IDF targets and kills food aid workers

[jesmu84]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/chef-jose-andres-says-israel-targeted-his-aid-workers-systematically-car-by-car-2024-04-03/

Jeez

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

They triple tapped them too. Pretty blatantly intentional. They won’t change their behavior if they face “stern talking to” from our Gov

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

https://x.com/nathanjrobinson/status/1775665579375915176?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg

israel has killed more aid workers in the gaza strip than have died in all of the countries in the rest of the world combined in any of the last 30 years

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

As I predicted, Israel completely overreacted without a coherent plan, and is now stuck in Gaza, losing support daily both internally and externally.

So Iran got what they wanted. Good job Bibi!

[jficke13]

Someone suggested viewing Israel's actions through the lens exclusively of the cadre in power trying to do what it thought most likely to maintain its hold on power. For much of the "war" in Gaza, it seemed to be working. There are increasing calls for elections though, so there's a real possibility that this might be a turning point.

[Skatastrophy]

Someone suggested viewing Israel's actions through the lens exclusively of the cadre in power trying to do what it thought most likely to maintain its hold on power. For much of the "war" in Gaza, it seemed to be working. There are increasing calls for elections though, so there's a real possibility that this might be a turning point.

Yep exactly. They were hands off on Gaza and were getting hammered by the right wingers in their country because of their weak stance. This is a predictable overreaction to their perceived weakness, and I'm not sure it's going to save their jobs.

Selfish play by the current Israel leadership, trading lives for a few more years on the job.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Yep exactly. They were hands off on Gaza and were getting hammered by the right wingers in their country because of their weak stance. This is a predictable overreaction to their perceived weakness, and I'm not sure it's going to save their jobs.

Selfish play by the current Israel leadership, trading lives for a few more years on the job.

"Hands off"

[Skatastrophy]

"Hands off"

They live next to Hamas, a terrorist organization, and the PLO, a terrorist organization and there are like 150-200 deaths per year since 2015. Yes, they have been relatively, historically, hands off with terrorist organizations at their doorsteps. Netanyahu has been weak on Gaza according to the right wing in Israel which should be his base.

[Pakuni]

Bibi's response.
"Give me more weapons and give them to me now."

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/netanyahu-demands-u-s-send-weapons-to-israel-more-quickly-give-us-the-tools-faster/

I believe the word is chutzpah.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

They live next to Hamas, a terrorist organization, and the PLO, a terrorist organization and there are like 150-200 deaths per year since 2015. Yes, they have been relatively, historically, hands off with terrorist organizations at their doorsteps. Netanyahu has been weak on Gaza according to the right wing in Israel which should be his base.

Bibi straight up encouraged Hamas and allowed them to be funded. Weak is probably not what I would use. Cynically propped up for years to deflect and distract from personal domestic failings, yes. Either way it’s “if it moves, shoot it” now.

[jesmu84]

As more and more aid groups decide to abandon providing aid due to threat of killing by the IDF, it is clear the US government is complicit in genocide/ethnic cleansing.

Disgusting.

[JWags85]

As more and more aid groups decide to abandon providing aid due to threat of killing by the IDF, it is clear the US government is complicit in genocide/ethnic cleansing.

Disgusting.

Truly unfortunate for many of the well meaning and clean organizations that Hamas has its claws in so many other aid groups/the aid pipeline. 

Does the IDF have an overly itchy trigger finger when it comes to suspected targets?  Yes, absolutely.  Did they attack this convoy solely cause "screw Gazans, we're killing anyone who helps them?"  Dont be naive.

The sad fact of this whole situation is neither side is going to stop.  Hamas isn't going to release the remaining hostages, they aren't going to withdraw from Gaza.  Israel isn't going to stop pushing forward until they have eradicated Hamas.  Unfortunately for Israel, most people who have any remaining interest in the war have chosen to forget that Hamas is still involved and that its an ongoing conflict.  War is horrific.  Even more so when its taking place in and around a civilian population.

This is no more disgusting than any number of events that are going on around the world, it just has more media coverage.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Eh. Our support of Israel as an ally makes this a little different, and Israel is making that increasingly difficult.

[JWags85]

Eh. Our support of Israel as an ally makes this a little different, and Israel is making that increasingly difficult.

Without question.  And Israel's relentless aggression and pig headedness from Bibi is making very understandable why they are losing favor and support internationally.

I just object when people make it some cut and dried thing like the US is funding a rebel group in some 3rd world country whose express purpose is to zero out a particular religious group or rival tribe and they can simply choose to no longer support/ally with that country any more.

I'm actually fine with the US not sending any more weapons.  I think if this is the direction Israel wants to continue on, they should figure it out themselves.  That being said, I'm not gonna agree with people who want to continue framing this as a directionless campaign of meaningless killing as opposed to the actuality of it being a military campaign, albeit a heavy handed one.  Context matters.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Don't disagree at all.

