2023-2024 College Basketball Thread

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Like his solution or not (and I don't), Bilas has spoken against storming the court for quite some time - including a few weeks ago when Caitlin Clark got run into by a fan ... which obviously had nothing to do with Duke.

https://www.si.com/college/2024/01/27/jay-bilas-college-basketball-fans-shouldnt-be-allowed-storm-courts

Well thank you for that. Although his mass arrest solution wasn’t brought up until after the Duke mess.

You’re wasting your time, Mike. Sultan doesn’t believe in letting the facts interfere with his prejudices.

Grumpy ole Lenny with his usual contribution…

[MU82]

It's not a perfect comparison, but I kind of equate the court-storming thing similar to injuries suffered due to line drives into the stands at MLB games.

Injuries from flying baseballs were quite rare given the number of fans who attended games and the very few injuries those baseballs caused. But there were a few serious instances, including a death IIRC, and MLB mandated that nets be extended all the way to the foul poles. Plenty of people (including our resident uber-troll chicos) protested the decision, calling it unnecessary and saying it would take some away from the ballpark experience.

But the nets went up, and fairly quickly the objections went away, and now the nets are just there.

Few people get hurt in court-stormings, but what's it gonna take to get the stormings stopped? A great player suffering a season-ending injury? A fan getting trampled to death?

Whatever unfortunate incidents were to bring about the ban, it would be met with grumbles and objections at first ... and then the idea of the practice would just fade away.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So how do you ban court stormings? Its way easier to do with professional leagues - just take their season tickets away. And those closest to the action are usually in corporate seats or have a lot of money, and they aren't going to risk it.

Court stormings and football field stormings are primarily by the students. Are schools going to ban those who enter the court or the field? I just don't see that as realistic.

The efforts should concentrate on protecting the players and coaches.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It's not a perfect comparison, but I kind of equate the court-storming thing similar to injuries suffered due to line drives into the stands at MLB games.

Injuries from flying baseballs were quite rare given the number of fans who attended games and the very few injuries those baseballs caused. But there were a few serious instances, including a death IIRC, and MLB mandated that nets be extended all the way to the foul poles. Plenty of people (including our resident uber-troll chicos) protested the decision, calling it unnecessary and saying it would take some away from the ballpark experience.

But the nets went up, and fairly quickly the objections went away, and now the nets are just there.

Few people get hurt in court-stormings, but what's it gonna take to get the stormings stopped? A great player suffering a season-ending injury? A fan getting trampled to death?

Whatever unfortunate incidents were to bring about the ban, it would be met with grumbles and objections at first ... and then the idea of the practice would just fade away.

I understand what you're saying but there are wildly different levels of risk involved. I can give you a list of people who literally died because of baseballs in the stands. I'm not sure I can name anyone significantly injured during a court storming before Filipowski (and we don't know how serious his injury is yet). I'm sure injuries have happened before and the risk is there,  but I think it's a different level of risk

[Jay Bee]

So how do you ban court stormings?

Just like the border. When the court is entered, arrest and/or throw out. Maybe the Czar can help out

[swoopem]

I understand what you're saying but there are wildly different levels of risk involved. I can give you a list of people who literally died because of baseballs in the stands. I'm not sure I can name anyone significantly injured during a court storming before Filipowski (and we don't know how serious his injury is yet). I'm sure injuries have happened before and the risk is there,  but I think it's a different level of risk

He’s not even injured. Last night the bottom line on ESPN said he was sore and icing it. He’s fine

[StillAWarrior]

It's my understanding that if you run onto a field or court during a game you get a ticket. I'm not aware of many instances where someone has been injured in that situation (Monica Seles is the only one that comes to mind...but that wasn't just someone running on the court -- it was an intentional attack). If it's typical to give someone a ticket for entering the field/court of play in that situation, why is it so ridiculous to suggest ticketing people who run onto the court at the end of the game.  I'm not advocating for that position, but I don't think it's a ridiculous proposal.

