Mortgage rates and the housing market

[rocket surgeon]

So is your assertion that if they weren't here there would be adequate housing for everyone? Because there are studies that suggest the exact opposite. By free-market libertarians!

https://reason.com/volokh/2024/05/02/how-immigration-restrictions-reduce-housing-construction-and-exacerbate-shortages/

  just saying all those millions of illegals allowed to walk across our border has to have some impact.  they can't all stay in tents, especially in the colder climates.  if there is a shortage of affordable housing not counting the illegals, then it sounds like it is probably worse than advertised.

saying we have a housing shortage, but denying the 20 million illegals (or whatever the number is) is having or not having an affect is counter intuitive to say the least.   

[rocket surgeon]

Such a weird little guy.

  what's weird about this ficke?  cuz i'm a deeper thinker than you?  you all good with our "secure" border?  the economic affect/effect, not to mention all the other obvious problems, was so avoidable, 

[The Sultan]

  just saying all those millions of illegals allowed to walk across our border has to have some impact.  they can't all stay in tents, especially in the colder climates.  if there is a shortage of affordable housing not counting the illegals, then it sounds like it is probably worse than advertised.

saying we have a housing shortage, but denying the 20 million illegals (or whatever the number is) is having or not having an affect is counter intuitive to say the least.   

Did you read what I posted? Or are you used to just being spoon fed talking points?

[MU82]

Most economists believe that clearing out millions of working people - folks who accept jobs most Americans won't take, and folks who pay income and SS taxes while not being eligible for benefits in most states - would devastate the U.S. economy and cripple many industries.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/immigration/trump-mass-deport-migrants-crush-economy/

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/weekly-shift/2024/08/19/what-mass-deportation-would-mean-for-the-workforce-00174543

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/andres-oppenheimer/article290242824.html

Mass deportation (and/or concentration camps) is a terrible idea just for economic reasons alone. It's also cruel - which, let's face it, is the the point.

The bipartisan immigration reform legislation - which was crafted by a Republican senator but was shut down by the previous president for purely political reasons - would be a far better plan for the economy.

Of course, none of this has much to do with the subject of this thread, but dentists gonna be who dentists gonna be.

[The Sultan]

Yes. Removing millions of people from the workforce, when we already have low unemployment and inflation is settling down, is a recipe for economic disaster.

And would have negative impacts on the housing market, including increasing the price of housing significantly.

[wadesworld]

Did you read what I posted? Or are you used to just being spoon fed talking points?

Did you need to ask either of those questions? Of course he didn't read what you posted, and all he ever does is regurgitate Fox News talking points.

[jficke13]

  what's weird about this ficke?  cuz i'm a deeper thinker than you?  you all good with our "secure" border?  the economic affect/effect, not to mention all the other obvious problems, was so avoidable,

Can you imagine going on a college basketball message board, into a sub thread on mortgage rates and the housing market, and posting nonsequiters about immigration?

In what way is this not weird?

[MU82]

Can you imagine going on a college basketball message board, into a sub thread on mortgage rates and the housing market, and posting nonsequiters about immigration?

In what way is this not weird?

Simply put: They are out of their minds.

[MurphysTillClose]

  what's weird about this ficke?  cuz i'm a deeper thinker than you?  you all good with our "secure" border?  the economic affect/effect, not to mention all the other obvious problems, was so avoidable,

Hell yeah dude and don't forget the frogs are gay

[ATL MU Warrior]

Yes. Removing millions of people from the workforce, when we already have low unemployment and inflation is settling down, is a recipe for economic disaster.

And would have negative impacts on the housing market, including increasing the price of housing significantly.

The country would starve to death.

[Pakuni]

Yes. Removing millions of people from the workforce, when we already have low unemployment and inflation is settling down, is a recipe for economic disaster.

And would have negative impacts on the housing market, including increasing the price of housing significantly.

Wrong. Black people would get their black jobs back.

[Scoop Snoop]

But one of the things you're probably not seeing is SFH's being bought up and turned in rental units by investment firms.  Some from the US, but many are international corporations.  I'm sure you can see why this is not ideal.

Also, I'm not sure if your attempting to joke that you hope I get to live in a city by wishing I get divorced, but I don't think that's what you meant, since you're a level headed person.  I'll choose to not read it that way.   

The real problem is that we are also the most greedy, arrogant, and self absorbed nation.

First of all, we agree on the problems created by investment firms buying up properties as a major factor in high home prices. I did not need you to inform me of a problem that you deemed yourself qualified to say I was "probably not seeing". It is possible that the practice could be legally challenged as heading towards monopolization (though not being there) and be addressed. That would be huge. It would have been an ideal subject to keep our discussion more civil.