[Pakuni]

Without question.  And Israel's relentless aggression and pig headedness from Bibi is making very understandable why they are losing favor and support internationally.

I just object when people make it some cut and dried thing like the US is funding a rebel group in some 3rd world country whose express purpose is to zero out a particular religious group or rival tribe and they can simply choose to no longer support/ally with that country any more.

I'm actually fine with the US not sending any more weapons.  I think if this is the direction Israel wants to continue on, they should figure it out themselves.  That being said, I'm not gonna agree with people who want to continue framing this as a directionless campaign of meaningless killing as opposed to the actuality of it being a military campaign, albeit a heavy handed one.  Context matters.

What's the direction of this military campaign of meaningful killing?

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Without question.  And Israel's relentless aggression and pig headedness from Bibi is making very understandable why they are losing favor and support internationally.

I just object when people make it some cut and dried thing like the US is funding a rebel group in some 3rd world country whose express purpose is to zero out a particular religious group or rival tribe and they can simply choose to no longer support/ally with that country any more.

I'm actually fine with the US not sending any more weapons.  I think if this is the direction Israel wants to continue on, they should figure it out themselves.  That being said, I'm not gonna agree with people who want to continue framing this as a directionless campaign of meaningless killing as opposed to the actuality of it being a military campaign, albeit a heavy handed one.  Context matters.

Context does matter, I agree. And within that context I would argue the below is pretty cut and dry. Even if we stop sending weapons, we still send quite a bit of money over and the majority of Americans do not want their tax dollars funding civilian slaughter. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes

"“You don’t want to waste expensive bombs on unimportant people – it’s very expensive for the country and there’s a shortage [of those bombs],” one intelligence officer said. Another said the principal question they were faced with was whether the “collateral damage” to civilians allowed for an attack.

“Because we usually carried out the attacks with dumb bombs, and that meant literally dropping the whole house on its occupants. But even if an attack is averted, you don’t care – you immediately move on to the next target. Because of the system, the targets never end. You have another 36,000 waiting.”

According to conflict experts, if Israel has been using dumb bombs to flatten the homes of thousands of Palestinians who were linked, with the assistance of AI, to militant groups in Gaza, that could help explain the shockingly high death toll in the war."

"Another intelligence officer said that more recently in the conflict, the rate of permitted collateral damage was brought down again. But at one stage earlier in the war they were authorised to kill up to “20 uninvolved civilians” for a single operative, regardless of their rank, military importance, or age."

[WhiteTrash]

As is the history in that region, everything is very complicated and messy. I don't care if your a Democrat or Republican or other, if you are honest you have to recognize this is a very difficult situation for Biden to navigate. Allies and other beneficial relationships in that part of the world can not be cast aside without serious consideration of long term effects beyond the current leadership over there and domestically.

The vacuum the US creates when it withdraws, both politically and diplomatically, will be filled by some other party(ies) like Russia, China, Iran, etc. (obviously not speaking about Israel specifically)

That said, the demands for a more humanitarian resolution are very valid. The actions of a sovereign first world country should not mirror a terrorist group. I acknowledge, this is easier said than done from someone like me who doesn't have loved ones held hostage or butchered.

[JWags85]

What's the direction of this military campaign of meaningful killing?

To rid Gaza of Hamas completely.  Whether that is a realistic or achievable goal is certainly up for debate, but its been the stated goal from the start. 

You can be critical or bothered by the methods and/or the ambivalence to collateral damage, but that doesn't change the aim of the campaign.  Its intellectually dishonest to ignore that just paint this all as genocidal push to eradicate Palestinians, as many have been doing for months now.

Ive been very disappointed with the optics of Israel's actions (obviously also incredibly saddened by the ever increasing death count regardless of whose numbers are to be believed) because it gives amplification to any number of dumb voices critical of Israel's existence and place in the world and accomplishes exactly what Iran wanted. 

At this point they could completely wipe out any and all leadership of Hamas and people would still find a way of invalidating Israel's whole campaign as tyrannical and oppressive and to make Hamas and its cause the sympathetic victims.  Ive already seen an uptick in the general "Hamas were freedom fighters" narrative over the last few months.  That as much as anything is why Bibi and his cabal need to be gone ASAP.

[Pakuni]

To rid Gaza of Hamas completely.  Whether that is a realistic or achievable goal is certainly up for debate, but its been the stated goal from the start. 

You can be critical or bothered by the methods and/or the ambivalence to collateral damage, but that doesn't change the aim of the campaign.  Its intellectually dishonest to ignore that just paint this all as genocidal push to eradicate Palestinians, as many have been doing for months now.

Ive been very disappointed with the optics of Israel's actions (obviously also incredibly saddened by the ever increasing death count regardless of whose numbers are to be believed) because it gives amplification to any number of dumb voices critical of Israel's existence and place in the world and accomplishes exactly what Iran wanted. 

