Stack Ranking: NCAAB Accomplishments

[MUFlutieEffect]

Curious to get opinions on the relative importance of the various accomplishments available throughout the college basketball season. 

In lieu of the poll function's capabilities, will have to rely on replies, but hoping to get Scoop's thoughts on how to 'rank' the following (listed in chronological order):

• Fall Non-Con Tourney Championship (e.g., Maui Invitational)
• Win a Conference Regular Season Championship
• Win a Conference Tournament Championship
• Qualify for the NCAA Tournament
• NCAA Sweet 16
• NCAA Final Four
• NCAA Championship

[MUFlutieEffect]

I have a hunch I value the regular season more than most Scoopers.  I'd go with:

• NCAA Championship
• NCAA Final Four
• Conference Regular Season Championship
• NCAA Sweet 16
• Conference Tournament Championship
• NCAA Tournament
• Fall Non-Con Tourney Championship

[CountryRoads]

1. NCAA Championship
2. Final Four

Huge Gap

3. Sweet 16
4. Conference Regular Season Champ

Huge Gap

5. Qualify for NCAA as Top 4 seed

Gap

6. Conference Tourney Champ
7. Qualify for NCAA as 5 or lower

Massive Gap

7. November tourney


Comments:

- NCAA champ and final four speak for themselves. Legendary years regardless of how you got there.

- Sweet 16 usually needs more context. NC State had a garbage year and beat a 14 seed to get there. Had they lost to us, I'd have taken a great regular season over the course of several months versus their run. That'd still be true if they lose tomorrow.

- Conference regular season championships don't really mean anything to me, though it's critical to be in the mix for them. I usually find myself just as happy finishing second.

- NCAA bid is the baseline for success here. I think the seed matters so I broke it up and sandwiched the conference tourney in between.

- Don't really care about conference tourney championships. It's just a good marketing opportunity for our program and a chance to get some quality wins. March Madness just completely overshadows its importance less than a week after.

- November tourneys are fun but no one cares who won them at the end of the year. Great vacation opportunity and a chance to pick up quality wins.

[wisblue]

1. NCAA Championship
2. Final Four

Huge Gap

3. Sweet 16
4. Conference Regular Season Champ

Huge Gap

5. Qualify for NCAA as Top 4 seed
6. Conference Tourney Champ
7. Qualify for NCAA as 5 or lower

Massive Gap

7. November tourney


Comments:

- NCAA champ and final four speak for themselves. Legendary years regardless of how you got there.

- Sweet 16 usually needs more context. NC State had a garbage year and beat a 14 seed to get there. Had they lost to us, I'd have taken a great regular season over the course of several months versus their run. That'd still be true if they lose tomorrow.

- Conference regular season championships don't really mean anything to me, though it's critical to be in the mix for them. I usually find myself just as happy finishing second.

- NCAA bid is the baseline for success here. I think the seed matters so I broke it up and sandwiched the conference tourney in between.

- Don't really care about conference tourney championships. It's just a good marketing opportunity for our program and a chance to get some quality wins. March Madness just completely overshadows its importance less than a week after.

- November tourneys are fun but no one cares who won them at the end of the year. Great vacation opportunity and a chance to pick up quality wins.

I generally agree with you, especially the comments about context. I will never be able to completely value NCAA performance over the regular season. As a simple example, it isn't even a question for me that the 22-23 MU season was much better than the 2011 team that scraped to an 11 seed but made the Sweet 16 before bowing out.

NC State is providing an example for me that I would not prefer just any crappy regular season that is followed by a Final Four appearance over a season that provides 4 1/2 months of entertainment, several good wins, and anticipation.

Winning the championship? Sure, that's the ultimate prize. But losing in the Final Four would not salvage a lousy season for me. All it does is give you another week of enjoyment before the disappointment. And when the season ends with that kind of team with 5 grad transfers, all you have to look forward to is wondering what soldiers of fortune your team will come up with to field a team next year.

[rocky_warrior]

NC State is providing an example for me that I would not prefer just any crappy regular season that is followed by a Final Four appearance over a season that provides 4 1/2 months of entertainment, several good wins, and anticipation.

