Yesterday Was Fun but...

[wisblue]

I mentioned elsewhere that our defenders got right into the faces of Nova's "would-be" 3 point shooters in the second half. Instead of launching yet another 3, they wisely chose to pass the ball instead. The key was to figure out to whom the ball was going on the three point line and very quickly get your ass over there. They got 4 (vs. 9 in the first half) while the outcome of the game was still in question plus one more after a missed MU FT in the closing seconds.

The 3 point defense was much better in the second half. One of the makes by Hausen was from so far out that it would be pretty hard to prevent him from launching it.

You could see how teams would feel when Rowsey was making them from out there.

Part of the second half issue was Nova picking up the rebounds on their misses. But the 4 or 5 turnovers they had to start the second half were pivotal.

[Scoop Snoop]

The 3 point defense was much better in the second half. One of the makes by Hausen was from so far out that it would be pretty hard to prevent him from launching it.

You could see how teams would feel when Rowsey was making them from out there.

Part of the second half issue was Nova picking up the rebounds on their misses. But the 4 or 5 turnovers they had to start the second half were pivotal.

Yep on the bolded, as well as the rest of your reply.

Did you see PC's Carter's laughable attempt to do a Rowsey "thing" in a recent game? I don't know which was the funniest-his "thing" attempt or his hysterical attempt at being outraged that he didn't get the call. Missed the three badly and threw himself sideways in the (alleged) act of shooting to create contact. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

OK, but what about our 3 pt defense. I now it is just the eye test but it seems either the whole (Purdue, Nova) team or one poor 3 pt shooter just shoots the light out against us.

Our 3P defense currently ranks 188th in the country which is approximately in the 48th percentile. So we're average there.

3P defense is a bit of misnomer, as others said, it mostly comes down to luck, but there is value in denying good three point shooters from getting attempts (for example,  cheating off Stevie but staying glued to Joplin can be good defense). There is also value in denying unguarded threes vs. allowing guarded threes.

I happen to have the Villanova numbers handy. Villanova shot 7/9 on unguarded threes against us. Giving up 9 unguarded threes isn't good (bad 3P defense), but them making 7 of them is absurd (bad luck). An average team would likely make 4/9 and would be more likely to make 3/9 than 5/9. Nova as it happens has been a below average team this season making unguarded threes so on a normal night they would have made about 3/9.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Our 3P defense currently ranks 188th in the country which is approximately in the 48th percentile. So we're average there.

3P defense is a bit of misnomer, as others said, it mostly comes down to luck, but there is value in denying good three point shooters from getting attempts (for example,  cheating off Stevie but staying glued to Joplin can be good defense). There is also value in denying unguarded threes vs. allowing guarded threes.

I happen to have the Villanova numbers handy. Villanova shot 7/9 on unguarded threes against us. Giving up 9 unguarded threes isn't good (bad 3P defense), but them making 7 of them is absurd (bad luck). An average team would likely make 4/9 and would be more likely to make 3/9 than 5/9. Nova as it happens has been a below average team this season making unguarded threes so on a normal night they would have made about 3/9.

So are you able to compile those numbers across other games or across the season in terms of the percentages our opponents are hitting from 3 while unguarded and guarded (I'm not sure if those are the only categories)?  I was saying in another post it has felt like we've been very unlucky this year in regards to that but it could just be bias.  Very curious about what those numbers are. 

[Dr. Blackheart]

Our 3P defense currently ranks 188th in the country which is approximately in the 48th percentile. So we're average there.

3P defense is a bit of misnomer, as others said, it mostly comes down to luck, but there is value in denying good three point shooters from getting attempts (for example,  cheating off Stevie but staying glued to Joplin can be good defense). There is also value in denying unguarded threes vs. allowing guarded threes.

I happen to have the Villanova numbers handy. Villanova shot 7/9 on unguarded threes against us. Giving up 9 unguarded threes isn't good (bad 3P defense), but them making 7 of them is absurd (bad luck). An average team would likely make 4/9 and would be more likely to make 3/9 than 5/9. Nova as it happens has been a below average team this season making unguarded threes so on a normal night they would have made about 3/9.

Bingo. MU has been late on rotations all season.

[MUfan12]

Bingo. MU has been late on rotations all season.

TK and Jop are two of the worst offenders here. Ball watching.

[NotAnAlum]

I share TAMU's fears.  I don't think we'll be as fortunate with other teams.  The word is out on MU and teams are doing to give up open 3s to protect the paint until we prove that we can make them.  While VU was shooting out of their mind that Hausen guard is a great shooter.  I think this is where Shaka's recruiting philosophy could use some tweaking.  MU really needs a guy they can count on to hit 3s even deep threes.  Instead we have a bunch of guys who are great defensively and can handle switching all 5 positions but we don't recruit anyone who is first and foremost a shooter.  I realize this means we might give up some defense if we are giving up quickness for shooting in one guy.  Having a guy like Hausen could save us when we're in a situation like we were against Butler.  We'd probably be more likely to get a guy like that out of the portal where they would have already proven they have solid deep shooting.  Until we do we will be in trouble if Kam and TKO and Jop have off nights. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

What happens if our new great shooter has an off night ?

