What is our all-time 12?

[lawdog77]

On the all time scoring list, if you take out players who played at low-major and players who played in vastly different eras (admittedly big IFs) Markus is behind only Doug McDermott, Tyler Hansbrough, Allan Houston, and JJ Redick.

He is absolutely one of the top 10 greatest scorers in modern major college basketball history, so to exclude him from the top 26 players to ever play at Marquette is absurd.

Would have passed Redick if there would have been an NCAA tourney his senior year (8 points behind) and could have caught Houston (40 behind),

[lawdog77]

All time leading scorer in the Big East.

Both in conference games, and overall.

[Uncle Rico]

Markus Howard assist rate as a junior was 27.2 and 5th in the Big East.  As a senior, his assist rate was 26.2 and 4th best in the Big East.

It was 18 his sophomore year.  So after Rowsey left, he increased his assist rate by nearly 10 while being the primary scorer, an all-time scorer.

If you want to blame the coach and roster makeup, you'll be right.  If you want to blame the player and call him selfish, you'd be wrong and don't know ball.

[Goose]

I was NEVER a Howard fan and admitted that my lack of fandom was because of my lack of respect for Wojo. I 100% blamed every kid he recruited the last several years and should have taken my anger out more on Wojo. That said, I could not look myself in the mirror and not admit Howard is a top twenty MU player. I think he is low on the list, but definitely on my top twenty list.

[dgies9156]

I'm going to start with a question:

How many of you who are/were Green Bay Packers fans switched to the New York Jets because Aaron Rodgers was traded? Or the Vikings because that's where Bret Favre ended his career. Suffice to say, very few of you. You are Packers fans!

That's how I view Marquette.

I'm a Marquette fan and while I really enjoy certain players, I appreciate them because of what they did for Marquette. Not because of their personal statistics. Over the years, we've had guys who probably could shoot as well as Markus. But they subjugated their individual talent so that the combination of the whole was far better than the parts. When that happens, like 2024, the team makes the tournament and has memories.

Markus was a great shooter, a good off-guard and probably a great human being (probably only because I never met him personally). He was a crappy defender who probably could barely defend me. When he was at Marquette, we made the NCAA one time and we were wiped off the floor by a mid-major team that we would have mauled just a generation prior.

Some of you blame coaching, specifically, Coach Wojo. But I look at the floor leadership of Tyler or Oso, how they pick their teammates up or scold their teammates when there is a need. The floor leadership is two ways -- Tyler and Oso assert themselves and their teammates thrive on Tyler and Oso's guidance. How many times have we seen Tyler, for instance, wave players around, move them and set them up? How many times did Tyler forsake a shot and pass instead, for the good of the team? Some of you, perhaps, saw things I didn't but I really don't ever recall Markus being a team player. The lack of floor leadership and no sense of team during the Markus era was one of the reasons why the best team Coach Wojo had broke up -- and one of the big reasons why Coach Wojo was fired.

Markus simply was not the floor leader that made Marquette better and you can't blame Coach Wojo totally for that.

Some of you have ridiculed me for my cryptic reference to LSU and Pete Maravich. Like Markus, Maravich was a greater player that I saw frequently growing up. But LSU at the time had a very crappy basketball program, no tradition of winning and was fortunate that Daddy brought sonny boy to Baton Rouge. Unlike LSU, we have an expectation at Marquette of winning, making the tournament and contending for national titles. If we didn't, Coach Wojo would still be our coach and Markus not only would be on my list but might supplant DWade as the best player ever.

I hope nobody ever challenges Markus' scoring records. Otherwise, that probably means we have a one-dimensional basketball team that, if we schedule enough cupcakes, might be a .500 team. I don't want to go back to where we were just four short years ago and I certainly don't want to honor it. If the best thing I can say about a Marquette team is we had a great scorer, then I'm probably going to puke.

By the way, Bart Starr was the greatest Packers quarterback ever! His five world championships speaks to his greatness. Bret Favre, Aaron Rodgers and even Jordan Love can only dream of accomplishing what Mr. Starr did.

