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* Stud of DePaul Game

Tyler Kolek

3 points, 1 rebound,
18 (!!!) assists, 2 steals,
26 minutes

2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek9
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.3
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

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Marquette
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Marquette vs

Providence

Date/Time: Feb 28, 2024, 6:00 pm
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Author Topic: Sad Trombone  (Read 5763 times)

NCMUFan

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #125 on: December 02, 2023, 09:47:11 PM »
Sobering game.  Wake up call.  Success last year does not guarantee success this year.

MuggsyB

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #126 on: December 02, 2023, 10:06:31 PM »
You cannot continue to criticize the refs.  MU was overly aggressive on defense today, ie Sean Jones. and Ross.
Rafferty made the comment that when the refs are calling it close and might have used the word ticky tacky, you have to back off little.  MU did not make that adjustment and continued to be aggressive.  Violence, violence, attack, attack.  It bit them in the butt. You can also rewatch the game and see Ben Gold getting beat on the dribble drive to basket and fouling the shooter three times because of his slow feet.

I'm not blaming the refs.  We were outplayed and didn't attack the rim. 

mugrad_89

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #127 on: December 02, 2023, 10:19:25 PM »
I'm not blaming the refs.  We were outplayed and didn't attack the rim.

Officiating was not great, but we also played like crap.

MuggsyB

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #128 on: December 02, 2023, 10:51:34 PM »
Officiating was not great, but we also played like crap.

No doubt.  The only good news is that we have a ranked opponent coming into Fiserv on Wednesday and a win will perhaps assuage some of our worries. 

HutchwasClutch

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #129 on: December 02, 2023, 11:05:41 PM »
Officiating was not great, but we also played like crap.

Badgers having two 2nd half fouls is an absolute joke.  It isn’t why we lost at all, but that is a sh!t job officiating. 

Herman Cain

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #130 on: December 02, 2023, 11:14:44 PM »
Badgers having two 2nd half fouls is an absolute joke.  It isn’t why we lost at all, but that is a sh!t job officiating.
When Mr High Steps Ref has our games it is very difficult to win
Winning is overrated. The only time it is really important is in surgery and war.
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MUeng

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #131 on: December 02, 2023, 11:40:14 PM »
Didn't get to watch the game but it never looked in doubt judging from the box score. Maui hangover is real. Texas is almost a must win if we want to claim back any elite status.

NCMUFan

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #132 on: December 03, 2023, 06:01:58 AM »
Will be fun to see how Marquette bounces back.
Rise to the challenge.

CTWarrior

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #133 on: December 03, 2023, 08:14:35 AM »
Had visitors and watched this morning.  I predicted we would lose this game in the preseason poll and I am not surprised.  I'm pretty sure I said the same thing last year.  Wisconsin is Shaka's kryptonite.  We are weak rebounders, they are strong rebounders.  We thrive on turnovers, they don't turn the ball over.  They clogged the middle and played Kolek as a scorer, always having someone on the situational hand of the penetrator, forcing him to pass or take a very tough shot and the only people they left open on the perimeter were our weak shooters.

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Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

tower912

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #134 on: December 03, 2023, 08:17:16 AM »
Shaka says.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_104WL-A_Co


Time to be a big boy. 

Just play harder...

I watched this again.    Shaka says what he thinks is wrong with the team pretty clearly.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Goose

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #135 on: December 03, 2023, 08:49:23 AM »
Bad loss in all a lot of ways. Really nothing positive about the game itself. The positive was having a great time with my youngest son. Spent most of the day with him and that was enjoyable. Other than that, no real silver linings, IMO.

5DollarPitcher

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #136 on: December 03, 2023, 09:38:32 AM »

No kidding they aren't built to bury you from deep. That's the whole point. Their philosophy is built around scoring in the lane AND from deep. Good defenses (like MSU last year and UW today) can take one of those things away. Marquette can't consistently make them pay for that.

From the Athletic.  Read the whole thing, but I quoted below.

https://theathletic.com/4052114/2023/01/03/marquette-shaka-smart-tyler-kolek/

"Smart hired Nevada Smith, a former Division III and G League coach known for playing fast and shooting a ton of 3s, as Texas’ director of program development. (The first team Smith coached in the G League shot 45.4 3s and just one mid-range attempt per game.) Smart also connected with Northwest Missouri State coach Ben McCollum, a name sent to him when he was looking to replace an assistant coach. McCollum had already won two Division II national titles — he’s since won two more — and his teams were scoring at historically efficient rates. Smart told McCollum he should remain a head coach, but he still wanted to learn from him."
Just to close the loop on this… From Steele’s post-mortem this morning (great piece):

————————————————
"You don't predetermine the number of threes you are going to take," Smart said. "I think we played a game recently where we only shot in the low teens.

"So it's really based on the way that you're guarded. We shot (29), I'd take about 20-something of those. I'd say a handful of those were forced that we really should have passed the ball.”
————————————————

Seems to me Shaka thinks we were baited into taking more threes than the offense is designed because of the way we were guarded. He would’ve passed out of a third of those threes?

Guess Sultan thinks he knows Shaka’s offense better than he does?

tower912

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #137 on: December 03, 2023, 09:40:47 AM »
Watch the presser.   Lots of good stuff there.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

rocket surgeon

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #138 on: December 03, 2023, 09:48:13 AM »
When Mr High Steps Ref has our games it is very difficult to win

  i don't remember seeing shaka as animated as he was in 2nd half going at it with anderson and that says A LOT!! 

    makes one wonder if andy went to the tim donaghy school of how to become rich n famous on the budget of a basketball ref
don't...don't don't don't don't

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #139 on: December 03, 2023, 09:55:43 AM »
Time to be a big boy. 

