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Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
66
Marquette
Scrimmage
Date/Time: Oct 4, 2025
TV: NA
Schedule for 2024-25
New Mexico
75

HowardsWorld

Kansas -4
O/U 156
Predicted Score 80-76

StillAWarrior

It's not every day (or even every season) when you have a chance to play against the No. 1 team. It's rarer still when you get that chance when you've got a team that can actually beat them. This is a special game. Let's go Warriors.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

Norm

Gonna be tough for MU to win tonight, especially after th energy they had to expend to get by UCLA. KU has the fresher legs which could help them in the 2nd half.

Goose

I loved when Shaka asked the team how of you were recruited by UCLA. I think that same motivation will work well tonight. These guys belong playing in these type of games and I like their chances a lot.

ChitownSpaceForRent

Quote from: Norm on November 21, 2023, 07:47:43 AM
Gonna be tough for MU to win tonight, especially after th energy they had to expend to get by UCLA. KU has the fresher legs which could help them in the 2nd half.

I mean, Kam, Stevie and Kolek to an extent should be relatively fresh

Dickthedribbler

I still have nightmares about 2003 FF. Kansas forward Nick Collison out muscles Robert Jackson or Scott Merritt for the rebound. Rifles a 40 foot outlet pass to Kirk Heinrich at half court, who proceeds to speed dribble to the basket for an uncontested layup.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

tower912

Kansas line?


There's no place like home.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

jficke13

when people post the line, what book or analytic service are you citing?

Is kenpom Kansas -4?

I ask because for non-gamblers beating the analytics lines is critical to how our computer ranking numbers move, so I'm always interested in what we need to do to "beat" kenpom/torvik.

I care somewhat less what we need to do to beat draftkings.

The Sultan

Quote from: tower912 on November 21, 2023, 09:04:50 AM
Kansas line?


There's no place like home.


I was thinking more "carry on my wayward son."
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

tower912

Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Shooter McGavin

Kansas is beatable.  MU needs to hit a higher clip of their open threes and continue to gang  rebound.  There is nothing so scary about Kansas that a team built like MU can't win.  Great opportunity ahead.  Looking forward to it.

MDMU04

Quote from: jficke13 on November 21, 2023, 09:32:07 AM
when people post the line, what book or analytic service are you citing?

Is kenpom Kansas -4?

I ask because for non-gamblers beating the analytics lines is critical to how our computer ranking numbers move, so I'm always interested in what we need to do to "beat" kenpom/torvik.

I care somewhat less what we need to do to beat draftkings.

KenPom has KU -3, with a total of 157. 

The books are generally within a point or two of the computer guys, most likely to offset where they think money will come in.  KU will likely be a big public team, so the books probably list the extra point to take advantage of the market.
"They call me eccentric. They used to call me nuts. I haven't changed." - Al McGuire

muwarrior69

Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 21, 2023, 10:06:13 AM
Kansas is beatable.  MU needs to hit a higher clip of their open threes and continue to gang  rebound.  There is nothing so scary about Kansas that a team built like MU can't win.  Great opportunity ahead.  Looking forward to it.

I'll be happy if they make their free throws. My blood pressure goes up every time they miss.

Uncle Rico

Make Dickinson move on defense and make him uncomfortable.  Volatile guy you can take out of the game mentally
"Well, we're all going to die."

Herman Cain

1. Make Open Looks
2. Make Free Throws
"It was a Great Day until it wasn't"
    ——Rory McIlroy on Final Round at Pinehurst

cheebs09


real chili 83


NCMUFan


Shooter McGavin

Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 21, 2023, 10:12:37 AM
I'll be happy if they make their free throws. My blood pressure goes up every time they miss.

I agree 69.  That was maddening.  Would have been a nice pressure release in the first half to have a couple front ends go down as well as to increase the lead in the second half. Kudos to the guys for a scrappy victory. 

I said it elsewhere but hopefully this is the Holy Cross game of 2003.  Or St. John's of last years Big East tournament.  Now that we  got one victory hopefully the flood gates open.

#UnleashSean

Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 21, 2023, 08:45:43 AM
I mean, Kam, Stevie and Kolek to an extent should be relatively fresh

Kolek played 33 minutes...

brewcity77

Quote from: Norm on November 21, 2023, 07:47:43 AM
Gonna be tough for MU to win tonight, especially after th energy they had to expend to get by UCLA. KU has the fresher legs which could help them in the 2nd half.

Do they really? Kansas has no bench and their big three (Dickinson, McCullar, Harris) played more minutes against Chaminade than Marquette's top-3 (Kolek, Oso, Kam) did.

avid1010

Quote from: jficke13 on November 21, 2023, 09:32:07 AM
when people post the line, what book or analytic service are you citing?

Is kenpom Kansas -4?

I ask because for non-gamblers beating the analytics lines is critical to how our computer ranking numbers move, so I'm always interested in what we need to do to "beat" kenpom/torvik.

I care somewhat less what we need to do to beat draftkings.
The books tried having different lines then KenPom...that didn't work so well for them ;D

wadesworld

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2023, 10:57:11 AM
Do they really? Kansas has no bench and their big three (Dickinson, McCullar, Harris) played more minutes against Chaminade than Marquette's top-3 (Kolek, Oso, Kam) did.