Secondly, I apologize for what you thought might be a bad joke regarding your marriage. Mea Culpa. I read right past the being alone comment without grasping the obvious implications.

Thirdly, I am not unilaterally opposed to zoning changes that benefit a neighborhood that is in need of rebuilding and new thinking on the overall plan. I do not like a figurative or the literal bulldozer approach to rezoning without careful considerations. My opposition is specifically to spot zoning that I believe primarily benefits the builder of units. Again, expanding on our thoughts on this subject would have been more beneficial without the name calling and accusations.

What is your solution to changing this country from a "greedy, arrogant, and self-absorbed" one to a country more to your liking? I see some of the characteristics you enumerated, but I do not think a blanket condemnation is fair.  I have no training or qualifications as a psychologist, but my layman's opinion is that you have quite a few anger issues. Your opinions, thoughts, research etc. are impressive. Why spoil it by lashing out?

Lastly, if you believe I have little or no empathy for people struggling with housing and other costs (I hope I am mistaken here and have misread what you wrote), you are very wrong. I strongly protest. I have no vested interest in many of the issues e touched upon, yet I DO care, thank you very much. My wife and I live on 12 acres of beautiful property in the Blue Ridge Mountain area in a home that is comfortable but far from huge or luxurious. One of my favorite features is our 10' deep wraparound porches that we chose in lieu of excessive heated space under roof. I'm heading out there right now. 

[Hards Alumni]

First of all, we agree on the problems created by investment firms buying up properties as a major factor in high home prices. I did not need you to inform me of a problem that you deemed yourself qualified to say I was "probably not seeing". It is possible that the practice could be legally challenged as heading towards monopolization (though not being there) and be addressed. That would be huge. It would have been an ideal subject to keep our discussion more civil.

Secondly, I apologize for what you thought might be a bad joke regarding your marriage. Mea Culpa. I read right past the being alone comment without grasping the obvious implications.

Thirdly, I am not unilaterally opposed to zoning changes that benefit a neighborhood that is in need of rebuilding and new thinking on the overall plan. I do not like a figurative or the literal bulldozer approach to rezoning without careful considerations. My opposition is specifically to spot zoning that I believe primarily benefits the builder of units. Again, expanding on our thoughts on this subject would have been more beneficial without the name calling and accusations.

What is your solution to changing this country from a "greedy, arrogant, and self-absorbed" one to a country more to your liking? I see some of the characteristics you enumerated, but I do not think a blanket condemnation is fair.  I have no training or qualifications as a psychologist, but my layman's opinion is that you have quite a few anger issues. Your opinions, thoughts, research etc. are impressive. Why spoil it by lashing out?

Lastly, if you believe I have little or no empathy for people struggling with housing and other costs (I hope I am mistaken here and have misread what you wrote), you are very wrong. I strongly protest. I have no vested interest in many of the issues e touched upon, yet I DO care, thank you very much. My wife and I live on 12 acres of beautiful property in the Blue Ridge Mountain area in a home that is comfortable but far from huge or luxurious. One of my favorite features is our 10' deep wraparound porches that we chose in lieu of excessive heated space under roof. I'm heading out there right now. 

If you are feeling attacked, please don't think I was singling you out.  It was a generalization, not directed at you personally.

The best way to stop investment firms purchasing home is to legislate it.  My guess is this will eventually happen, but it will be fairly toothless... something like an investment firm can only own so many properties in a certain area or something. 

Don't worry about what you said, I knew it wasn't in your character to say something like that.  I just wanted to be sure.

I don't know how to change this country away from being greedy, arrogant, and self absorbed.  Those things don't happen over night.  Unfortunately, our culture encourages those things which is why we have many of the social ills that we do.  Many of our Christian brothers and sisters aren't very good Christians, but I don't want to get into why that may be.  One of my most hated things I see on the internet nowadays is someone helping someone for internet likes, and kudos.  The self aggrandization always leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.  Doing something nice for someone doesn't need to be broadcast, and IMO it cheapens the good deed.  I try to practice altruism in my life, and don't do nice things for people because I want everyone else to know what a great guy I am.  Anyway.

Where have I lashed out at you, personally?  I save that for people who choose to argue without good intentions.  Which clearly isn't you.  I'm not sure why you think I'm so angry.  I'm not.  I lash out at people who have lashed out at me previously and don't want to have a serious conversation.  I absolutely will deride them at will because I don't have the desire to treat bad actors as equals.  Fools get treated like fools.  And even then, I forgive and move on from people who show decency or a desire to talk about something honestly. 

