2024 Coaching Carousel

[Jay Bee]

This is a really odd take - what am I missing?

What are you unable to understand?

[PointWarrior]

What are you unable to understand?

You are blaming his wife?

[rocket surgeon]

You are blaming his wife?

  if you recall, it is widely believed that the misses nixed the deal with shaka coming from VA common to MU.  don't know if we didn't have a Saks, but pretty sure we had a nordy rack eyn'a?

[brewcity77]

not sure if you meant this in a positive or negtive way-if you mean "quietly" because he didn't voice his concerns publicly for all to hear, then yes.

I meant it as a statement of events rather than judgment. Honestly not sure where I stand on this.

For years, ever since Keller v EA Sports and O'Bannon v NCAA lawsuits, it has to have been obvious to the people at the top of the college sports pyramid the direction this has all been going. The NCAA amateurism model was always going to lose.

There was a window for the public figures, like Roy Williams, Coach K, Jay Wright, and Bennett, to speak up. From about 2015 & the O'Bannon decision through 2021 when NCAA vs Alston was decided to allow NIL they could've been calling for revenue sharing, for salary caps, and all the other things Bennett is complaining about.

I understand being at the point of your career where you just want to call it a day rather than address the changes in your field. I understand feeling you've done enough and to let the next generation handle it. But the time to say something is passed, the time to do something is here, and just complaining about how things are changing when you stood by silently, directly benefitting from the system rather than working to create the change you seem to think is necessary from the inside just rubs me wrong.

I've always liked Bennett as a coach. I enjoyed watching his teams and feel that 2019 tournament was fantastic to watch. And if he's done and wants to retire, he's earned it and I don't blame him for the timing, that timing decision is his alone to make. But I don't like him complaining about things after the fact when he could've been advocating for change for the last decade and helped foster a positive shift to NIL & the transfer market rather than the Wild West we find the sport in.

His comments are at best unhelpful and at worst ignorant of how he himself benefitted on the back on unpaid labor.

[The Sultan]

And to be honest, the sports really isn't going to miss Bennett. Just like it won't miss Coach K and Roy Williams or college football won't miss Nick Saban. If they feel that they can't manage in the current landscape, then it probably is best that they retire and let someone else take the reigns. There will be no shortage of people who will.

[WhiteTrash]

And to be honest, the sports really isn't going to miss Bennett. Just like it won't miss Coach K and Roy Williams or college football won't miss Nick Saban. If they feel that they can't manage in the current landscape, then it probably is best that they retire and let someone else take the reigns. There will be no shortage of people who will.

I agree with this. Hand wringing and shots at head coaches don't make a whole lot of sense. Coaches are paid and tasked to win games not provide leadership for schools on the athletes. They don't have any meaningful say in the process, so why even loop them into the discussion.

Do you think if Coach K or Saban had threatened to quite if players did not get paid, that the NCAA members would care one iota?

Hell even the media anointed "power brokers" of college sports, the SEC and Big10 commissioners have to get permission to use the bathroom from the school presidents. (Maybe a bit over the top? )

[Uncle Rico]

I agree with this. Hand wringing and shots at head coaches don't make a whole lot of sense. Coaches are paid and tasked to win games not provide leadership for schools on the athletes. They don't have any meaningful say in the process, so why even loop them into the discussion.

Do you think if Coach K or Saban had threatened to quite if players did not get paid, that the NCAA members would care one iota?

Hell even the media anointed "power brokers" of college sports, the SEC and Big10 commissioners have to get permission to use the bathroom from the school presidents. (Maybe a bit over the top? )

If it wasn't for the money, I think college presidents would love never to have to deal with athletics

[WhiteTrash]

If it wasn't for the money, I think college presidents would love never to have to deal with athletics

I think that is mostly true. I think there is a fair amount (majority) of faculty that feel the same way.

[The Sultan]

If it wasn't for the money, I think college presidents would love never to have to deal with athletics

I think most college presidents really like athletics. It drives alumni and donor interest, and helps with student recruitment. And many of them really like sports too.

I'm not sure many like the current athletic environment at the D1 level however.

[MU82]

I meant it as a statement of events rather than judgment. Honestly not sure where I stand on this.

For years, ever since Keller v EA Sports and O'Bannon v NCAA lawsuits, it has to have been obvious to the people at the top of the college sports pyramid the direction this has all been going. The NCAA amateurism model was always going to lose.

There was a window for the public figures, like Roy Williams, Coach K, Jay Wright, and Bennett, to speak up. From about 2015 & the O'Bannon decision through 2021 when NCAA vs Alston was decided to allow NIL they could've been calling for revenue sharing, for salary caps, and all the other things Bennett is complaining about.

I understand being at the point of your career where you just want to call it a day rather than address the changes in your field. I understand feeling you've done enough and to let the next generation handle it. But the time to say something is passed, the time to do something is here, and just complaining about how things are changing when you stood by silently, directly benefitting from the system rather than working to create the change you seem to think is necessary from the inside just rubs me wrong.

