.

Pros:  He stretches the floor, can shoot, can handle the ball, mobile enough to not get consistently abused on switches.

Cons: Lack of rim protection, inconsistent, somewhat one-dimensional until showing some flashes in the paint late in the season.

I had hoped Shaka would have been able to use him more as a secondary creator like the did with Oso but clearly that was unrealistic and just not part of his game.  Also showed how special Oso was in that regard. 

I'm ok with Ben starting at the 5 next season but to make a real difference can he add some strength without sacrificing agility?  Can he develop more confidence and more of a killer instinct?  Can he diversify his game a bit more in regards to taking guys off the dribble more often. 

I think the talent is there but can he put it all together? 

[PointWarrior]

Ben would be a prized get in the portal for a p5 team.

For a position not at the 5.  That's the issue - not a 5, could not get a single shot off aha it's STJ.  Does not rebound well.   What is his role on this team? 

[MU82]

You really think Ben is better? A Quick Look at stats might say otherwise. And to be honest, Crowl's 2 points were more than Ben has scored in numerous games.

But not more than Ben scored in that game, not even close.

Neither is special. I wouldn't trade Gold for Crowl. I'm guessing others could make an argument for why they wouldn't trade Crowl for Gold.

I certainly don't look at our team and say, "Man, if only we had Crowl instead of Gold, we'd be Final Four bound."

Again, they had one head-to-head matchup, and Gold won it (to quote GE03) pretty easily.

[BCHoopster]

Crowl had 2 points in 28 minutes against us, as Gold outplayed him and helped our heroes rout your BIL's team.

But OK.

Crowl was horrible the first month even benched, then the light turned on, he was much better then Ben after that game

[panda2.0]

Ben averaged 7.3/4.2/0.9 plus a little less than a block in 25 MPG as our 5th option.  He was at 44/37/76 and averaged a little less than 6 shots per game. 

I'm too lazy to find advanced stats regarding usage, etc.

Pros:  He stretches the floor, can shoot, can handle the ball, mobile enough to not get consistently abused on switches.

Cons: Lack of rim protection, inconsistent, somewhat one-dimensional until showing some flashes in the paint late in the season.

I had hoped Shaka would have been able to use him more as a secondary creator like the did with Oso but clearly that was unrealistic and just not part of his game.  Also showed how special Oso was in that regard. 

I'm ok with Ben starting at the 5 next season but to make a real difference can he add some strength without sacrificing agility?  Can he develop more confidence and more of a killer instinct?  Can he diversify his game a bit more in regards to taking guys off the dribble more often. 

I think the talent is there but can he put it all together? 

For a big who can stretch the floor and shoot playing on a team who needed a guy who could consistently knock down outside shots and score off the bounce, he sure had a ton of milk carton games.

[JakeBarnes]

For a position not at the 5.  That's the issue - not a 5, could not get a single shot off aha it's STJ.  Does not rebound well.   What is his role on this team? 

If you can't figure that out, I don't know what to tell you

[MU82]

Crowl was horrible the first month even benched, then the light turned on, he was much better then Ben after that game

Man, you are desperate to hate on all things Marquette.

Gold clearly outplayed Crowl, head-to-head, helping Marquette thump the Weasels. Sorry if that bothers you.

[#UnleashSean]

" you can have an agent if you want to but our collective isn't negotiating with him/her......so you're wasting your money." 

This is more the truth.

[Viper]

But not more than Ben scored in that game, not even close.

Neither is special. I wouldn't trade Gold for Crowl. I'm guessing others could make an argument for why they wouldn't trade Crowl for Gold.

I certainly don't look at our team and say, "Man, if only we had Crowl instead of Gold, we'd be Final Four bound."

Again, they had one head-to-head matchup, and Gold won it (to quote GE03) pretty easily.

based on what Marquette needs and what Gold has delivered, I'd take Crowl. Actually I prefer neither (you hearing me, Elon?), but if the choice is between the two, Crowl.

[The Sultan]

based on what Marquette needs and what Gold has delivered, I'd take Crowl. Actually I prefer neither (you hearing me, Elon?), but if the choice is between the two, Crowl.

I think this is a sound opinion.

[Zog from Margo]

My thought is that using Ben solely as a face-up player allows opponents to switch too easily. When Ben has a guy on him who's 6" shorter, I'd like to see him go straight to the block. IMO, he needs to add a post-up game and the system should be tweaked to allow for it. There are worse things than getting Ben to the line.

[BCHoopster]

Man, you are desperate to hate on all things Marquette.

Gold clearly outplayed Crowl, head-to-head, helping Marquette thump the Weasels. Sorry if that bothers you.

So wrong, just telling the truth, Crowl is more of a center then Gold, Gold is totally playing out of position, Gold plays more like Nolan Winter.

[Newsdreams]

My thought is that using Ben solely as a face-up player allows opponents to switch too easily. When Ben has a guy on him who's 6" shorter, I'd like to see him go straight to the block. IMO, he needs to add a post-up game and the system should be tweaked to allow for it. There are worse things than getting Ben to the line.