[tower912]

Rowsey, Howard, and the Hauser that could shoot, come on back.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Rowsey, Howard, and the Hauser that could shoot, come on back.

Kon was it but Duke offers a million +

[Dr. Blackheart]

TK and Jop are two of the worst offenders here. Ball watching.

And MU leads the country on dumb trey line fouls with less than five seconds on the shot clock by chasing late.

[Shooter McGavin]

And MU leads the country on dumb trey line fouls with less than five seconds on the shot clock by chasing late.

Yep.  Maddening.

[MU82]

I happen to have the Villanova numbers handy. Villanova shot 7/9 on unguarded threes against us. Giving up 9 unguarded threes isn't good (bad 3P defense), but them making 7 of them is absurd (bad luck). An average team would likely make 4/9 and would be more likely to make 3/9 than 5/9. Nova as it happens has been a below average team this season making unguarded threes so on a normal night they would have made about 3/9.

And the guys who were making many of them were well below average. Armstrong came in shooting 26% from 3; Moore was shooting 28%. You WANT guys like that to shoot, just as opposing coaches have dared Stevie and SJones to shoot.

[DoctorV]

Kolek can absolutely drain the triple if teams choose to sag into the paint.  We saw it earlier this season, he's in a bit of a slump.  Jop, Ben, Lowery, and Mitchell can also make that shot, it's about getting it in rhythm off of Oso touches or ball reversals.  We clearly are not a good 3pt shooting team at this juncture.  However we're not this bad and can't lose confidence.  I think there is no reason known to man why we can't shoot respectable numbers vs a pack line D.  We all know it's coming, we all know what the game plan will be vs us, knock down open shots.

All Marquettes do reach equilibrium after all

[Daniel]

"Mr. Blutarsky: Zero.Point.Zero."

"Forget it.  He's rolling."
https://youtu.be/q7vtWB4owdE?si=FLIU1DdA3t3PLFu3

[muwarrior69]

So are you able to compile those numbers across other games or across the season in terms of the percentages our opponents are hitting from 3 while unguarded and guarded (I'm not sure if those are the only categories)?  I was saying in another post it has felt like we've been very unlucky this year in regards to that but it could just be bias.  Very curious about what those numbers are. 

I have the same feeling. Don't they have charts that plot where the 3pt buckets are made on the court. The only "lucky shot" that comes to mind is that dagger to finish the first half of the Purdue game.

[MU82]

I have the same feeling. Don't they have charts that plot where the 3pt buckets are made on the court. The only "lucky shot" that comes to mind is that dagger to finish the first half of the Purdue game.

When a 26% shooter goes 5-for-9, what do you call it? Not sure if "lucky" is the right word, but maybe unfortunate for Marquette.

Similarly, when Sean Jones makes the game-winning 3 vs. UCLA and torches Creighton, was it "unlucky" for UCLA and Creighton (and "lucky" for MU)?

Maybe those aren't examples of "lucky/unlucky" as Purdue's heave, but still going against the odds.

Every coach in every game has to pick his poison. Do you focus on X, meaning that Y is gonna get some looks; or vice versa? Personally, as a fan, I'm pretty comfortable not putting the focus of the defense on the 3-point shooting of a 26% shooter.

[muwarrior69]

When a 26% shooter goes 5-for-9, what do you call it? Not sure if "lucky" is the right word, but maybe unfortunate for Marquette.

Similarly, when Sean Jones makes the game-winning 3 for UCLA and torches Creighton, was it "unlucky" for UCLA and Creighton (and "lucky" for MU)?

Maybe those aren't examples of "lucky/unlucky" as Purdue's heave, but still going against the odds.

Every coach in every game has to pick his poison. Do you focus on X, meaning that Y is gonna get some looks; or vice versa? Personally, as a fan, I'm pretty comfortable not putting the focus of the defense on the 3-point shooting of a 26% shooter.

...but the odds don't appear to be in our favor, even when we win.

[PGsHeroes32]

When a 26% shooter goes 5-for-9, what do you call it? Not sure if "lucky" is the right word, but maybe unfortunate for Marquette.

Similarly, when Sean Jones makes the game-winning 3 for UCLA and torches Creighton, was it "unlucky" for UCLA and Creighton (and "lucky" for MU)?

Maybe those aren't examples of "lucky/unlucky" as Purdue's heave, but still going against the odds.

Every coach in every game has to pick his poison. Do you focus on X, meaning that Y is gonna get some looks; or vice versa? Personally, as a fan, I'm pretty comfortable not putting the focus of the defense on the 3-point shooting of a 26% shooter.

For me its when its a culmination of a Sean Jones type hitting shots against us while normal players are also hot or at least one player going nuclear.

