2024-25 NFL Thread

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Wrong.

The bears haven't had a coaching staff competent enough to scheme or develop talent in years

The Bears could have taken Mahomes instead of Trubisky or Stroud instead of Fields or acquired Lamar or Allen or anyone.

The individual player's talent is nearly irrelevant

Uh...what?

[WhiteTrash]

My prediction is that the Bears run it back next year with Fields, eberflus, and Getsy. because that's what the Bears do. That is what mediocre teams do.

It is also equally as possible that the Packers will trade for Rodgers.  - Fields & Moore have taken shots at Getsy and Eberflus said he is disappointed in the offense. At 'bear' minimum Getsy is gone and he may self-terminate.

[MU82]

Understand what Tepper is, but as a Panthers fan, was it a deserved firing or just Tepper being Tepper?


Does the success of Stroud going to a terrible team cloud our judgment on expectations for a rookie QB? Did the GM in Carolina do enough to help Young out?

I'm glad he got fired because the vast majority of his draft picks and FA signings failed, and he really effed up the Brian Burns situation.

But you make a good point - with the Panthers, you don't know how hamstrung he was. Fitterer's first two years, Rhule theoretically had the final say on any moves, and Fitterer's last year, the big decisions (head coach and QB) had Tepper's fingerprints all over them.

I for one will not fault Fitterer/Tepper for drafting Young over Stroud, because if I'm to be honest I'd have done the same. Young played his rookie season behind a terrible line and with WRs who couldn't get open. He might prove to be no good - and the decision to draft him instead of Stroud after trading so much to move up could haunt the franchise for a decade - but I want to give Young another couple of years, hopefully with better coaching and talent around him (though I'm not holding my breath).

[GB Warrior]

I'm glad he got fired because the vast majority of his draft picks and FA signings failed, and he really effed up the Brian Burns situation.

But you make a good point - with the Panthers, you don't know how hamstrung he was. Fitterer's first two years, Rhule theoretically had the final say on any moves, and Fitterer's last year, the big decisions (head coach and QB) had Tepper's fingerprints all over them.

I for one will not fault Fitterer/Tepper for drafting Young over Stroud, because if I'm to be honest I'd have done the same. Young played his rookie season behind a terrible line and with WRs who couldn't get open. He might prove to be no good - and the decision to draft him instead of Stroud after trading so much to move up could haunt the franchise for a decade - but I want to give Young another couple of years, hopefully with better coaching and talent around him (though I'm not holding my breath).

Trading a WR1 to draft your QB1 who has only thrown to high-end talent is certainly a choice.

Even I know it was the cost of doing business, but if you felt like you didn't have another year to spare and the Bears wouldn't take a 1st 3 years out, then the indictment is shared by both Fitterer and Tepper.

[jesmu84]

Uh...what?

The bears coaches stink.

Had the bears kept their pick from last draft and taken Stroud at #1, I predict they finish roughly the same this year with Stroud instead of Fields.

Because their coaches and strategy is terrible.

[MU82]

Trading a WR1 to draft your QB1 who has only thrown to high-end talent is certainly a choice.

Even I know it was the cost of doing business, but if you felt like you didn't have another year to spare and the Bears wouldn't take a 1st 3 years out, then the indictment is shared by both Fitterer and Tepper.

Totally agree - I would not have made that trade for the #1 pick. I'd have continued building talent, would have gotten more of a game-manager QB, probably would have kept last year's interim as HC (Steve Wilks) and seen what happened.

But once Tepper/Federer made the trade for the #1 pick, I can't argue with selecting Young because that's who I would have taken. That's all I was saying. You're right that they gave up far too much, including (and maybe especially) Moore.

I think they deluded themselves into thinking they actually had a pretty good team because they went 6-6 under Wilks and the O line run-blocked well for the scheme Wilks favored, so they thought they could plug in Young and actually improve. But then Tepper fired the coach who made it work and brought in a pass-happy coaching team, and, well ... 2-15!

[Hidden User]

Pennix would be the most Bearsy pick ever. Just veer from one extreme to the other to fix things. He is easily the most immobile QB being considered anywhere near the top of the draft. I really like him as a passer, but for a guy like that, you need OL who are pass protectors first and run blockers second - the opposite of what they now have.

My prediction is that the Bears run it back next year with Fields, eberflus, and Getsy. because that's what the Bears do. That is what mediocre teams do.

Maybe Poles will earn his money and take some risks. They are sorely needed. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

Just because he's a pocket passer doesn't mean he's immobile. He escapes pressure and steps up with the best of them. One of the best deep balls in college I've ever seen. Pair that with Moore and MH jr and I think you've got some fun.

What if they draft those two, pick up fields option and if it's time to move on you have Penix ready in the wings

[wadesworld]

I've been hearing we can't really evaluate the Bears QB because the coaching staff sucks for what feels like my entire lifetime.  Probably true because when these QBs move on to new teams they kill it.  Oh wait...