Our minutes were a bit different than theirs, though.  And they have an extra 3 hours of rest and recovery.

Goose

Tyler Kolek has spent his entire life dreaming about playing in a game like this and Shaka has an opportunity to accomplish something that very few thought was attainable. Last year I thought the team chemistry would be very difficult to replicate and any potential shortfall in that category has been replaced by experience and talent. This team is built for the long haul and I am feeling very good about their chances.

First team to 80 wins the game.


Jockey

Quote from: Norm on November 21, 2023, 07:47:43 AM
Gonna be tough for MU to win tonight, especially after th energy they had to expend to get by UCLA. KU has the fresher legs which could help them in the 2nd half.

These are 18-22 year old kids in the greatest shape of their lives.

#UnleashSean

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2023, 10:57:11 AM
Do they really? Kansas has no bench and their big three (Dickinson, McCullar, Harris) played more minutes against Chaminade than Marquette's top-3 (Kolek, Oso, Kam) did.

The fresh legs argument is really coming in early this year.

CountryRoads

MU is built to succeed in games like this. Last year in BET looked flat against St. John's only to come out and play 2 fantastic games in the following 48 hours. Hoping for the same here.

Markusquette

How is MU going to stop Dickinson let alone slow him down? Pretty much need foul trouble issues.

CAGASS24

Recall?  MU played Kansas 5 years ago to the day in the NIT Tipoff - they were # 2 at the time.  WE led by 9 at the half and proceeded not to score until under the 11 minute mark in the second half.  Crushing - tho we did bounce back with a nice OT win against Louisville in the consolation game.

brewcity77

Quote from: Markusquette on November 21, 2023, 11:15:17 AM
How is MU going to stop Dickinson let alone slow him down? Pretty much need foul trouble issues.

Torch him in pick and roll, like Kentucky did (and we're frankly better at). Use doubles with small defenders to force turnovers (again like Kentucky did).

Dickinson is great and will put up numbers, but he can be exploited. Just like we did at Purdue and Edey for 30 minutes last year.

DoctorV

Quote from: CAGASS24 on November 21, 2023, 11:16:06 AM
Recall?  MU played Kansas 5 years ago to the day in the NIT Tipoff - they were # 2 at the time.  WE led by 9 at the half and proceeded not to score until under the 11 minute mark in the second half.  Crushing - tho we did bounce back with a nice OT win against Louisville in the consolation game.

I was at that tourney, it was a rollercoaster. That 1H versus Kansas was great, the finish v Louisville was great.
That win starter the greatest stretch in Wojos tenure.
Being in Brooklyn and Manhattan was awesome.

I have a feeling that if tonight and tomorrow go as planned I'm going to regret not going to Maui for the rest of my life, but I'm really happy for those that could make it.

Be loud and make us proud!

DoctorV

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2023, 11:41:08 AM
Torch him in pick and roll, like Kentucky did (and we're frankly better at). Use doubles with small defenders to force turnovers (again like Kentucky did).

Dickinson is great and will put up numbers, but he can be exploited. Just like we did at Purdue and Edey for 30 minutes last year.

Yup. Pack it in with double teams and fast hands and emphasize deflections and turns all game.
When you get it, run like heck.
When you don't, crash the glass with all 5 guys.

Allow them the outside shot and if they beat you at your game you weren't going to win anyway.

JakeBarnes

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2023, 11:41:08 AM
Torch him in pick and roll, like Kentucky did (and we're frankly better at). Use doubles with small defenders to force turnovers (again like Kentucky did).

Dickinson is great and will put up numbers, but he can be exploited. Just like we did at Purdue and Edey for 30 minutes last year.

Yep. Illinois did the same in the scrimmage. At the outset of this tournament i thought UCLA was a worse matchup for us than Kansas. UCLA clogged the lane a lot early on and had the height to do it--just lost some discipline in the end. Kansas was quite susceptible to things we are good at--PnR and (usually) hitting open 3s like the looks they were allowing to Kentucky.

Maybe I am way off, but feel pretty good about this game.
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.

"We all carry within us our places of exile, our crimes and our ravages. But our task is not to unleash them on the world; it is to fight them in ourselves and in others." -Camus, The Rebel

StillAWarrior

Actual text exchange with my daughter who is returning from college for thanksgiving today:

Her: hey are you staying up for the marquette game tonight?
Me: I'm insulted that you'd ask me that.
Her: oh good i want to watch it!!
Me: Are you going to refrain from punching Grandma Thursday?
Her: ?
Me: I thought we were asking questions that implied that the other is a savage. You started it.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

94Warrior

Quote from: JakeBarnes on November 21, 2023, 11:49:28 AM
Yep. Illinois did the same in the scrimmage. At the outset of this tournament i thought UCLA was a worse matchup for us than Kansas. UCLA clogged the lane a lot early on and had the height to do it--just lost some discipline in the end. Kansas was quite susceptible to things we are good at--PnR and (usually) hitting open 3s like the looks they were allowing to Kentucky.