Like with SJ making 3/5 against creighton unlucky for them? Yeah. But they were lucky the rest of the team couldnt hit water if they fell out of a boat for a half.

vs Nova, Armstrong cant shoot at all and looked like Rowsey. But it wa a unlucky game because their whole team made ungoldy amount of unguarded 3s as tAMU showed. Woulda been less unlucky if good shooters like Hausen or Dixon were off to offset it.

Klesmit going nuclear was much different than SJ hitting 3 big shots.

I went to the Seton Hall board during their prov game(due to hopkins injury) they basically didnt talk the injury every single post was about Dawes being a borderline mass murderer and the worse player in D1. He was first team NBA vs us.

When we have a guy with a good game the team itself is still like 33% at best. We seem unlucky because entire rosters cook us from deep a lot while we have objectively a really good D all around.

[We R Final Four]

When a 26% shooter goes 5-for-9, what do you call it? Not sure if "lucky" is the right word, but maybe unfortunate for Marquette.

Similarly, when Sean Jones makes the game-winning 3 for UCLA and torches Creighton, was it "unlucky" for UCLA and Creighton (and "lucky" for MU)?

Maybe those aren't examples of "lucky/unlucky" as Purdue's heave, but still going against the odds.

Every coach in every game has to pick his poison. Do you focus on X, meaning that Y is gonna get some looks; or vice versa? Personally, as a fan, I'm pretty comfortable not putting the focus of the defense on the 3-point shooting of a 26% shooter.

Agreed....but once Klesmit and others are having that type of game, would like to see a quicker adjustment by our D.

[Scoop Snoop]

Agreed....but once Klesmit and others are having that type of game, would like to see a quicker adjustment by our D.

True. And to repeat what I posted earlier, we did make a quicker adjustment in the 2nd half vs. Nova. Compare 4 made 3s before  an additional one in the final seconds when it no longer mattered vs. the 9 easily made ones in the first half.

[mug644]

I share TAMU's fears.  I don't think we'll be as fortunate with other teams.  The word is out on MU and teams are doing to give up open 3s to protect the paint until we prove that we can make them.  While VU was shooting out of their mind that Hausen guard is a great shooter.  I think this is where Shaka's recruiting philosophy could use some tweaking.  MU really needs a guy they can count on to hit 3s even deep threes.  Instead we have a bunch of guys who are great defensively and can handle switching all 5 positions but we don't recruit anyone who is first and foremost a shooter.  I realize this means we might give up some defense if we are giving up quickness for shooting in one guy.  Having a guy like Hausen could save us when we're in a situation like we were against Butler.  We'd probably be more likely to get a guy like that out of the portal where they would have already proven they have solid deep shooting.  Until we do we will be in trouble if Kam and TKO and Jop have off nights.

I think this is what Scoop envisioned to be Jop's role, wasn't it? Not so good on D, but a strong shooter.

[Newsdreams]

One of the first things I noticed was that the spacing seemed much better.

One of the next things I noticed was that Villanova, for some bizarre unknown reason, was playing really aggressive defense away from the basket.

The combination of the two was a much needed and pleasant sight.

No idea what Neptune was thinking, I asked in the game thread if he had watched the tape?
There is a formula to beat Marquette and that ain't it coach Kyle.

Just another example of why I'm not sold on him as Novas HC. I like Shaheen and Kim much more to have longer term success at their gigs despite the smaller programs and more difficult recruiting.

Marquette won't always miss badly from distance, and when they don't you'll probably lose, but if you don't pack it in and dare MU to shoot, instead opening up passing and driving lanes to the hoop with will most definitely lose.

So, take your chances with the long ball until you pay.

Spacing was better because D chose to play.

[Newsdreams]

I'm still a little concerned about the offense. I was at the game yesterday and rewatched it today. Yesterday was a good reminder of what are team is capable of when the lane is clear. When we have space to operate, we will sashimi pretty much any team in the country.

My concern is, that I think a good chunk of our success yesterday was due to coaching malpractice by Neptune. Drop coverage has been our kryptonite all season. Wisconsin, Providence, Seton Hall, second half Butler all utilized it to great effect. Neptune used a lot of different looks against us but didn't use drop coverage until late in the game. As a result, the paint was wide open all game and we hit Nova with their worst 2P% defensive game in decades. Shaka even pointed it out during one of the inside the huddles saying that we didn't have to take threes because they were giving us the paint all day.

The good news is, when Neptune switched to drop coverage, the offense didn't stall. Stevie and Tyler both hit wide open threes and those generated some wiggle room leading to a classic TKO to Oso dunk.

I still believe the team is much better from three than they've shown so far. If that's true and those start falling, our offense will return to being unstoppable. Combine that with our consistently great defense (yesterday wasn't the best but Nova was uncharacteristically hot from three), and we have a legitimate contender.

Wizard does know ball

[Newsdreams]

Rowsey, Howard, and the Hauser that could shoot, come on back.

There is a player there that self proclaimed knowers of ball wouldn't approve. Plus I don't see JD there...