Upon Further Reflection...

[#UnleashSean]

I'd take rough regular season that ends with a conference championship and Final Four over this past Marquette season 100 times out of 100.

Yep. Love it or hate it, deep runs always are remembered more.

[MU82]

We're all dealing with hypotheticals here.

wisblue, you think you'd prefer a great regular season and early-round NCAAT exit ... but if we had a season exactly like NC State's - including victories in these last 5 win-or-go-home games - you might be thrilled beyond even your expectations. You might be saying, "Damn, we faced a ton of adversity, and I thought Shaka was cooked, but gotta hand it to the guys for rallying like this. Our first Final Four in 21 years. This is the best!"

Or not.

Nobody really knows how they'd react to a situation until there's an actual situation to react to.

Sitting here today, I think I'd definitely have traded our 2023-24 season for NC State's as long as it ended up in the Final Four (or more). If you think you wouldn't have, that's cool too.

[wisblue]

Is there some mathematical equation to determine how many regular season losses versus post season wins=happiness?

To each his own.

No, it is purely a matter of taste, and I recognize that my taste is in the minority.

I hope it doesn't happen soon, but it would be interesting to see how some of these people who would prefer NC State's season would react if MU actually had 4 months like that, and then lost in the semifinal round.

My guess is that many of them would be calling for the coach's head for four months, and would go right back to it when the team loses and they realize that next year is going to be a complete rebuild because the team was built on 5th year transfers.

[barfolomew]

Just curious how many Scoopers would have traded 2018-2019 MU's season for the results of 2023-2024 NC State?
Wonder how WolfpackScoop judges this year's amazing run from the vantage point of 2030, after being mired in 6 more years of mediocrity under Keatts?

I enjoyed the season we had, thanks.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

A natty is always the ultimate prize, but look at the littered killing field of the NCAA tourney and tell me those many teams are now of nominal value.  I would not trade NC State their mediocre regular season for ours. Part of the bargain would have required watching them play their regular season.   

I think this was an excellent point. Our family had a a great deal of fun and excitement all season long watching MU this year. (All sorts of new MU and player specific sweatshirts and tee shirts in our closets!) One bad night doesn't take that away.

[Badgerhater]

MU basketball is fun again and I expect it to continue.  When MU hoops is fun I attend games and travel to tournaments.

I see the program firmly set in consistent relevancy under the current coach and I expect that to continue.

[1SE]

I think this was an excellent point. Our family had a a great deal of fun and excitement all season long watching MU this year. (All sorts of new MU and player specific sweatshirts and tee shirts in our closets!) One bad night doesn't take that away.

It's all about individual preferences,  but I would 100% take NCSTs season over ours. Especially since they've won 9 straight elimination games - an incredible, exciting and legendary run that came out of the adversity of the regular season.

[Goose]

Short Tail

My family has been attached at the hip regarding MU basketball since the day Shaka arrived. On a selfish note, I have loved the family excitement about the program and it has provided a lot of fun for us. My boys and I have talked more MU basketball over the past three years than the previous 20 years combined.

[wisblue]

We're all dealing with hypotheticals here.

wisblue, you think you'd prefer a great regular season and early-round NCAAT exit ... but if we had a season exactly like NC State's - including victories in these last 5 win-or-go-home games - you might be thrilled beyond even your expectations. You might be saying, "Damn, we faced a ton of adversity, and I thought Shaka was cooked, but gotta hand it to the guys for rallying like this. Our first Final Four in 21 years. This is the best!"

Or not.

Nobody really knows how they'd react to a situation until there's an actual situation to react to.

Sitting here today, I think I'd definitely have traded our 2023-24 season for NC State's as long as it ended up in the Final Four (or more). If you think you wouldn't have, that's cool too.

I'm sure I would  enjoy the miraculous run while it was happening, but if it ended with a loss in the semifinals there would be some disappointment then, it just occurred a week later than losing in the Sweet 16 round.

The reason I prefer a season like MU had this year is that I enjoy so much the evolution of a college basketball season: the nonconference season and early season tournaments, then the conference season leading up to the conference tournaments and NCAA selection and tournament. That is so much more enjoyable when the team(s)  you follow most closely are in the hunt to the point that you look at every games as affecting conference standings and NCAA seeding.

When the team is not even on the NCAA bubble, that takes away almost all of the enjoyment for me. I know how I feel in those circumstances, and there have been plenty of them, but fortunately not too many in the last 20 years.