Maybe I am way off, but feel pretty good about this game.

I am sensing a Baylor-like Beatdown.  Kam, Stevie, Chase and to an extent Tyler can flush last night's game from their system - and respond with a vengeance. 
It's great when 4 of your top players aren't at their best, and you can still beat a pretty good UCLA team.  Let's Go!!!!!

TSmith34, Inc.

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2023, 10:57:11 AM
Do they really? Kansas has no bench and their big three (Dickinson, McCullar, Harris) played more minutes against Chaminade than Marquette's top-3 (Kolek, Oso, Kam) did.
That absolutely baffled me. Kansas is up 25 with <4 minutes to go and Self has the starters out there. Why?
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

MU82

Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on November 21, 2023, 01:37:03 PM
That absolutely baffled me. Kansas is up 25 with <4 minutes to go and Self has the starters out there. Why?

Maybe he didn't think they were particularly "hard" minutes, and he wanted to see/work on something specific that could help the team against a real opponent later on?

I don't know that's what he was thinking, but maybe.

As for tonight's game ...

I respect Kansas. Some very good players on this team (as usual), and obviously an outstanding program. But I don't think this Kansas team is any better than the UConn team we beat at MSG last March. One doesn't need blue-and-gold tinted glasses to see a path to victory.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

willie warrior

Quote from: Herman Cain on November 21, 2023, 10:16:49 AM
1. Make Open Looks
2. Make Free Throws
Somebody tell Oso about making FTs
I thought you were dead. Willie lives rent free in Reekers mind. Rick Pitino: "You can either complain or adapt."

MUbiz

Quote from: willie warrior on November 21, 2023, 01:53:27 PM
Somebody tell Oso about making FTs

The rest of the team as well. It will cost us eventually.

Uncle Rico

Quote from: willie warrior on November 21, 2023, 01:53:27 PM
Somebody tell Oso about making FTs

I doubt the coaching staff has told him that
"Well, we're all going to die."

JakeBarnes

Quote from: willie warrior on November 21, 2023, 01:53:27 PM
Somebody tell Oso about making FTs


Someone tell freethrows about making Oso.
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.

"We all carry within us our places of exile, our crimes and our ravages. But our task is not to unleash them on the world; it is to fight them in ourselves and in others." -Camus, The Rebel

MU82

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 21, 2023, 01:59:25 PM
I doubt the coaching staff has told him that

Maybe if Shaka got right in their faces and yelled at them - or better yet, choked them - they'd get the message and make their free throws.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

muwarrior69

Quote from: willie warrior on November 21, 2023, 01:53:27 PM
Somebody tell Oso about making FTs

Is it me, but he seems to miss early in the game. He seems to make the clutch FT near the end of the game. What gets me, Kam and TK excluded, is that our 3pt shooters struggle at the line.

tower912

I am going to watch more closely, but it is my impression so far this year he is locking his knees, nearly locking his elbows, and basically shooting with a flick of his wrist.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

PGsHeroes32

Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 21, 2023, 02:22:48 PM
Is it me, but he seems to miss early in the game. He seems to make the clutch FT near the end of the game. What gets me, Kam and TK excluded, is that our 3pt shooters struggle at the line.

Kam actually for his career has been a very ok free throw shooter

Jop is way better at the line.

Chase had a bad game last night but was good last year. Not a ton of sample on him.
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

cheebs09

Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 21, 2023, 02:22:48 PM
Is it me, but he seems to miss early in the game. He seems to make the clutch FT near the end of the game. What gets me, Kam and TK excluded, is that our 3pt shooters struggle at the line.

I agree. The more important the FT, usually the better he does.

Frenns Liquor Depot

Quote from: cheebs09 on November 21, 2023, 02:55:23 PM
I agree. The more important the FT, usually the better he does.

Well let's ensure JB is far far away before each Oso FT

Dickthedribbler

Quote from: cheebs09 on November 21, 2023, 02:55:23 PM
I agree. The more important the FT, usually the better he does.

All free throws matter.

JakeBarnes

Quote from: JakeBarnes on November 21, 2023, 11:49:28 AM
Yep. Illinois did the same in the scrimmage. At the outset of this tournament i thought UCLA was a worse matchup for us than Kansas. UCLA clogged the lane a lot early on and had the height to do it--just lost some discipline in the end. Kansas was quite susceptible to things we are good at--PnR and (usually) hitting open 3s like the looks they were allowing to Kentucky.

Maybe I am way off, but feel pretty good about this game.

I said I felt good. I did not feel THIS good.
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.

"We all carry within us our places of exile, our crimes and our ravages. But our task is not to unleash them on the world; it is to fight them in ourselves and in others." -Camus, The Rebel

brewcity77

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2023, 11:41:08 AM
Torch him in pick and roll, like Kentucky did (and we're frankly better at). Use doubles with small defenders to force turnovers (again like Kentucky did).

Dickinson is great and will put up numbers, but he can be exploited. Just like we did at Purdue and Edey for 30 minutes last year.
Killed them inside, turned him over left and right. Let's do the same to Edey tomorrow.

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