Kolek Taunts

[NickelDimer]

All this stuff does is add to the legend. Absolutely love this kid.

[muwarrior97]

Maybe he's a Cardinals fan

#BOOM 

[The Sultan]

Tony Miller was a thowback version of a point guard that was getting out of style even when he played. He was fun to watch but Tyler, Travis and DJ were clearly better.

[Galway Eagle]

Who all is in the post Al running aside from Kolek?

Doc

Miller

Travis

Dom James

Markus(?)

I don't know the non doc 80s nor who was between miller and Travis.

Thinking you can eliminate Acker, Cadougan (though the march success is huge), Rowsey, Morsell, Carton, Chartouny, and Derrick.

[StillAWarrior]

I don't know the non doc 80s nor who was between miller and Travis.

Tony Smith was a hell of a guard. Played through some rough years.

[Galway Eagle]

Tony Smith was a hell of a guard. Played through some rough years.

Didn't realize he was a PG. thanks

[BrewCity83]

Sam Worthen was post-Al. 

[The Sultan]

I don't know the non doc 80s nor who was between miller and Travis.

So mid-80s...was Mandy Johnson a point guard?

Then you have Pops Sims, who would have been alright with better offense around him. - eigth

Tony Smith - probably should have him fourth

Then Miller - fifth

Then Aaron Hutchins - sixth

Then Cordell Henry - Seventh

Then Diener

[Goose]

Sultan

Yes, Mandy was a PG and loved his D as well. We have had this discussion before on scoop, but I think know it is safe to safe TK is the best post Al and climbing all time status.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Who all is in the post Al running aside from Kolek?

Doc

Miller

Travis

Dom James

Markus(?)

I don't know the non doc 80s nor who was between miller and Travis.

Thinking you can eliminate Acker, Cadougan (though the march success is huge), Rowsey, Morsell, Carton, Chartouny, and Derrick.

Of note...
Dean
Marcus Washington
Lloyd Walton
Butch and Jimmy Boylan were really combos
Sam Worthen
Mandy
Doc/Michael Wilson were combos
Pop Sims
Tony Smith (one year)
Tony Miller
Hutch
Henry

[Goose]

Dr. B

Based off your list and my memory, as pure PG TK is nearing the all time best in my book. How about you?

I have always loved PG play and some very good names on that list. I would have to think very hard to find someone that made every guy on the court better than the job TK has done. There are a decent number of better guards than TK, but a short list at PG.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Dr. B

Based off your list and my memory, as pure PG TK is nearing the all time best in my book. How about you?

I have always loved PG play and some very good names on that list. I would have to think very hard to find someone that made every guy on the court better than the job TK has done. There are a decent number of better guards than TK, but a short list at PG.

MU is historically Point Guard University. I think Tyler's story still needs to be written but I will comment below. Combo guards won't make my final list.

Statistically best offensively is Travis with Tyler a close second. Rowsey third. Not much defense among them.
Most underrated is Lucky Lloyd with Hutch a close 2nd.
Best scorer: Markus
Best Floor General: Sam
Best defensively: Dom and Dean
Most dominant season: Tony Smith
Best dimer: Tony Miller
Best Passer: Sam
Best in PnR: Tyler
Clutch: Diener, Hutch, Tyler

As of now, I'd go Diener, Dom and Tyler. Tyler's back half of conference last season was the best I have ever seen but I have to consider his Year 1 and parts of this season as choppy and forced. All made others better and all could take over games.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I still prefer UConn Twitter to Providence Twitter.

UConn fans are cocky (rightfully so) but they still support the Big East knowing a good Big East benefits them as well.

Providence fans seem to want every Big East team to suck with no regard for anything.

Also, UConn account @noescalators is a great follow.  Loves to get in Marquette and Kolek jabs in but even he had to give Tyler props last night.

Living in Connecticut all my life except for four years in Wisconsin, Providence fans are the worst.

[brewcity77]

Well given it was only broken a couple years ago and again not long before that it didn't seem like it should be included. But I agree it's highly unlikely that gets touched unless we get a carbon copy of Markus who doesn't get concussed or makes a tournament run.

I think even a carbon copy of Markus wouldn't get Markus' usage in our current system. His prodigious scoring was enabled by both his high-usage tendency and his coach's tendency to feed his best player as much as possible. At this level, the majority of people capable of scoring the way Markus did are going to be off to the NBA before their four years are done.

Also, the highest PPG average in Shaka's career for an individual player was Justin Lewis at 16.8. If we ever see someone put up 25+ in multiple seasons, it probably won't be until after Shaka's time here is done.

[We R Final Four]

Mandy Johnson was a great PG. OG floor slapper.

[Goose]

Dr. B

We are definitely in agreement greatest players by categories. While admittedly have a big bias against Tony Miller, I still would take TK over him as best dimer. Obviously, I am not looking strictly at stats in that category. I am very big fan of Sam and cannot argue your rankings, but I think TK could be in there for best general and possibly passer. Would not say he is better, but definitely think it is fair argument having them both noted. I possibly could include TK with Tony Smith for most dominant season. Tony Smith was outstanding, but what TK did last season, especially the last 10-12 games of the regular season was pretty dominant.