[Its DJOver]

A season like ours makes me optimistic that the program is in good hands and that a breakthrough will eventually come in the tournament.  The season that NCST is having is probably more fun, but I also think there's a very good likelihood that it's a one-off and that next season Kevin Keatts will go back to running a mediocre program. Think there could be parallels to Frank Martin, use a FF to get a 5 year extension and do nothing with it.

[The Sultan]

So, in other words, you  would have been happier being a fan of NC State this season, even with all of the losses and lack of big wins for four months, no guarantee of even making the NCAA tournament , talk of firing the coach, etc. 

If by "etc." you mean winning five straight in the ACC tournament, then getting all the way to the Final Four, I say ABSOLUTELY. Not a question.

[wisblue]

A season like ours makes me optimistic that the program is in good hands and that a breakthrough will eventually come in the tournament.  The season that NCST is having is probably more fun, but I also think there's a very good likelihood that it's a one-off and that next season Kevin Keatts will go back to running a mediocre program. Think there could be parallels to Frank Martin, use a FF to get a 5 year extension and do nothing with it.

The NC State "season" is definitely not more fun. The issue is whether the postseason run overcomes what by any measure was a miserable season before that.

With Keatts the question is whether he can go back to the portal and piece together a competitive team for next year. It took him two years worth  of transfers to get to this point, and even that wasn't good enough to land an at large bid for the NCAA tournament this season.

[wisblue]

If by "etc." you mean winning five straight in the ACC tournament, then getting all the way to the Final Four, I say ABSOLUTELY. Not a question.

You've made that clear.

[Its DJOver]

The NC State "season" is definitely not more fun. The issue is whether the postseason run overcomes what by any measure was a miserable season before that.

With Keatts the question is whether he can go back to the portal and piece together a competitive team for next year. It took him two years worth  of transfers to get to this point, and even that wasn't good enough to land an at large bid for the NCAA tournament this season.

Our season as a whole consists of 27 wins, their season as a whole consists of 26 wins. When the margins are that close, I would say the timeliness of the wins more than makes up for it.

[1SE]

Our season as a whole consists of 27 wins, their season as a whole consists of 26 wins. When the margins are that close, I would say the timeliness of the wins more than makes up for it.

Yep, it was fun winning in November, but not even a choice for me between winning in Nov vs March

[Scoop Snoop]

Since fantasizing about trading our regular season with NC State's for their tourney run seems to be well accepted here, why not fantasize that we won our game vs. them and also took down Duke, putting us in the FF?

Look at the history of the tourney and then tell me that NC State is not an outlier. It is far more common that teams that had very good seasons make it to the FF and that the one that wins it all is not a team with a miraculous run.

I will take a pass on all the fantasizing and enjoy watching Marquette's entire season-regular + BET+ NCAA starting in November. Dealing in reality has long been my M.O.

[The Sultan]

Since fantasizing about trading our regular season with NC State's for their tourney run seems to be well accepted here, why not fantasize that we won our game vs. them and also took down Duke, putting us in the FF?

Because that's not the hypothetical that was brought up.

[Scoop Snoop]

Because that's not the hypothetical that was brought up.

I just brought it up and added it to the fantasizing. Seems like a fair question to me.   

[wisblue]

https://youtu.be/BiiJ6m6GFZw?si=vX85IoBQwoBWS9er

If you've never seen it, you should watch the end of the regulation of this game and see how missed FT's (4 out of 5), fouling a 3 point shooter with a 6 point lead in the last minute, and what I consider coaching malpractice by Tony Bennett allowed NCState to keep its run to the NCAA tournament alive.

I don't always skewer a coach who doesn't foul with a 3 point lead when an opponent sinks a 3 point shot in the last 7 or 8 seconds. But, in this case, VA was at the free throw line with 5 seconds left and a 3 point lead. They only had 3 team fouls so had 3 to give before even putting NCS in the bonus.

For some reason I don't understand, he chose not to put anyone on the free throw lane to contest a rebound or a charge up court. What was he concerned about? Even if one of his players fouled going for the rebound or getting in the way of someone moving downcourt, that would have just given NCS the ball out of bounds in the backcourt. He could have fouled the player receiving an inbound pass multiple times before even getting into the bonus, taking a little time off the clock each time.

I hope Keatts sends Bennett a nice Christmas present for possibly saving his job.

[MU82]

Since fantasizing about trading our regular season with NC State's for their tourney run seems to be well accepted here, why not fantasize that we won our game vs. them and also took down Duke, putting us in the FF?

Look at the history of the tourney and then tell me that NC State is not an outlier. It is far more common that teams that had very good seasons make it to the FF and that the one that wins it all is not a team with a miraculous run.