I've always liked Bennett as a coach. I enjoyed watching his teams and feel that 2019 tournament was fantastic to watch. And if he's done and wants to retire, he's earned it and I don't blame him for the timing, that timing decision is his alone to make. But I don't like him complaining about things after the fact when he could've been advocating for change for the last decade and helped foster a positive shift to NIL & the transfer market rather than the Wild West we find the sport in.

His comments are at best unhelpful and at worst ignorant of how he himself benefitted on the back on unpaid labor.

Very good post. Agree with everything. It's easy to whine after the fact. He'd have been much more helpful if he had done something to make the transition to what obviously was going to happen when he had some power. Same with the other coaches you named, and others beyond those.

(Actually, I don't quite agree with everything you wrote. Though Bennett's teams played his system very well most of the time, I found that style to be change-the-channel inducing!)

[WhiteTrash]

Very good post. Agree with everything. It's easy to whine after the fact. He'd have been much more helpful if he had done something to make the transition to what obviously was going to happen when he had some power. Same with the other coaches you named, and others beyond those.

(Actually, I don't quite agree with everything you wrote. Though Bennett's teams played his system very well most of the time, I found that style to be change-the-channel inducing!)

What do expect the coaches could have or can do with any of this stuff? As I asked before, do you think if even Coach K threaten to resign if players were not paid or given NIL that the college presidents would change their positions?

Maybe some would find it to be a hart warming gesture and get warm and fuzzies about Coach K, but that is it.

I think assigning any blame to the coaches is like blaming captains in the Army about a decision to go to war.

[The Sultan]

What do expect the coaches could have or can do with any of this stuff? As I asked before, do you think if even Coach K threaten to resign if players were not paid or given NIL that the college presidents would change their positions?

Maybe some would find it to be a hart warming gesture and get warm and fuzzies about Coach K, but that is it.

I think assigning any blame to the coaches is like blaming captains in the Army about a decision to go to war.

Oh I disagree with that completely. If Coach K, Nick Saban or similar types got together and said "I really think the NCAA needs to figure out a way to more fairly compensate student athletes to reflect more fully what they bring to the game," and repeatedly stuck with that message, it would have gone a long way toward finding a better was to resolve this situation.

The average Army captain is just a guy. These guys are the face of college athletics and hold tremendous leverage.

[WhiteTrash]

Oh I disagree with that completely. If Coach K, Nick Saban or similar types got together and said "I really think the NCAA needs to figure out a way to more fairly compensate student athletes to reflect more fully what they bring to the game," and repeatedly stuck with that message, it would have gone a long way toward finding a better was to resolve this situation.

The average Army captain is just a guy. These guys are the face of college athletics and hold tremendous leverage.

"And to be honest, the sports really isn't going to miss Bennett. Just like it won't miss Coach K and Roy Williams or college football won't miss Nick Saban. "

[WhiteTrash]

Oh I disagree with that completely. If Coach K, Nick Saban or similar types got together and said "I really think the NCAA needs to figure out a way to more fairly compensate student athletes to reflect more fully what they bring to the game," and repeatedly stuck with that message, it would have gone a long way toward finding a better was to resolve this situation.

The average Army captain is just a guy. These guys are the face of college athletics and hold tremendous leverage.

Agree to disagree since there is no way to prove any of this. Personally, I don't see comments made by Coach K being on University of Illinois' or UCLA's president radar. But I could be wrong.

I think this snails pace progress to recognizing the professional status of college athletes is due in part to the fact that the presidents don't give it as much consideration as we and the sports media think they should.

[The Sultan]

"And to be honest, the sports really isn't going to miss Bennett. Just like it won't miss Coach K and Roy Williams or college football won't miss Nick Saban. "

Because other, high profile individuals will take their place.

[Lennys Tap]

If it wasn't for the money, I think college presidents would love never to have to deal with athletics

But as long as the money was what it was, it college presidents weren't about to give up control - no matter what Coach K, Saban or anyone else suggested - until they were forced to.

[The Sultan]

But as long as the money was what it was, it college presidents weren't about to give up control - no matter what Coach K, Saban or anyone else suggested - until they were forced to.

Maybe because I know a number of college presidents, but I don't really agree with this. I think if there would have been more thought leadership from the NCAA and athletic department personnel, that the presidents wouldn't have been a significant obstacle to change. Especially since the general public was MILES ahead of the NCAA on the acceptance of paying the players.

[Lennys Tap]

Maybe because I know a number of college presidents, but I don't really agree with this. I think if there would have been more thought leadership from the NCAA and athletic department personnel, that the presidents wouldn't have been a significant obstacle to change. Especially since the general public was MILES ahead of the NCAA on the acceptance of paying the players.

Perhaps you're right, you certainly have more experience with colleges presidents than I do. But from what I've seen, read and heard they seem very reluctant to cede power and control where $ is concerned.