I thought we were having an honest conversation.  If you're pulling my "boomer" comments from other threads as a personal attack, just know that it isn't personal.  You're certainly not the first to point out that they feel attacked by them, and for that I apologize.  The generalization is just a generalization and isn't meant to include everyone.  Obviously, there are outliers. 

Enjoy your time in the mountains, they're beautiful and it sounds like a great time.

[tower912]

One out 4 affordable homes bought by investors last quarter.   Some markets as high as 35%.

(Simple Google search.   What percentage of homes are bought by investors)

[Scoop Snoop]

If you are feeling attacked, please don't think I was singling you out.  It was a generalization, not directed at you personally.

The best way to stop investment firms purchasing home is to legislate it.  My guess is this will eventually happen, but it will be fairly toothless... something like an investment firm can only own so many properties in a certain area or something. 

Don't worry about what you said, I knew it wasn't in your character to say something like that.  I just wanted to be sure.

I don't know how to change this country away from being greedy, arrogant, and self absorbed.  Those things don't happen over night.  Unfortunately, our culture encourages those things which is why we have many of the social ills that we do.  Many of our Christian brothers and sisters aren't very good Christians, but I don't want to get into why that may be.  One of my most hated things I see on the internet nowadays is someone helping someone for internet likes, and kudos.  The self aggrandization always leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.  Doing something nice for someone doesn't need to be broadcast, and IMO it cheapens the good deed.  I try to practice altruism in my life, and don't do nice things for people because I want everyone else to know what a great guy I am.  Anyway.

Where have I lashed out at you, personally?  I save that for people who choose to argue without good intentions.  Which clearly isn't you.  I'm not sure why you think I'm so angry.  I'm not.  I lash out at people who have lashed out at me previously and don't want to have a serious conversation.  I absolutely will deride them at will because I don't have the desire to treat bad actors as equals.  Fools get treated like fools.  And even then, I forgive and move on from people who show decency or a desire to talk about something honestly. 

I thought we were having an honest conversation.  If you're pulling my "boomer" comments from other threads as a personal attack, just know that it isn't personal.  You're certainly not the first to point out that they feel attacked by them, and for that I apologize.  The generalization is just a generalization and isn't meant to include everyone.  Obviously, there are outliers. 

Enjoy your time in the mountains, they're beautiful and it sounds like a great time.

We're good Hards. Altruism is a good thing. I say just do it, preferably anonymously or at least without drawing attention to yourself. I'm with you regarding the "Look at me! Look at me!" donors.

The way we read/hear what others write and say varies quite a bit. I'm glad to hear that there was no bad intent on your part and am happy to leave it there. Time for the rear-view mirror, OK?

You can be assured of one thing-if I ever feel that I am being attacked, I will never, ever post "Why am I being attacked?" 
My least favorite scooper seems to have given that up after being ridiculed so many times.

I think we actually covered a number of issues, but whether either of us sees the issues differently? Too early to tell.

If you come out to the Blue Ridge area, stop by for a visit. I will even let you use my chain saw to clear brush. It's a lot of fun!

[tower912]

The declining birthrate will eventually help the housing market even out.   It will probably hurt the colleges.

[The Sultan]

The declining birthrate will eventually help the housing market even out.   It will probably hurt the colleges.

Net migration is going to prevent declining birthrates from easing the housing market anytime soon.  And there are many colleges that will be closing in the next few years so that will kind of take care of itself.

[tower912]

Agreed on both points.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Can you imagine going on a college basketball message board, into a sub thread on mortgage rates and the housing market, and posting nonsequiters about immigration?

In what way is this not weird?

Indeed, roqqet is so right. The 8 million "illegals"-- or maybe 20 million, or whatever number he wants to make up at any given time-- are most definitely purchasing single family homes and driving the prices up for everyone else. Yes, indeed.

[wadesworld]

Indeed, roqqet is so right. The 8 million "illegals"-- or maybe 20 million, or whatever number he wants to make up at any given time-- are most definitely purchasing single family homes and driving the prices up for everyone else. Yes, indeed.

One just came to my door and offered me 5x what my house is worth. I now have wads of cash, but I'm living on the street because I can't afford any housing because all the illegals in this country have taken all of the available housing.

[Jay Bee]

I may be putting my house up for sale soon and I'm scurred.

[rocky_warrior]

I may be putting my house up for sale soon and I'm scurred.

Appropriate. Never take more than it's worth!

[tower912]

If I were to put my house up for sale, I had better have already made a down payment on my next house, as my current home would be snapped up in a week.  That is what scares me.

[rocky_warrior]

That is what scares me.

Mortgages shouldn't scare people.  Unless they're unprepared.

[tower912]

Sarcasm missed.