Wow, I'd trade a FF over every other Shaka accomplishment.

And I wouldn't diminish our opponent that beat us and made it there over us.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Wow, I'd trade a FF over every other Shaka accomplishment.

And I wouldn't diminish our opponent that beat us and made it there over us.

Totally - Attending a Final Four with Marquette involved is one of my favorite sports/life memories.  Sustained success (conf/BET championships) make for a better MU experience year in and year out, but I wouldn't trade 2003 for the 2022/23 season.

[wisblue]

Totally - Attending a Final Four with Marquette involved is one of my favorite sports/life memories.  Sustained success (conf/BET championships) make for a better MU experience year in and year out, but I wouldn't trade 2003 for the 2022/23 season.

The 2003 Final Four is not the same situation. That came at the end of a season in which MU was rated in the top 10 and had a 3 seed.

That's why I say context matters.

[The Sultan]

As a fan, I would trade Marquette's season for NC State's in a heartbeat regardless of the outcome next Saturday.

[rocky_warrior]

That's why I say context matters.

Context:  You think  NC State sucks right now.

What does that say about Marquette?

[wisblue]

Wow, I'd trade a FF over every other Shaka accomplishment.

And I wouldn't diminish our opponent that beat us and made it there over us.

I'm not "diminishing" NC State's accomplishment. But if they get knocked out in the Final Four I don't think they accomplished anything special when put in the context of the rest of the season.

[The Sultan]

I'm not "diminishing" NC State's accomplishment. But if they get knocked out in the Final Four I don't think they accomplished anything special when put in the context of the rest of the season.

You don't think winning five games in five days to even qualify for the NCAAT, then winning four games to get to the Final Four is "special?"

It's legendary. First Final Four in 40+ years with a team full of fun personalities now gets to play in the pinnacle tournament of the sport? I think 99% of teams would want that regardless of their regular season.

[wisblue]

Context:  You think  NC State sucks right now.

What does that say about Marquette?

Did not say that either.

The context I'm talking about is from a fan's perspective and how much enjoyment I would get from the whole season.

I know I'm in the minority on this, but it doesn't make me wrong. It's a matter of taste.

[ATWizJr]

Context:  You think  NC State sucks right now.

What does that say about Marquette?

It means our expectations were unreasonable. COLE was the realistic approach.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

It means our expectations were unreasonable. COLE was the realistic approach.

Are you seriously making multiple posts patting yourself on the back for predicting a cold shooting night on an MU fan board? 

Odd but I'm glad it makes you feel so great to be right....

[MU82]

Are you seriously making multiple posts patting yourself on the back for predicting a cold shooting night on an MU fan board? 

Odd but I'm glad it makes you feel so great to be right....

The Eeyores predicted catastrophe several times a week. They were too busy doing that to enjoy the season. And then, when they finally get one prediction right, they suffer rotator-cuff tears while patting themselves on the back.

As for the OP and the discussion that followed ... As much as I enjoyed these past two seasons, I'd take NC State's run over a conference title or earning a #2 seed. It's not even close to me.

[Doo]

NCAA Championship (6 Straight Wins in 3 weeks to close out the season)
NCAA Final 4 (4 Straight Wins in 2 weeks against some good competiton)
NCAA Elite 8 (3 Straight Wins in 2 weeks)
Conference Tourney Champ (3 Straight Wins in 3 Days against Conference foes)
Conference Season Champ (15+ Wins over 3 grueling months)
NCAA Sweet 16 (2 Wins in 3 days)
Non-Con Tourney Champ (2 - 3 Wins in 2-3 days but wrong time of the year)

[Mu8891]

82 - I agree ...

I'd trade the last year - actually the last two - for a FF run ( a la NC ST ) any day of the week

Let's be honest ... MU has made one FF in 50 years

[JakeBarnes]

The Eeyores predicted catastrophe several times a week. They were too busy doing that to enjoy the season. And then, when they finally get one prediction right, they suffer rotator-cuff tears while patting themselves on the back.

As for the OP and the discussion that followed ... As much as I enjoyed these past two seasons, I'd take NC State's run over a conference title or earning a #2 seed. It's not even close to me.