Just play harder...
Yes. Other than the first 8 minutes of the 2H, there was so little energy and passion. Very little pressure on the perimeter/ball handler. Strange they were so flat.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

ATWizJr

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #140 on: December 03, 2023, 09:58:25 AM »
Don’t you think Wisconsin had something to do w that?  That’s a top 25 team playing at home.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #141 on: December 03, 2023, 10:09:51 AM »
Just to close the loop on this… From Steele’s post-mortem this morning (great piece):

————————————————
"You don't predetermine the number of threes you are going to take," Smart said. "I think we played a game recently where we only shot in the low teens.

"So it's really based on the way that you're guarded. We shot (29), I'd take about 20-something of those. I'd say a handful of those were forced that we really should have passed the ball.”
————————————————

Seems to me Shaka thinks we were baited into taking more threes than the offense is designed because of the way we were guarded. He would’ve passed out of a third of those threes?

Guess Sultan thinks he knows Shaka’s offense better than he does?


WTF are you talking about?  I agree with everything Shaka is saying and that's the point.  If he thinks they only forced a handful, and was fine with 20+ of them, Marquette IMO doesn't have the shooters to shoot 20 a game. 

If threes are going to be an important part of this offense, and they most definitely are, then they are going to need more consistent shooters.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #142 on: December 03, 2023, 10:09:51 AM »
Don’t you think Wisconsin had something to do w that?  That’s a top 25 team playing at home.
Do I think Wisconsin had something to do with MU not playing with passion and energy? No. Do I think Wisconsin played with more passion and energy? Yes. Control what you can control.

"It's their Super Bowl" is cliche and dismissive, but if you watch Wahl both last year and this, he clearly wanted it more than any MU player wanted it.

I also thought he was great as Rolf in The Sound of Music.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2023, 10:13:20 AM by TSmith34, Inc. »
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

MUDPT

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #143 on: December 03, 2023, 10:19:01 AM »
FWIW, MU was 23/55 from the field and UW was 23/54. MU made two more 3s so outscored UW from the field by 2. Whether the officiating was good or bad, UW played more “aggressive”, etc., UW won because they made 13 more free throws than MU attempted.

79Warrior

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #144 on: December 03, 2023, 10:23:04 AM »
Badgers having two 2nd half fouls is an absolute joke.  It isn’t why we lost at all, but that is a sh!t job officiating.

We lost because we are small, could not rebound and were awful from 3. Refs excuse is a cop out. We were outplayed.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #145 on: December 03, 2023, 10:24:40 AM »
FWIW, MU was 23/55 from the field and UW was 23/54. MU made two more 3s so outscored UW from the field by 2. Whether the officiating was good or bad, UW played more “aggressive”, etc., UW won because they made 13 more free throws than MU attempted.


Of the four factors, Wisconsin won the free throw rate and the offensive rebound rate by a large margin.

Marquette actually had a better eFG. They were basically even from a turnover rate perspective.

Marquette's defense was much better in the second half because they stopped doubling the ball. They just didn't get enough flow on the offensive end.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

rocket surgeon

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #146 on: December 03, 2023, 11:32:58 AM »
Yes. Other than the first 8 minutes of the 2H, there was so little energy and passion. Very little pressure on the perimeter/ball handler. Strange they were so flat.

  yes, i completely agree with you(for a change) and i think the refs took them out of their game.  i hesitate to use that as an excuse because that's where shaka needs to refocus them, get a technical, put zaire, amadou, norman in to shake things up  this is where many times you see an unsung hero arrive
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Shooter McGavin

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Re: Sad Trombone
« Reply #147 on: December 04, 2023, 09:57:58 AM »
Just watched the game this morning. 

Obviously didn’t shoot well.  In “big” games like that, I think Kolek has to have the mindset that he is going to shoot if open.  He passed up about 5 open looks.  Would have had to get them off quickly but they were open nonetheless.  We will need him to do this to be a final four team.  An open TK three is better than an open Sean Jones three.  And I’m not giving up on Sean Jones at all.

Oso only had one jump hook and that was in the second half. He had plenty of drives to the middle of the lane but would not rise and fire. He needs to be more aggressive offensively for MU to play its best basketball. 

Kam obviously did his job.  We are going to miss him when he leaves.  Needs to keep it up to be a final four team.

Joplin had an off shooting night shooting threes but never put his head down and kept taking them.  Loved that he hit a three in the second half.  He just needs to understand that he cannot create his own shot.  All his shots must come off assists with open threes and good cuts to the basket only.  Not athletic enough to drive to the hoop, ride and fire.  The rising part just is not there.  I wouldn’t mind him taking open mid range shots from him dribbling around a defender flying at him at the three point line and then stopping and popping.  Maybe Shaka can make an exception for him only. Not worried about him going forward, just needs to stop driving in the lane.

Would like to see Ross bust out offensively more.  Foul trouble killed him.  But still waiting all year for it.

The other guys just have to keep doing what they are doing and get better over the course of the season. Hopefully the 3 point percentage goes up. 

Rebounding issues will be there all year but MUs strengths on defense and offense will mitigate that in most games.

I’m not concerned about the loss at Wisconsin.  I thought they would win but it was a wake up call and it probably came at the right time. 

Can’t wait for the Texas game.  Go MU!

 

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