Shaka / Nevada don't really use a post-up game

[GoldenEagles03]

But not more than Ben scored in that game, not even close.

Neither is special. I wouldn't trade Gold for Crowl. I'm guessing others could make an argument for why they wouldn't trade Crowl for Gold.

I certainly don't look at our team and say, "Man, if only we had Crowl instead of Gold, we'd be Final Four bound."

Again, they had one head-to-head matchup, and Gold won it (to quote GE03) pretty easily.

Hey, funny is funny. I laughed!

[Pakuni]

My thought is that using Ben solely as a face-up player allows opponents to switch too easily. When Ben has a guy on him who's 6" shorter, I'd like to see him go straight to the block. IMO, he needs to add a post-up game and the system should be tweaked to allow for it. There are worse things than getting Ben to the line.

This is a good take.
I don't even think the system needs to be tweaked. While not a "traditional" pivot, Oso played in the post. Kur Kuath played in the post. When Hamilton subs in, he plays in the post. The system allows for it. Ben just either chooses not to or the coaches won't allow him to do it.

[MU82]

So wrong, just telling the truth, Crowl is more of a center then Gold, Gold is totally playing out of position, Gold plays more like Nolan Winter.

Actually, the truth is that the playing-out-of-position guy far outplayed the Weasels' center.

The rest are opinions. You're entitled to one, as am I, as is everybody else here.

But Crowl managed 2 points against Gold, who had 9 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists and a block to help Marquette beat Crowl's team by 14 points. And that's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

[BCHoopster]

Actually, the truth is that the playing-out-of-position guy far outplayed the Weasels' center.

The rest are opinions. You're entitled to one, as am I, as is everybody else here.

But Crowl managed 2 points against Gold, who had 9 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists and a block to help Marquette beat Crowl's team by 14 points. And that's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

.

Agreed, Crowl was outplayed by Ben, I stated Crowl the first month was bad, got benched.  Then he played much better since. He is a post player but he can go out and shoot the 3's. Has a more diverse game than Ben.  To many games Ben was a non-factor, how about 33-0 against St Johns

[MU82]

.

Agreed, Crowl was outplayed by Ben, I stated Crowl the first month was bad, got benched.  Then he played much better since. He is a post player but he can go out and shoot the 3's. Has a more diverse game than Ben.  To many games Ben was a non-factor, how about 33-0 against St Johns

Crowl played so well yesterday that he made all of 1 shot, and his Weasels lost to underdog Michigan in the B18G title game. More truth.

[GB Warrior]

The ship hasn't sailed on Ben, but I also think we should stop banking on linear progression. I think we would all settle for his 'on' moments to be a bit more frequent. It felt like when we got him rolling to the rim early, it gave him a boost.

[MU82]

The ship hasn't sailed on Ben, but I also think we should stop banking on linear progression. I think we would all settle for his 'on' moments to be a bit more frequent. It felt like when we got him rolling to the rim early, it gave him a boost.

Agree with all of this. I, for one, am definitely not "banking" on anything regarding Ben. There are only so many very good (or even good) bigs out there.

Gold definitely improved from last season to this, there still are ways for his game to grow more, and this coaching staff has a track record of helping players get better. So, I choose to be optimistic that he will get at least a little better at doing what's asked of him next season.

Would I rather Marquette had a better center? Of course - I'd rather us have a beast in the middle! But I'm realistic enough to know that's unlikely to happen. So I'll trust Shaka and root for Gold - instead of constantly focusing on what Ben isn't, as some (not you) do.

[JakeBarnes]

I feel like Shaka really missed on getting Jokic to Marquette.

[BCHoopster]

Crowl played so well yesterday that he made all of 1 shot, and his Weasels lost to underdog Michigan in the B18G title game. More truth.

Truth be known, I do not want either of those centers, rather have that kid on St. John's! You agree on that?

[Viper]

Truth be known, I do not want either of those centers, rather have that kid on St. John's! You agree on that?

if he doesn't, he's crazy. Just sayin'

[MU82]

Truth be known, I do not want either of those centers, rather have that kid on St. John's! You agree on that?

Obviously. Sorber or Kalkbrenner, too. A few others, as well.

But some of y'all act as if outstanding bigs are easy-peasy to get. There's a reason why Marquette has had one "aircraft carrier" - Robert Jackson - in the last three decades. And even Jackson was around for only one year.

Davante didn't play defense. He also was one of several developmental bigs that Buzz took a flier on; he just happened to work out as a good below-the-rim scorer. Hopefully, we'll all eventually be happy that Shaka took a flier on Clark.

And for the record, I'm not at all opposed to Marquette landing this center from Iowa if he really wants to transfer to our program. All I've said is that Shaka would have to do a very good job communicating to his players if it happened, and that it could possibly lead to some dominoes falling (which might not necessarily even be a bad thing).