The good news is I think a run is a lot closer than many think. But it always sucks the most right when the season ends.

[MU82]

The good news is I think a run is a lot closer than many think. But it always sucks the most right when the season ends.

Yep.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

1. NCAA Champ
2. Final Four
3. Conf Tourney Champ (If you were in NYC last year you'd understand.)
4. Regular Season Champ
5. Sweet Sixteen
6. NCAA Tourney
7. Fall Non Con Tourney

[BallBoy]

I'm not "diminishing" NC State's accomplishment. But if they get knocked out in the Final Four I don't think they accomplished anything special when put in the context of the rest of the season.

No one remembers a random regular season but they can tell you where they were when their team makes the Final Four.  And what they were wearing.

Without looking pick MU's five best victories in the 02-03 regular season. Now tell me who they beat in route to the FF.

Absolutely no comparison.

[MUfan12]

Without looking pick MU's five best victories in the 02-03 regular season. Now tell me who they beat in route to the FF.

@UL
Wake
UW
Cincy
@Cincy

Holy Cross, Missouri, Pitt, Kentucky.

[wisblue]

No one remembers a random regular season but they can tell you where they were when their team makes the Final Four.  And what they were wearing.

Without looking pick MU's five best victories in the 02-03 regular season. Now tell me who they beat in route to the FF.

Absolutely no comparison.

Actually, for me you are making the exact opposite point than the one you are trying to make.

As an MU fan for about 60 years, and a full season ticket holder for the last 22, I remember many great MU victories that I saw in person or on TV that occurred in seasons that did not end with Final Four appearances. That includes several in the last two years.

And I don't remember what I was wearing when MU defeated Michigan in 1974, or Wake Forest in 1977, or Kentucky in 2003 to advance to the Final Four.

I also have an alma mater that has appeared in 6 Final Fours (one while I was in school there) and won a championship since I was a student, and I don't remember what I was wearing when they won the games that sent them to the Final Four either.

I don't consider the four months of games that precede the Final Four to be irrelevant exhibitions that are rendered meaningless if there isn't a Final Four appearance at the end of the road.

[BallBoy]

Actually, for me you are making the exact opposite point than the one you are trying to make.

As an MU fan for about 60 years, and a full season ticket holder for the last 22, I remember many great MU victories that I saw in person or on TV that occurred in seasons that did not end with Final Four appearances. That includes several in the last two years.

And I don't remember what I was wearing when MU defeated Michigan in 1974, or Wake Forest in 1977, or Kentucky in 2003 to advance to the Final Four.

I also have an alma mater that has appeared in 6 Final Fours (one while I was in school there) and won a championship since I was a student, and I don't remember what I was wearing when they won the games that sent them to the Final Four either.

I don't consider the four months of games that precede the Final Four to be irrelevant exhibitions that are rendered meaningless if there isn't a Final Four appearance at the end of the road.

No one said the regular season was meaningless nor is it Final Four or nothing but you can't say the significance of a good regular season outweighs the significance of a Final Four.  A regular season is well regular.  Happens every year so having a good one isn't rare.  We have had three good regular seasons in the last three years.  Heck, Wojo had 3 good regular seasons in his 7 years. We haven't been to the Final Four in 21 years and we have 3 final fours in the last 50. 

In a world of stacked ranking, there is a significant difference between we had a good season and we made the final four.  I guaranteed you NC State Fans do not care right now that they had a mediocre season.  They will talk about the Final four and ACC Tournament run for decades.  A deep tournament run forgives a lot of mediocrity and a short run changes the perspective of what a good season was.

[wisblue]

No one said the regular season was meaningless

You said that "no one remembers a random regular season" and I was addressing that.

I remember things about every season if I was around to follow it.

The thing that is unique about the NC State situation is that they didn't even have a regular season good enough to get an at large bid to the NCAA tournament. That's a pretty low bar for a team in a power conference that has ample opportunities to pick up quality wins and usually only has to win a few of them to get a bid.

Can anybody think of another power conference team in the 64/68 team field era that made the Final Four after such a dreary regular season?