White Sox/Bears Stadium Showdown

[DegenerateDish]

I figured I'd start this as it's own thread for those interested in this topic.

I've mentioned in both the MLB & NFL threads about the showdown going on in Illinois between the Sox and Bears fight to utilize TIF funds of $500 Million.

White Sox have been moving quickly to win this fight against the Bears, and threw an interesting haymaker at the Bears late this afternoon. The $1 Billion proposal includes rolling the ISFA tax into the new Sox park plan, retiring the city's obligation to pay off Soldier Field debt. Clearly would be a huge blow for the Bears to build in the city.

I'm not sure what Kevin Warren's long game is here, with Arlington making too much sense. The least shocking thing was the Bears tax relief proposal in Arlington getting rejected. Long term, the property tax bill would be insignificant, they'd be printing money in Arlington. Warren & the Bears posturing here is dumbfounding. Even if (big if) they owned the south lot at Soldier Field, that would still be a nightmare to move the team for a year or two to construct, and then still be a tenant to the city.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It kinda feels like this whole Kevin Warren thing has been a big dud for the Bears. Or is this continued interference by the family.

[DegenerateDish]

It kinda feels like this whole Kevin Warren thing has been a big dud for the Bears. Or is this continued interference by the family.

The "day in the life" article on Kevin Warren (right around Christmas on the Bears site) was one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

Considering the Bears bought Arlington before Warren was even hired, it's hard to find anything of substance that he's done during his Bears career.

[Pakuni]

It kinda feels like this whole Kevin Warren thing has been a big dud for the Bears. Or is this continued interference by the family.

Ted Phillips was all in on Arlington.  He considered closing the deal for the land his closing legacy.
Warren came in, and has either legitimately turned the team's attention to the city or wants everyone to think that as a ham-fisted negotiating ploy.
Either way, the thing I keep coming back to is that the Bears paid about 50% more for the Arlington Park property than the next highest bidder. Which may indicate they're in for a huge loss if they try to flip it. Are theMcCaskeys (most of whom live in the suburbs, btw) willing to walk away from that money?

[dgies9156]

When I read of he current tax controversy with the Arlington Heights site, all I could think of was "Welcome to the Suburbs, Bears!"

Around Chicago, there are so many blood sucking school districts that I'm amazed at how real estate values could appreciate at all. In my old suburb, we had an $87 million surplus so the district did the one thing every competitive suburban school district should do -- build a $27 million swimming pool! In many communities, they'd rebate the surplus back to the property tax payers. But, NOT IN ILLINOIS!!!

The Bears ran into the school district tax problem big time and if they build a stadium, it will only get worse. The Bears know it, which is why they're shopping for a new home in the city. I'm not sure dealing with Mayor Brandon is a good idea but, who knows?

If I were the Bears, I'd start growing corn on the property and get an agriculture exemption. Or find some other permitted use that will tax exempt the property?

Ministry anyone?????? Be a nice tax deduction! Joel Osteen could move to Arlington Heights!

Years ago, when the Bears and R2D2 (Richard II, or the kid) were negotiating for the reconstruction of Soldier Field into a giant, obsolete toilet seat, the late Mikey McCaskey threatened to move the Bears to Buffington Harbor, IN (Gary, for all you uninformed, non-gamblers). I'm beginning to think the Bears wished they'd called R2D2s bluff and actually moved there!

[Skatastrophy]

I hope the bears move out of the city. They struggle to fill the stadium and block out the calendar for more interesting things at Soldier Field for the whole fall to protect the grass.

The Sox should build a stadium on their own dime in the 78, which will give them a wonderful accessible urban stadium. Bridgeport will be happy to recoup those parking lots segregating their neighborhood.

Win win win

[Jockey]

Bears. Sox. Who cares.

I assume the Sox want a tax break to get the last few less-than-mediocre FAs on the market.

[Pakuni]

When I read of he current tax controversy with the Arlington Heights site, all I could think of was "Welcome to the Suburbs, Bears!"

Around Chicago, there are so many blood sucking school districts that I'm amazed at how real estate values could appreciate at all. In my old suburb, we had an $87 million surplus so the district did the one thing every competitive suburban school district should do -- build a $27 million swimming pool! In many communities, they'd rebate the surplus back to the property tax payers. But, NOT IN ILLINOIS!!!

The Bears ran into the school district tax problem big time and if they build a stadium, it will only get worse. The Bears know it, which is why they're shopping for a new home in the city. I'm not sure dealing with Mayor Brandon is a good idea but, who knows?

If I were the Bears, I'd start growing corn on the property and get an agriculture exemption. Or find some other permitted use that will tax exempt the property?

Ministry anyone?????? Be a nice tax deduction! Joel Osteen could move to Arlington Heights!

Years ago, when the Bears and R2D2 (Richard II, or the kid) were negotiating for the reconstruction of Soldier Field into a giant, obsolete toilet seat, the late Mikey McCaskey threatened to move the Bears to Buffington Harbor, IN (Gary, for all you uninformed, non-gamblers). I'm beginning to think the Bears wished they'd called R2D2s bluff and actually moved there!

Bears paid $197 million for the property and want it valued at $60 million for tax purposes for the next 40 years.
But yeah, it's the school districts that are greedy.

[JWags85]

The "day in the life" article on Kevin Warren (right around Christmas on the Bears site) was one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

It was horrible and really bizarre.  And honestly it read like a puff piece for a religious magazine "How an NFL Team President Lets Faith Guide Gameday" which just feels odd for a team website piece.  And given everything going on with the Bears, the whole article was just like "why?"