[Uncle Rico]

I'm going to start with a question:

How many of you who are/were Green Bay Packers fans switched to the New York Jets because Aaron Rodgers was traded? Or the Vikings because that's where Bret Favre ended his career. Suffice to say, very few of you. You are Packers fans!

That's how I view Marquette.

I'm a Marquette fan and while I really enjoy certain players, I appreciate them because of what they did for Marquette. Not because of their personal statistics. Over the years, we've had guys who probably could shoot as well as Markus. But they subjugated their individual talent so that the combination of the whole was far better than the parts. When that happens, like 2024, the team makes the tournament and has memories.

Markus was a great shooter, a good off-guard and probably a great human being (probably only because I never met him personally). He was a crappy defender who probably could barely defend me. When he was at Marquette, we made the NCAA one time and we were wiped off the floor by a mid-major team that we would have mauled just a generation prior.

Some of you blame coaching, specifically, Coach Wojo. But I look at the floor leadership of Tyler or Oso, how they pick their teammates up or scold their teammates when there is a need. The floor leadership is two ways -- Tyler and Oso assert themselves and their teammates thrive on Tyler and Oso's guidance. How many times have we seen Tyler, for instance, wave players around, move them and set them up? How many times did Tyler forsake a shot and pass instead, for the good of the team? Some of you, perhaps, saw things I didn't but I really don't ever recall Markus being a team player. The lack of floor leadership and no sense of team during the Markus era was one of the reasons why the best team Coach Wojo had broke up -- and one of the big reasons why Coach Wojo was fired.

Markus simply was not the floor leader that made Marquette better and you can't blame Coach Wojo totally for that.

Some of you have ridiculed me for my cryptic reference to LSU and Pete Maravich. Like Markus, Maravich was a greater player that I saw frequently growing up. But LSU at the time had a very crappy basketball program, no tradition of winning and was fortunate that Daddy brought sonny boy to Baton Rouge. Unlike LSU, we have an expectation at Marquette of winning, making the tournament and contending for national titles. If we didn't, Coach Wojo would still be our coach and Markus not only would be on my list but might supplant DWade as the best player ever.

I hope nobody ever challenges Markus' scoring records. Otherwise, that probably means we have a one-dimensional basketball team that, if we schedule enough cupcakes, might be a .500 team. I don't want to go back to where we were just four short years ago and I certainly don't want to honor it. If the best thing I can say about a Marquette team is we had a great scorer, then I'm probably going to puke.

By the way, Bart Starr was the greatest Packers quarterback ever! His five world championships speaks to his greatness. Bret Favre, Aaron Rodgers and even Jordan Love can only dream of accomplishing what Mr. Starr did.

My eyes rolled out of my head

[Shooter McGavin]

To list 26 players and not include Markus Howard is a travesty.

Ha!  Thought the same thing.   Plus he threw in the guy that blew up a potential deep tournament run team by quitting right at the end of his list.   Quitters greater than scorers.  Well done!   Great troll. 

[dgies9156]

My eyes rolled out of my head

I can give you the name of some good doctors!

[lurch91]

Bo Ellis
Jim chones
Maurice Lucas
George Thompson
Butch lee
Dean Menninger
Markus Howard
Earl Tatum
Jae crowder
Don kojis
Dwayne Wade
Doc rivers

Jereal McNeal for Doc Rivers.

[DoctorV]

This thread has taught me that it's ok to feel things

[MU82]

Afraid not. I knew that was coming.

Not a troll. I think Markus was all about statistics and not about team. I'm a Marquette fan. not a Markus fan.

We're not LSU!

Sure. Oliver Lee's contribution to Marquette basketball history can't be ignored.

[PointWarrior]

I'm going to start with a question:

How many of you who are/were Green Bay Packers fans switched to the New York Jets because Aaron Rodgers was traded? Or the Vikings because that's where Bret Favre ended his career. Suffice to say, very few of you. You are Packers fans!

That's how I view Marquette.

I'm a Marquette fan and while I really enjoy certain players, I appreciate them because of what they did for Marquette. Not because of their personal statistics. Over the years, we've had guys who probably could shoot as well as Markus. But they subjugated their individual talent so that the combination of the whole was far better than the parts. When that happens, like 2024, the team makes the tournament and has memories.