[The Sultan]

Perhaps you're right, you certainly have more experience with colleges presidents than I do. But from what I've seen, read and heard they seem very reluctant to cede power and control where $ is concerned.

But that's because there was never an articulated vision by the NCAA about what an alternative version of athletics could look like. It was just digging in their heels on the status quo despite the courts and public opinion turning against them.

The NCAA is like a company. Yes its the Board (Presidents) that ultimately make decisions, but its the management that has to do the day-to-day execution.

[WhiteTrash]

But that's because there was never an articulated vision by the NCAA about what an alternative version of athletics could look like. It was just digging in their heels on the status quo despite the courts and public opinion turning against them.

The NCAA is like a company. Yes its the Board (Presidents) that ultimately make decisions, but its the management that has to do the day-to-day execution.

So do we actually know that the NCAA was not articulating the issues to the presidents? It is not unthinkable that the NCAA had raised concerns but the presidents chose to remain with the status quo.  Increasing athlete compensation is not a 'day-to-day' decision for the NCAA. Deciding where to hold the Frozen Four and turning a blind eye on Bill Self's actions are 'day-to-day', but not NIL.

[The Sultan]

So do we actually know that the NCAA was not articulating the issues to the presidents? It is not unthinkable that the NCAA had raised concerns but the presidents chose to remain with the status quo.  Increasing athlete compensation is not a 'day-to-day' decision for the NCAA. Deciding where to hold the Frozen Four and turning a blind eye on Bill Self's actions are 'day-to-day', but not NIL.

??? They were the defendent in the O'Bannon lawsuit. It was the most significant issue facing the organization for more than a decade. Of course the management of the organization should have done a better job articulating a vision for intercollegiate athletics that included player compensation.

Remember what the NCAA's initial response was when the state of California approved NIL payments to student-athletes? They were going to ban those schools from the NCAA tournaments. It was laughable.

[WhiteTrash]

??? They were the defendent in the O'Bannon lawsuit. It was the most significant issue facing the organization for more than a decade. Of course the management of the organization should have done a better job articulating a vision for intercollegiate athletics that included player compensation.

Remember what the NCAA's initial response was when the state of California approved NIL payments to student-athletes? They were going to ban those schools from the NCAA tournaments. It was laughable.

That was the point I was making. Maybe I was mistaken, but I thought you were advancing the idea that the NCAA was not advising the presidents of the issue. I think my point that the president were aware of what was going on and the presidents sat on their hands is supported by your post above.

If it is not in violation of any law and your boss tells you to do something, you do it. Right?

[The Sultan]

That was the point I was making. Maybe I was mistaken, but I thought you were advancing the idea that the NCAA was not advising the presidents of the issue. I think my point that the president were aware of what was going on and the presidents sat on their hands is supported by your post above.

If it is not in violation of any law and your boss tells you to do something, you do it. Right?

I mean sure. But if the NCAA is saying in response "we think we should stick to our guns and go to Congress for help," the Presidents are probably going to listen.

Remember "the Presidents" are hundreds of individuals who change daily. This isn't the primary thing they are concerned about. They rely on others, such as the NCAA, to guide them through this process as well.

[WhiteTrash]

I mean sure. But if the NCAA is saying in response "we think we should stick to our guns and go to Congress for help," the Presidents are probably going to listen.

Remember "the Presidents" are hundreds of individuals who change daily. This isn't the primary thing they are concerned about. They rely on others, such as the NCAA, to guide them through this process as well.

Okay, I think we are mostly aligned here but it seems equally likely that (a)the presidents ignored advice, as it was (b)the NCAA championing the status quo strategy and the presidents buying in. But I think we agree that at the end of the day the presidents are responsible for the decision.

Also, what would a motivation for the NCAA to stick with the status quo? I can see no advantage to the NCAA organization. NIL and pay would not impact the scope of their duties, right? It's like saying referees having a dog in the fight over the shot clock being 20 or 24 seconds. They don't care, they just enforce the rules.

Now the NCAA has a dog in the fight for the NCAA Tournament and I can see it as a major stakeholder, albeit with limited power.

[The Sultan]

Okay, I think we are mostly aligned here but it seems equally likely that (a)the presidents ignored advice, as it was (b)the NCAA championing the status quo strategy and the presidents buying in. But I think we agree that at the end of the day the presidents are responsible for the decision.

Also, what would a motivation for the NCAA to stick with the status quo? I can see no advantage to the NCAA organization. NIL and pay would not impact the scope of their duties, right? It's like saying referees having a dog in the fight over the shot clock being 20 or 24 seconds. They don't care, they just enforce the rules.

Now the NCAA has a dog in the fight for the NCAA Tournament and I can see it as a major stakeholder, albeit with limited power.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the presidents are blameless here. But the NCAA should have taken a lead here...and they just didn't.  But my point to Lennys was that, had the NCAA done so, I think the presidents could have been convinced.