I Promise School

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Relax, that was a joke.

They call it a "shtick" round here.

[NCMUFan]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HSve9P0DEaA

[Pakuni]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HSve9P0DEaA

Charlie Kirk, huh?

[MuggsyB]

Yes of course it's alarming. It shows that even with enormous resources devoted to a small population, it is incredibly difficult to have a significant impact on certain populations.

Being "intellectually dishonest" is not acknowledging the circumstances around the population the school serves.

Wrong.  I have tutored students in these areas and they're fully capable with the right tutelage. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Wrong.  I have tutored students in these areas and they're fully capable with the right tutelage. 

😂😂😂

[Pakuni]

Wrong.  I have tutored students in these areas and they're fully capable with the right tutelage.

Great.
Now, how do you propose providing "the right tutelage" to every student who needs it? How do you ID these students? Ensure they attend these tutoring sessions? Provide a location and resources? Find enough qualified tutors?
And do it all without spending additional funds?

[MuggsyB]

Great.
Now, how do you propose providing "the right tutelage" to every student who needs it? How do you ID these students? Ensure they attend these tutoring sessions? Provide a location and resources? Find enough qualified tutors?
And do it all without spending additional funds?

If a school with 240 total kids Pakumi cannot have a single 8th grader pass a state math exam in 3 years something is wrong with the math teacher.  These are obviously small classes. .  The math teacher there should be fired immediately.  If you or I or anyone on this site took that job there is no chance whatsoever ever single student would fail for three full years. 

[Pakuni]

If a school with 240 total kids Pakumi cannot have a single 8th grader pass a state math exam in 3 years something is wrong with the math teacher.  These are obviously small classes. .  The math teacher there should be fired immediately.  If you or I or anyone on this site took that job there is no chance whatsoever ever single student would fail for three full years.

This doesn't answer any of my questions.

And I'm quite sure neither of us would produce better results.

[MuggsyB]

This doesn't answer any of my questions.

And I'm quite sure neither of us would produce better results.

i am quite sure you're wrong. 

[tower912]

Send them your resume'.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yep. Only Muggsy holds the key to teaching math to underprivileged students.

[Pakuni]

i am quite sure you're wrong.

Why are you ducking my questions?
Should be easy for a guy who firmly believes he could take a classroom of at-risk kids who are years behind academically and get them proficient in a matter of months.

[MuggsyB]

Because they're irrelevant.  This is a school that costs 8 million a year to run.  Thet have somewhere in the vicinity of 100 faculty members and administrators for 240 kids and they cannot pass a math test.  Inexcusable and there's a reason why administrators throughout the state of Ohio are concerned. 

[Pakuni]

Because they're irrelevant.  This is a school that costs 8 million a year to run.  Thet have somewhere in the vicinity of 100 faculty members and administrators for 240 kids and they cannot pass a math test.  Inexcusable and there's a reason why administrators throughout the state of Ohio are concerned.

So, you have no solutions.

[MuggsyB]

So, you have no solutions.

The solutions include holding teachers accountable.  The solutions include using some of that 8 mill to teach these kids rudimentary reading and math skills in lieu of whatever the hell they are doing there.   Part of my  solution is to pay teachers in impoverished areas way more money for starters.   Lebron James touted these gifted and talented teachers when he opened the school in 2018.  Clearly they're a total failure.   Do you really think this is a success story?   Teach our kids to read, write, and basic math.  It actually isn't that fking complicated or hard..  Solve these three problems.  There is zero reason why everyone shouldn't be on the same page about this. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The solutions include holding teachers accountable.  The solutions include using some of that 8 mill to teach these kids rudimentary reading and math skills in lieu of whatever the hell they are doing there.   Part of my  solution is to pay teachers in impoverished areas way more money for starters.   Lebron James touted these gifted and talented teachers when he opened the school in 2018.  Clearly they're a total failure.   Do you really think this is a success story?   Teach our kids to read, write, and basic math.  It actually isn't that fking complicated or hard..  Solve these three problems.  There is zero reason why everyone shouldn't be on the same page about this. 