I will take a pass on all the fantasizing and enjoy watching Marquette's entire season-regular + BET+ NCAA starting in November. Dealing in reality has long been my M.O.

1. I didn't bring up the hypotheticals. (Nor did you.) I'm just playing along. I totally enjoyed our regular season, and totally enjoyed being in Indy for the first two rounds. I am disappointed by the loss to NC State, as is everyone else.

2. One could argue that Marquette was an outlier in 1977. On the "bubble," as it were back then; got hot down the stretch; squeaked into the tourney; stayed hot in March. I think most long-time Marquette fans are at least as satisfied with that season as they were with this past season, when there was never a doubt we'd be dancing and probably as a top-3 seed.

3. There actually are some Scoopers who said Marquette fans were "dreaming" for believing that their talented, experienced #2-seeded team with an All-American PG and two all-conference-level players could at least get to the Final Four.

IMHO, it would have been illogical to not believe - as well as pretty joyless.

[Scoop Snoop]

1. I didn't bring up the hypotheticals. (Nor did you.) I'm just playing along. I totally enjoyed our regular season, and totally enjoyed being in Indy for the first two rounds. I am disappointed by the loss to NC State, as is everyone else.

2. One could argue that Marquette was an outlier in 1977. On the "bubble," as it were back then; got hot down the stretch; squeaked into the tourney; stayed hot in March. I think most long-time Marquette fans are at least as satisfied with that season as they were with this past season, when there was never a doubt we'd be dancing and probably as a top-3 seed.

3. There actually are some Scoopers who said Marquette fans were "dreaming" for believing that their talented, experienced #2-seeded team with an All-American PG and two all-conference-level players could at least get to the Final Four.

IMHO, it would have been illogical to not believe - as well as pretty joyless.

Nice post. And Marquette being the outlier in 1977 made the natty even more exciting. Great memories! I almost lost my voice screaming as I watched that game.

I wrote earlier that EE was my expectation and possibly a FF. My reasoning was based upon our problems with big, beefy opponents, and not on our team, so... not joyless. Sooner or later, I thought we would face opponents with too many big guys, bigger than our own. As per my usual disclaimer, I have always  loved being proved wrong any time I had doubts about our team.

Credit to Burns, definitely a big guy. Whether he weighs 275, 300, or 325 (I'll let scoop's Burns' weight guesser come up with his final number) , he caused us plenty of trouble.

[MU82]

Credit to Burns, definitely a big guy. Whether he weighs 275, 300, or 325 (I'll let scoop's Burns' weight guesser come up with his final number) , he caused us plenty of trouble.

We played Burns by far better than anybody else has in weeks. Only 4 points and 4 rebounds in 27 minutes.

I did think Shaka waited too long in adjusting to Burns' passing ability, though. We didn't need to double him as often or as hard as we did. When we did less of that in the second half, he still wasn't able to do much against us himself, and it created fewer passing options for him.

A lot of talent, though. I'm especially impressed with his quick first step and his passing.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

Here's my comparable.

[muwarrior69]

82

Of course, the last two years were success, and both ended in disappointment. It has been the best two year stretch in a long time and entertaining as hell. All of us are disappointed but only an idiot would consider it a failure. When I heard the Purdue had been to the FF in roughly 40 years and Tenn has never been to a FF, it once again proves how hard it is to make the FF.

I hope they keep knocking on the door and giving themselves chances to go deep. The worst part of being a fan is almost every year of your fandom ends in disappointment. To be honest, if they had won on Friday and lost on Sunday by shooting 4-31 from three, I would not feel any better or think the season was a vastly bigger success.

Except for '77,  the Al years were a disappointment. Not! Just a little perspective after our bubble was popped to end the season.

[Scoop Snoop]

We played Burns by far better than anybody else has in weeks. Only 4 points and 4 rebounds in 27 minutes.

I did think Shaka waited too long in adjusting to Burns' passing ability, though. We didn't need to double him as often or as hard as we did. When we did less of that in the second half, he still wasn't able to do much against us himself, and it created fewer passing options for him.

A lot of talent, though. I'm especially impressed with his quick first step and his passing.

True regarding Burns when considering just him. But the combo of him plus his teammates gave us trouble.

I saw that you stayed off Scoop for a while after the game. As a matter of self-discipline, I stay off at least 24 hours after a loss. Right after the game, I practiced a music score that requires a lot of attention to detail. I like to clear things like ..whatever the Hell that was...out of my head. Practicing the score was like a fire break.