At this point they could completely wipe out any and all leadership of Hamas and people would still find a way of invalidating Israel's whole campaign as tyrannical and oppressive and to make Hamas and its cause the sympathetic victims.  Ive already seen an uptick in the general "Hamas were freedom fighters" narrative over the last few months.  That as much as anything is why Bibi and his cabal need to be gone ASAP.

All well and good, but I didn't ask you the - ahem- stated goal of the campaign.  I asked you the direction.
Point being - and I say this admittedly no expert in military tactics - there seems to be little direction or coherent strategy in how Israel has conducted this campaign, nor does there seem to be any clear long-term plan for what happens when it's done.We'll, maybe beyond turning over some prime Mediterranean-front real estate over to Jared for development.

There are some people who would have been opposed to anything Israel did. But the support they're losing now isn't because people are anti-Isreal. It's because the longer this goes on, the more and more it appears Israel's only strategy is collective punishment.

[4everwarriors]

Just as a reminder, on October 6, a cease fire existed in the Middle East. On October 7, Hamas broke that cease fire by attacking, killing, and kidnapping innocent Israelis while the world sat back and nodded approval with its silence. And now as da BOTUS sees his polling numbers plummet faster than cockroaches scatter in a kitchen when the lights are turned on, he willingly throws the only democracy in the Middle East under the bus simply to garner Arab American votes in key swing states...despicable, aina?

#fromthejordanrivertothemediterreanseaandpalestinewillbefree

#neveragain

[Uncle Rico]

Just as a reminder, on October 6, a cease fire existed in the Middle East. On October 7, Hamas broke that cease fire by attacking, killing, and kidnapping innocent Israelis while the world sat back and nodded approval with its silence. And now as da BOTUS sees his polling numbers plummet faster than cockroaches scatter in a kitchen when the lights are turned on, he willingly throws the only democracy in the Middle East under the bus simply to garner Arab American votes in key swing states...despicable, aina?

#fromthejordanrivertothemediterreanseaandpalestinewillbefree

#neveragain

Oh, we care about protecting democracies now?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Just as a reminder, on October 6, a cease fire existed in the Middle East. On October 7, Hamas broke that cease fire by attacking, killing, and kidnapping innocent Israelis while the world sat back and nodded approval with its silence. And now as da BOTUS sees his polling numbers plummet faster than cockroaches scatter in a kitchen when the lights are turned on, he willingly throws the only democracy in the Middle East under the bus simply to garner Arab American votes in key swing states...despicable, aina?

#fromthejordanrivertothemediterreanseaandpalestinewillbefree

#neveragain

Time for you to heat up some milk and head to bed.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

To rid Gaza of Hamas completely.  Whether that is a realistic or achievable goal is certainly up for debate, but its been the stated goal from the start. 

You can be critical or bothered by the methods and/or the ambivalence to collateral damage, but that doesn't change the aim of the campaign.  Its intellectually dishonest to ignore that just paint this all as genocidal push to eradicate Palestinians, as many have been doing for months now.

Ive been very disappointed with the optics of Israel's actions (obviously also incredibly saddened by the ever increasing death count regardless of whose numbers are to be believed) because it gives amplification to any number of dumb voices critical of Israel's existence and place in the world and accomplishes exactly what Iran wanted. 

At this point they could completely wipe out any and all leadership of Hamas and people would still find a way of invalidating Israel's whole campaign as tyrannical and oppressive and to make Hamas and its cause the sympathetic victims.  Ive already seen an uptick in the general "Hamas were freedom fighters" narrative over the last few months.  That as much as anything is why Bibi and his cabal need to be gone ASAP.

The casualty numbers believed are pretty much agreed upon now by the Gaza health ministry and agreed upon publicly by Israeli intelligence. That’s not really a talking point to make anymore, as it’s pivoted from “untrue” to “sacrifices that are acceptable”

Getting mad about people saying “what Iran wants” and being most concerned with “the optics”/“people won’t give Israel credit even if they achieve the impossible” isn’t really the point of the thread here. The topic is Israel continuing to target foreign aid workers in a deliberate manner which is way more effective at ruining Israel’s PR image than anything Iran is doing right now.

The majority of your post is complaining about the fringe internet. Which you have admitted to falling into the rabbit hole of before. Twitter is not real life. But the people’s lives that these “bad optics” represent are real life. Well until they aren’t because AI told the drone operator they were part of an acceptable casualty threshold.

Two thirds plus of Americans agree with a permanent ceasefire. 

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Just as a reminder, on October 6, a cease fire existed in the Middle East. On October 7, Hamas broke that cease fire by attacking, killing, and kidnapping innocent Israelis while the world sat back and nodded approval with its silence. And now as da BOTUS sees his polling numbers plummet faster than cockroaches scatter in a kitchen when the lights are turned on, he willingly throws the only democracy in the Middle East under the bus simply to garner Arab American votes in key swing states...despicable, aina?

#fromthejordanrivertothemediterreanseaandpalestinewillbefree

#neveragain

Dis guy called the cops on a Sikh at the grocery store after 9/11 ^^^