Teaching underprivileged kids isn’t hard?

[MuggsyB]

Teaching underprivileged kids isn’t hard?

In this particular situation with very small classes I think they should be doing a far better job.  From my experience tutoring it isn't that hard but I realize that's not exactly the same thing.  It wouldn't be particularly hard imo if the vast majority of our focus was on reading,/math/writing.  From my experience kids are overwhelmed because they get passed on in elementary school and get to high school reading at a 3rd grade level and not knowing basic math skills.  Pay teachers more money but require far more accountability. 

[Pakuni]

In this particular situation with very small classes I think they should be doing a far better job.  From my experience tutoring it isn't that hard but I realize that's not exactly the same thing.  It wouldn't be particularly hard imo if the vast majority of our focus was on reading,/math/writing.  From my experience kids are overwhelmed because they get passed on in elementary school and get to high school reading at a 3rd grade level and not knowing basic math skills.  Pay teachers more money but require far more accountability.

Do you understand how much you're contradicting yourself here?
On one hand, you admit these kids have been passed along for years, leading them to be at grade levels far beyond their actual academic abilities.
And yet when those same students fail to show proficiency for their grade level, you blame their current teachers and schools ... not the fact they arrived in that classroom already years behind.

Is it your impression that a teacher ought to be able to teach a struggling student many years of subject matter in a matter of months?

Don't you think a better metric here would be student progress, as opposed to a single test?

[MuggsyB]

Do you understand how much you're contradicting yourself here?
On one hand, you admit these kids have been passed along for years, leading them to be at grade levels far beyond their actual academic abilities.
And yet when those same students fail to show proficiency for their grade level, you blame their current teachers and schools ... not the fact they arrived in that classroom already years behind.

Is it your impression that a teacher ought to be able to teach a struggling student many years of subject matter in a matter of months?

Don't you think a better metric here would be student progress, as opposed to a single test?

Are you saying that you are progressing if you cannot pass a basic math or reading test?  We need to do a better job Pakumi.  I got a bit carried away suggesting it's super easy but we must approach this whole thing differently. From my minimal experience I believe that  despite these students being behind they are more than capable of learning these skills.  Your point is well taken though.  It has to start in grades K-3. 

[Jockey]

Are Muggsy takes getting sillier and sillier?

[Pakuni]

Are you saying that you are progressing if you cannot pass a basic math or reading test?  We need to do a better job Pakumi.  I got a bit carried away suggesting it's super easy but we must approach this whole thing differently. From my minimal experience I believe that  despite these students being behind they are more than capable of learning these skills.  Your point is well taken though.  It has to start in grades K-3.

No one has suggested that we don't need to do better or that these kids are incapable.
What I'm suggesting is that it's not easy to take a kid from sh*tty socioeconomic circumstances, who's years behind academically, and get him/her proficient in a school year. It's a yearslong process filled with incremental gains. A kid who struggles with second-grade level math isn't going to pass an eighth grade test nine months later because the teacher tried really hard.

And yes, of course a student can show progress despite failing a test.

[MU82]

North Carolina lawmakers recently fixed our education problem by not only giving public money to poor and middle-class families who choose to send their kids to private schools but also by giving public money to wealthy families who choose to do so.

Out of "fairness," of course.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Are you saying that you are progressing if you cannot pass a basic math or reading test?

If an 8th grader comes in with the math and reading skills of a 3rd grader and leaves with the math and reading skills of a 6th grader, yes that is tremendous progress but they likely would fail a standardized math or reading test.

Now I have no idea if that's what's happening at this school. Just showing that a student can progress and still fail a standardized test.

[NCMUFan]

How did he get to the 8th grade if he has 3rd grade skills?

[MuggsyB]

How did he get to the 8th grade if he has 3rd grade skills?

Good question.  This seems to happen frequently.