[tower912]

For you old school, historian types, the now outdated term 'cagers' in reference to basketball players comes from a time when the game was played inside a virtual cage to protect the players from unruly crowds.

[SaveOD238]

Some ideas I've heard in the last few days:

-fines, tickets, suspensions, with the most extreme being...
-...If you storm, you get kicked out of school.  This would put a stop to a lot of it pretty quickly. Seems a bit extra though.
-Build in a 30 second waiting period after the game.  Make announcements before the end of the game and have another post-game countdown clock.  Let the other team off the court, then let the fans on.  This would help with the scary injuries but would take away some of the spontaneity and anticipation.

Or, just do what Kam Jones said.  If you don't want to get court stormed, don't lose.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It's my understanding that if you run onto a field or court during a game you get a ticket. I'm not aware of many instances where someone has been injured in that situation (Monica Seles is the only one that comes to mind...but that wasn't just someone running on the court -- it was an intentional attack). If it's typical to give someone a ticket for entering the field/court of play in that situation, why is it so ridiculous to suggest ticketing people who run onto the court at the end of the game.  I'm not advocating for that position, but I don't think it's a ridiculous proposal.

So when thousands of students rush the court, they should have a bunch of Police sitting there ready to hand out tickets?  What if they just run on the court and jump around a bit and exit? Are we going to treat those people the same way as those who harass or assault a player or coach?

Now deal with the parents who inevitably call...and the students who decide not to buy tickets the next year.

And how do you manage this?



Anyway, here is my solution FWIW.

1. Develop plans to protect the players, coaches and officials.
2. Ticket and arrest those who conduct violent offenses.
3. Stop promoting them. (The image above was from this game. CBS seems pretty fired up about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bscYWk_QRtg)

[MU82]

I sure don’t have a sure-fire solution. Obviously, you can’t ticket thousands of college students. Putting in some kind of countdown clock to delay storming sounds good … as long as the students obey it.

It’s an interesting topic for discussion.

[Uncle Rico]

Allow coaches to carry weapons designed to kill as many people as possible.

[Jay Bee]

Allow coaches to carry weapons designed to kill as many people as possible.

Once they cross the baseline, they really aren’t even people anymore. Sub-human, celebrating scum.

[lawdog77]

I sure don’t have a sure-fire solution. Obviously, you can’t ticket thousands of college students. Putting in some kind of countdown clock to delay storming sounds good … as long as the students obey it.

It’s an interesting topic for discussion.

Kind of defeats the whole "storming" process if there is a time delay. I say let them storm, and let the Covid microchip identify any bad behavior.

[Its DJOver]

This seems very much like one of those things that's a hot topic for a few weeks, then everybody forgets about it come Championship week, then nobody thinks about it at all until next winter.  By then Clark and Filipowski will be playing professionally and won't care, and Bilis will still have his "old man shouts at clouds" tag and nothing will change.

[muwarrior69]

Wow! How times have changed. I was at the '67 NFL Championship game when the Packers beat the Cowboys. I have Lambeau Field turf  growing my Dad's backyard here in Jersey.

[StillAWarrior]

So when thousands of students rush the court, they should have a bunch of Police sitting there ready to hand out tickets?  What if they just run on the court and jump around a bit and exit? Are we going to treat those people the same way as those who harass or assault a player or coach?

Now deal with the parents who inevitably call...and the students who decide not to buy tickets the next year.

And how do you manage this?



Anyway, here is my solution FWIW.

1. Develop plans to protect the players, coaches and officials.
2. Ticket and arrest those who conduct violent offenses.
3. Stop promoting them. (The image above was from this game. CBS seems pretty fired up about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bscYWk_QRtg)

I don't think it's a perfect solution...at all. But I also don't think it's ridiculous. If you run out onto the field and jump and dance around during the game, you get a ticket. The intent to injure someone is not the issue.  The same conduct after the game has no consequences. It's not unreasonable to suggest that there should be some consequences.