The one big area we differ on is the ability to make everyone on the floor better. I agree that all made other guys better, but I think TK is the best in that category.

All that said, TK is my best since Al and top 2-3 at the moment. There is work still to be done and I think he can only go up in my book. We have been blessed with unreal PG my entire life and there are a lot of great names on the list.

[Goose]

We R FF

Mandy was a very good PG, but struggled by not having a great a handle. I could argue he was as good D James as a defender because he was that good on defense. Will add that I have a big pro bias for Mandy due to our friendship during his time at MU.

[Galway Eagle]

While admittedly have a big bias against Tony Miller,

Is there a reason for this thats scoop appropriate or just not a fan of his game?

[We R Final Four]

We R FF

Mandy was a very good PG, but struggled by not having a great a handle. I could argue he was as good D James as a defender because he was that good on defense. Will add that I have a big pro bias for Mandy due to our friendship during his time at MU.

Yes...better on defensive end....quick as hell.

[Goose]

Galway

Liked Tony the person a lot, not a fan of the style of basketball he played. That said, his game against UK gave MU the ticket to the S16. In fairness, his style was exactly what KO wanted and it he did his job well. There would be a lot of fans of his because he might have 300+ assists on mid-range jumpers being made.

Like my negative bias on Markus is probably 90% on Wojo, the same holds true on KO with Tony Miller. Not name dropping, but I gave KO a hard time about his style of offense hours before the MU-Purdue game this year. I love what KO did for MU but was not a major fan of the style of play.

[Galway Eagle]

Thanks for elaborating, was just curious.

MU is historically Point Guard University. I think Tyler's story still needs to be written but I will comment below. Combo guards won't make my final list.

Statistically best offensively is Travis with Tyler a close second. Rowsey third. Not much defense among them.
Most underrated is Lucky Lloyd with Hutch a close 2nd.
Best scorer: Markus
Best Floor General: Sam
Best defensively: Dom and Dean
Most dominant season: Tony Smith
Best dimer: Tony Miller
Best Passer: Sam
Best in PnR: Tyler
Clutch: Diener, Hutch, Tyler

As of now, I'd go Diener, Dom and Tyler. Tyler's back half of conference last season was the best I have ever seen but I have to consider his Year 1 and parts of this season as choppy and forced. All made others better and all could take over games.

I'm sure that this list is fantastic but I don't think anyone can have a PG discussion without at least giving a mention to the fact that Cadougan went NCAA as a backup back from injury, then S16 as a well used backup/occasional starter, then S16, E8 as the general. Nothing flashy beyond the UConn shot but man something to be said for having the most decorated tenure since AL.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Galway

Liked Tony the person a lot, not a fan of the style of basketball he played. That said, his game against UK gave MU the ticket to the S16. In fairness, his style was exactly what KO wanted and it he did his job well. There would be a lot of fans of his because he might have 300+ assists on mid-range jumpers being made.

Like my negative bias on Markus is probably 90% on Wojo, the same holds true on KO with Tony Miller. Not name dropping, but I gave KO a hard time about his style of offense hours before the MU-Purdue game this year. I love what KO did for MU but was not a major fan of the style of play.

Totally agree on KO's offense. That said, Tony Miller averaged almost 8 assists a game for four years. If he could have been able to shoot, that means he had a strong possibility of a double double every game. And in that offense.

Tyler is by far the better player, and is certainly an all timer.  But he isn't the All Dimer. Close but you need to consider the entire body of work.

[muwarrior69]

Galway

Liked Tony the person a lot, not a fan of the style of basketball he played. That said, his game against UK gave MU the ticket to the S16. In fairness, his style was exactly what KO wanted and it he did his job well. There would be a lot of fans of his because he might have 300+ assists on mid-range jumpers being made.

Like my negative bias on Markus is probably 90% on Wojo, the same holds true on KO with Tony Miller. Not name dropping, but I gave KO a hard time about his style of offense hours before the MU-Purdue game this year. I love what KO did for MU but was not a major fan of the style of play.

Most here don't like UW's style of play, but damn they keep winning.

[Goose]

Dr. B

I agree that body of work really does matter. That said, Dwade had a short stint at MU, and I believe he is the greatest player by an extremely wide margin. Will add, which I thankfully forgot, Tony Miller could not shoot and I love PG that can shoot. That is why Lloyd is high on my list. He played in a stale office and still was not afraid to drain an 18-20ft jumper from the top of the key. Lloyd was an outstanding PG in a very boring offense.

Muwarrior69

While I am in all in guy, I do realize all in seldom or never happens. I'll take an explosive offense for 30+ games and enjoy the hell out of it. I loved the Al era 100% because of the defense, star power and winning but only got all in one time. I'll take the UW model if all in happens, but not just to be another team that does not win it all. I'll take entertainment for 30+ games over boring basketball if the end result is the same.

[Jay Bee]

Most here don't like UW's style of play, but damn they keep winning.

Depends on ur def of winning

Bummer Storr went there