Markus was a great shooter, a good off-guard and probably a great human being (probably only because I never met him personally). He was a crappy defender who probably could barely defend me. When he was at Marquette, we made the NCAA one time and we were wiped off the floor by a mid-major team that we would have mauled just a generation prior.

Some of you blame coaching, specifically, Coach Wojo. But I look at the floor leadership of Tyler or Oso, how they pick their teammates up or scold their teammates when there is a need. The floor leadership is two ways -- Tyler and Oso assert themselves and their teammates thrive on Tyler and Oso's guidance. How many times have we seen Tyler, for instance, wave players around, move them and set them up? How many times did Tyler forsake a shot and pass instead, for the good of the team? Some of you, perhaps, saw things I didn't but I really don't ever recall Markus being a team player. The lack of floor leadership and no sense of team during the Markus era was one of the reasons why the best team Coach Wojo had broke up -- and one of the big reasons why Coach Wojo was fired.

Markus simply was not the floor leader that made Marquette better and you can't blame Coach Wojo totally for that.

Some of you have ridiculed me for my cryptic reference to LSU and Pete Maravich. Like Markus, Maravich was a greater player that I saw frequently growing up. But LSU at the time had a very crappy basketball program, no tradition of winning and was fortunate that Daddy brought sonny boy to Baton Rouge. Unlike LSU, we have an expectation at Marquette of winning, making the tournament and contending for national titles. If we didn't, Coach Wojo would still be our coach and Markus not only would be on my list but might supplant DWade as the best player ever.

I hope nobody ever challenges Markus' scoring records. Otherwise, that probably means we have a one-dimensional basketball team that, if we schedule enough cupcakes, might be a .500 team. I don't want to go back to where we were just four short years ago and I certainly don't want to honor it. If the best thing I can say about a Marquette team is we had a great scorer, then I'm probably going to puke.

By the way, Bart Starr was the greatest Packers quarterback ever! His five world championships speaks to his greatness. Bret Favre, Aaron Rodgers and even Jordan Love can only dream of accomplishing what Mr. Starr did.

Certainly a candidate for the top 26 dumbest posts...   It's okay, I can feel this way.

[muwarrior69]

Why 12 and not 13? Even our all-time 12 is a scholarship short.

[tower912]

Dgies, I feel like we did not watch the same games. 
   There are players that I never warmed to.
Merritt.  Gardner.  Joey.  Jajuan Johnson.  Mayo.  Morsell.  I would never diminish what they accomplished at MU, if they had.   So, I get it.  I just completely disagree with it.   
   Markus is an all-time great scorer in Big East and NCAA history.   There is no way I could ever let a personal bias keep me from appreciating those accomplishments.  But, this IS scoop.  And you are not alone. 

[Judge Smails]

Markus would've helped against NC State. No way we go 4 for 31 from 3 with Markus in the lineup.

[brewcity77]

Afraid not. I knew that was coming.

Not a troll. I think Markus was all about statistics and not about team. I'm a Marquette fan. not a Markus fan.

We're not LSU!

Not trolling, but I knew this was coming and will continue winding people up. 

You're literally describing your behavior as trolling as you try to deny you are trolling.

[THRILLHO]

Over the years, we've had guys who probably could shoot as well as Markus.

Narrator: we have not

[Goose]

Steve Novak is the great shooter in MU history and Howard is the greatest scorer. IMO, we can watch MU for a long time and never see a better shooter than Novak.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'm going to start with a question:

How many of you who are/were Green Bay Packers fans switched to the New York Jets because Aaron Rodgers was traded? Or the Vikings because that's where Bret Favre ended his career. Suffice to say, very few of you. You are Packers fans!

That's how I view Marquette.

I'm a Marquette fan and while I really enjoy certain players, I appreciate them because of what they did for Marquette. Not because of their personal statistics. Over the years, we've had guys who probably could shoot as well as Markus. But they subjugated their individual talent so that the combination of the whole was far better than the parts. When that happens, like 2024, the team makes the tournament and has memories.