For the record, I think your suggestions are better than Bilas's. I did notice during the Purdue/Northwestern game earlier this year, pretty much all the Purdue players were already on their way to the locker room before the final buzzer. But that's not always possible.

Regarding No. 3 of your suggestions, there is a reason that the networks simply will not show people running onto the field/court during big sporting events. Leading off SportsCenter with last night's court storming certainly does nothing to address the problem. Bilas made that point as well.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I laugh at the expulsion suggestions that I've seen.

1. Students who are found responsible for violent assaults or sexual assaults often don't get expelled, most get suspensions. But we're going to expel students for court storming.

2. There is legal due process required before you can expel a student. They would have to go through some kind of process for literal thousands of students.  That would likely take years and cost hundreds of thousands in man hours, if not millions.

3. How many Marquette students stormed the court back in 2017? 3000? (Honestly don't know just guessing). Marquettes student population is around 11K. Youre going to expel over a quarter of your student population. That's millions in tuition, fees,  and future donations that youre lighting on fire.

[Dr. Blackheart]

For you old school, historian types, the now outdated term 'cagers' in reference to basketball players comes from a time when the game was played inside a virtual cage to protect the players from unruly crowds.

Wojo years

[Uncle Rico]

Once they cross the baseline, they really aren’t even people anymore. Sub-human, celebrating scum.

Agree

[Pakuni]

I don't think it's a perfect solution...at all. But I also don't think it's ridiculous. If you run out onto the field and jump and dance around during the game, you get a ticket.

Who issues these tickets? Will, say, the Milwaukee or Winston-Salem police departments assign a couple dozen cops to games just in case? Do you expect hundreds of students, immediately after rushing the court, to politely line up to receive their citations? Do you think students instead might attempt to evade a ticket by fleeing, creating an even more dangerous situation?

It's simply not a practical solution.

[tower912]

Wojo years

I was saving that for later emphasis.   But thanks for putting it up.   Always a laugh.

[Shooter McGavin]

I laugh at the expulsion suggestions that I've seen.

1. Students who are found responsible for violent assaults or sexual assaults often don't get expelled, most get suspensions. But we're going to expel students for court storming.

2. There is legal due process required before you can expel a student. They would have to go through some kind of process for literal thousands of students.  That would likely take years and cost hundreds of thousands in man hours, if not millions.

3. How many Marquette students stormed the court back in 2017? 3000? (Honestly don't know just guessing). Marquettes student population is around 11K. Youre going to expel over a quarter of your student population. That's millions in tuition, fees,  and future donations that youre lighting on fire.

Agreed TAMU.  That is a really dumb suggestion.

[MUBurrow]

Isn't this just a crowd control issue that any arena that can host CBB games should be equipped to handle?  If you levy gigantic fines on the schools, they will be forced to staff (on campus) or work with their host arenas (off campus) to make sure security staffs games in a way that prevents the crowd from trespassing on the court.  Sure there is a culture of celebrating court storming to overcome, but movable barricades in front of student sections and stationing arena personnel should do the trick shouldn't it? its not like these are bread riots, they're drunk and excited college kids positioned around - at most 35% of the court boundaries.

[Scoop Snoop]

Court stormings are not going to stop and there are no easy solutions to "managing" them. I think it is possible that if a coach of Shaka's stature pleads with the students during the season to allow time for the opponents, officials, people at the scorekeepers' table etc. to leave safely (about 30 seconds or so) when the home team pulls off a major upset, there is a chance that the enough of the crowd will hold back for a little while. That alone would be enough to lower the chances of injuries.

A "carrot/stick" approach would be that if the crowd waits just a little while, there will be a chance for to hear the players and coach speak to the crowd. If the crowd rushes immediately, the home team should go to their locker room and not come back out.

The trick is to work with super excited college students and get them to buy into this scheme. I have no illusions that it would be simple and easy.