[Lennys Tap]

Bears paid $197 million for the property and want it valued at $60 million for tax purposes for the next 40 years.
But yeah, it's the school districts that are greedy.

What was the tax bill on the property the year before the Bear's bought it? What's the new tax bill AH is proposing?

[Jockey]

Bad teams always come from bad leadership.

[Pakuni]

What was the tax bill on the property the year before the Bear's bought it? What's the new tax bill AH is proposing?

Churchill Downs' last payment was $7.8 million.
Under the Bears' proposed valuation, their bill would be about $4.7 million.

Arlington Heights isn't involved. After the Bears paid $197 million for the property, the Cook County assessor revaluaed it closer to the sale price ($192 million). The Bears appealed that, arguing that it's really worth  $60 million. The Board of Review last week sided with the assessor, but in the meantime the Bears and three school districts that serve the property are negotiating and the BOR says they'll accept any agreement they reach. The latest from those negotiations is that the Bears are sticking to $60 million while the districts are arguing $160 million.

At the same time this is happening, the Bears want a subsidiy known as Payments in Lieu of Taxes. This is essentially a glorified TIF district, except instead of lasting 23 years it would last 40.
That's why this initial valuation is so important for both sides. It' could set the baseline tax payment for the next four decades.  For all intents, a stadium would be outdated and ready for the wrecking ball by the time the school districts (and parks, libraries, village, etc.) see any additional tax benefit from $5 billion in development.

[jesmu84]

Slightly OT:

Using public money to build a stadium for a billionaire is dumb.

[Lennys Tap]

Churchill Downs' last payment was $7.8 million.
Under the Bears' proposed valuation, their bill would be about $4.7 million.

Arlington Heights isn't involved. After the Bears paid $197 million for the property, the Cook County assessor revaluaed it closer to the sale price ($192 million). The Bears appealed that, arguing that it's really worth  $60 million. The Board of Review last week sided with the assessor, but in the meantime the Bears and three school districts that serve the property are negotiating and the BOR says they'll accept any agreement they reach. The latest from those negotiations is that the Bears are sticking to $60 million while the districts are arguing $160 million.

At the same time this is happening, the Bears want a subsidiy known as Payments in Lieu of Taxes. This is essentially a glorified TIF district, except instead of lasting 23 years it would last 40.
That's why this initial valuation is so important for both sides. It' could set the baseline tax payment for the next four decades.  For all intents, a stadium would be outdated and ready for the wrecking ball by the time the school districts (and parks, libraries, village, etc.) see any additional tax benefit from $5 billion in development.

So Arlington Park (I guess now Churchill Downs) paid 7.8 million. The Bears want to pay 4.7. What does Cook County want the payment to be?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So Arlington Park (I guess now Churchill Downs) paid 7.8 million. The Bears want to pay 4.7. What does Cook County want the payment to be?

Pak said that they would accept whatever the negotiations between the school districts and the Bears come up with.

The problem from the Bears POV is that the districts know that any developer isn't going to get the deal the Bears are seeking.

[aands86]

So Arlington Park (I guess now Churchill Downs) paid 7.8 million. The Bears want to pay 4.7. What does Cook County want the payment to be?

$15M

[Lennys Tap]

$15M

So they want to double the tax years before any revenue from the property will be possible. Probably room for negotiation from both sides.

[Pakuni]

So they want to double the tax years before any revenue from the property will be possible. Probably room for negotiation from both sides.

Nobody made the Bears set the value at $197 million.

[Lennys Tap]

Nobody made the Bears set the value at $197 million.

Perhaps you're right and there is no room for negotiation. I guess we'll see.

[WarriorFan]

Not a bears fan, but I've always enjoyed Chicago.
What's wrong with Soldier Field? 
wouldn't it be better to keep the team in the city?
Is a stadium in the 'burb going to make the bears not suck?  I don't think so. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Not a bears fan, but I've always enjoyed Chicago.
What's wrong with Soldier Field? 
wouldn't it be better to keep the team in the city?
Is a stadium in the 'burb going to make the bears not suck?  I don't think so. 

It's too small. The team doesn't have any ownership of the land around it to generate other sources of income. The field stinks. It's not easy to access.

[WhiteTrash]

It's too small. The team doesn't have any ownership of the land around it to generate other sources of income. The field stinks. It's not easy to access.

All true. But I have to say it is the best stadium I've been to, in college or NFL, to watch a game. You are very close to the field and not a bad seat in the house. Still, it is time for a change.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Also...

You can't host a Super Bowl at Soldier Field, or pretty much anything else.  It's field is too small to host World Cup games. The third largest metro area in the country needs a better outdoor stadium for all sorts of reasons.

What I can't figure out about this entire Arlington Park issue is...how could they not have figured this all out earlier? It just seems like a giant misstep to buy this entire plot of land, draw up a plan for a stadium complex, yet not deal with the tax implications.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Also...

You can't host a Super Bowl at Soldier Field, or pretty much anything else.  It's field is too small to host World Cup games. The third largest metro area in the country needs a better outdoor stadium for all sorts of reasons.

What I can't figure out about this entire Arlington Park issue is...how could they not have figured this all out earlier? It just seems like a giant misstep to buy this entire plot of land, draw up a plan for a stadium complex, yet not deal with the tax implications.

New to Illinois and Cook County politics? 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Right. That's why I can't figure out why they didn't wrap this up earlier instead of purchasing it and figuring it out afterward.  Plus, it seems to me at least, that Pak is largely correct here. Not sure why the school districts are the problem here.