Markus was a great shooter, a good off-guard and probably a great human being (probably only because I never met him personally). He was a crappy defender who probably could barely defend me. When he was at Marquette, we made the NCAA one time and we were wiped off the floor by a mid-major team that we would have mauled just a generation prior.

Some of you blame coaching, specifically, Coach Wojo. But I look at the floor leadership of Tyler or Oso, how they pick their teammates up or scold their teammates when there is a need. The floor leadership is two ways -- Tyler and Oso assert themselves and their teammates thrive on Tyler and Oso's guidance. How many times have we seen Tyler, for instance, wave players around, move them and set them up? How many times did Tyler forsake a shot and pass instead, for the good of the team? Some of you, perhaps, saw things I didn't but I really don't ever recall Markus being a team player. The lack of floor leadership and no sense of team during the Markus era was one of the reasons why the best team Coach Wojo had broke up -- and one of the big reasons why Coach Wojo was fired.

Markus simply was not the floor leader that made Marquette better and you can't blame Coach Wojo totally for that.

Some of you have ridiculed me for my cryptic reference to LSU and Pete Maravich. Like Markus, Maravich was a greater player that I saw frequently growing up. But LSU at the time had a very crappy basketball program, no tradition of winning and was fortunate that Daddy brought sonny boy to Baton Rouge. Unlike LSU, we have an expectation at Marquette of winning, making the tournament and contending for national titles. If we didn't, Coach Wojo would still be our coach and Markus not only would be on my list but might supplant DWade as the best player ever.

I hope nobody ever challenges Markus' scoring records. Otherwise, that probably means we have a one-dimensional basketball team that, if we schedule enough cupcakes, might be a .500 team. I don't want to go back to where we were just four short years ago and I certainly don't want to honor it. If the best thing I can say about a Marquette team is we had a great scorer, then I'm probably going to puke.

By the way, Bart Starr was the greatest Packers quarterback ever! His five world championships speaks to his greatness. Bret Favre, Aaron Rodgers and even Jordan Love can only dream of accomplishing what Mr. Starr did.

This is really dumb.

[Lennys Tap]

Markus Howard assist rate as a junior was 27.2 and 5th in the Big East.  As a senior, his assist rate was 26.2 and 4th best in the Big East.

It was 18 his sophomore year.  So after Rowsey left, he increased his assist rate by nearly 10 while being the primary scorer, an all-time scorer.

If you want to blame the coach and roster makeup, you'll be right.  If you want to blame the player and call him selfish, you'd be wrong and don't know ball.

Wasn't his usage by far #1 in the Big East too? When the ball is always in your hands until you shoot it or pass it to somebody who then has to you'll get numbers.

[Uncle Rico]

Wasn't his usage by far #1 in the Big East too? When the ball is always in your hands until you shoot it or pass it to somebody who then has to you'll get numbers.

He was the primary ball handler and best offensive threat on those teams.  He'd have been an even better player if he had played with a legit PG his last two years.  Even without, he was a two-time All American.

[brewcity77]

Wasn't his usage by far #1 in the Big East too? When the ball is always in your hands until you shoot it or pass it to somebody who then has to you'll get numbers.

It was, and he still posted 110 & 113 Offensive ratings. No one in the country could do what Markus did at the insane efficiency level he did it at.

Yes, high usage players will score. See Myles Powell. But it is rare to have a usage as high as Howard's while maintaining his efficiency level.

[THRILLHO]

Steve Novak is the great shooter in MU history and Howard is the greatest scorer. IMO, we can watch MU for a long time and never see a better shooter than Novak.

I will grant you that Novak is in the same league as Howard standing still. Howard could shoot off of all kinds of motion.

[tower912]

Yes.  Markus was a generational talent.

[Goose]

Thrillho

Thanks for granting me that Novak was "in the same league" as a Howard. That said, I think you missed that I said Novak is the best shooter ever to wear an MU uniform. There is no comparison or discussion on the topic.

There are few things that are 99% accurate in discussion of players or skills. Jim Mac is the greatest shot blocker ever, Wade is the greatest player, Novak is the greatest shooter and Howard is the greatest scorer in school history.