The idea that some Bears fans throw around that the Bears' outlook would be no different had they drafted Mahomes instead of Trubisky is absolutely hilarious.  Mahomes is an all time great.  Trubisky was a one year college starter for a okay program.  He has continued to stink as a quarterback with the Bills and Steelers.  The Bears would be awesome with Mahomes, just like any franchise in the NFL would be awesome with Mahomes.

Justin Fields isn't bad at quarterback because of the Bears coaching staff.  He's bad at quarterback because he's a running back.

[jesmu84]

I've been hearing we can't really evaluate the Bears QB because the coaching staff sucks for what feels like my entire lifetime.  Probably true because when these QBs move on to new teams they kill it.  Oh wait...

The idea that some Bears fans throw around that the Bears' outlook would be no different had they drafted Mahomes instead of Trubisky is absolutely hilarious.  Mahomes is an all time great.  Trubisky was a one year college starter for a okay program.  He has continued to stink as a quarterback with the Bills and Steelers.  The Bears would be awesome with Mahomes, just like any franchise in the NFL would be awesome with Mahomes.

Justin Fields isn't bad at quarterback because of the Bears coaching staff.  He's bad at quarterback because he's a running back.

Is the assertion here that every NFL QB that has failed is a result only of the individual QBs talent and has nothing to do with the coaching staff or team around him?

Have there been any instances of a QB that failed in one place and succeeded in another? Or vice versa?

[wadesworld]

Is the assertion here that every NFL QB that has failed is a result only of the individual QBs talent and has nothing to do with the coaching staff or team around him?

Have there been any instances of a QB that failed in one place and succeeded in another? Or vice versa?

Coaching can definitely help a player, but the idea that any QB that goes to the Bears is doomed is hilarious.  I'll take the talented QB with the bad coaching staff over Brandon Zappe or Mac Jones with Bill Belichick.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Is the assertion here that every NFL QB that has failed is a result only of the individual QBs talent and has nothing to do with the coaching staff or team around him?

Have there been any instances of a QB that failed in one place and succeeded in another? Or vice versa?

Sure there have been some instances. Probably the most famous is Steve Young.

But by and large, if quarterback busts have any improvement, its simply marginal.

[Pakuni]

Is the assertion here that every NFL QB that has failed is a result only of the individual QBs talent and has nothing to do with the coaching staff or team around him?

Have there been any instances of a QB that failed in one place and succeeded in another? Or vice versa?

I think there are plenty of QBs whose development has been hampered by bad coaching - or too many coaching changes - but I don't think there are many/any examples in which that's the only or primary thing that prevented success.
Most highly drafted QBs get multiple chances in the league after washing out with their first team. See: Trubisky, Wentz, Darnold, Rosen, Jameis, Bortles, EJ Manuel, etc. The ones who don't get second chances tend to be guys with obvious character/ethic concerns, i.e. Manziel, JaMarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf.
It's seems super rare that these guys are subpar at their first or second stop and then get good with better coaching. Sultan mentioned Young, but he was really good in the USFL before struggling in Tampa - where, it should be noted, he only played 19 games.
I guess you could throw Tannehill in the conversation ... he never developed into a guy you'd take with the #8 overall pick, but he had some better than average seasons in Tennessee.

[jesmu84]

Good responses.

You'll never convince me the bears have had good offensive coaching in the past 25 years.

They could also have drafted/acquired terrible QBs during that stretch.

[Jockey]

I think there are 4 main things you look for. In order:
1. Reading defenses.
2. Accuracy.
3. Pocket presence.
4. Mobility.

I think the 1st two are most critical - Trubisky & Fields are great examples. But most 'busts' have issues with 2 of the first 3.

Love could stand to improve his accuracy, but the other 3 look good.

[Jockey]

Good responses.

You'll never convince me the bears have had good offensive coaching in the past 25 years.

They could also have drafted/acquired terrible QBs during that stretch.

Maybe a combination?

[Hidden User]

I've been hearing we can't really evaluate the Bears QB because the coaching staff sucks for what feels like my entire lifetime.  Probably true because when these QBs move on to new teams they kill it.  Oh wait...

The idea that some Bears fans throw around that the Bears' outlook would be no different had they drafted Mahomes instead of Trubisky is absolutely hilarious.  Mahomes is an all time great.  Trubisky was a one year college starter for a okay program.  He has continued to stink as a quarterback with the Bills and Steelers.  The Bears would be awesome with Mahomes, just like any franchise in the NFL would be awesome with Mahomes.

Justin Fields isn't bad at quarterback because of the Bears coaching staff.  He's bad at quarterback because he's a running back.

Ignoring the annoying running back shtick, I will never forget this.

"While Trubisky didn't ooze charisma like Mahomes and Watson, Pace deeply admired his humility. He valued Trubisky's family support system and dedicated approach."

[Uncle Rico]

Ignoring the annoying running back shtick, I will never forget this.

"While Trubisky didn't ooze charisma like Mahomes and Watson, Pace deeply admired his humility. He valued Trubisky's family support system and dedicated approach."

Was Pace a dentist?

[Jockey]

Ignoring the annoying running back shtick, I will never forget this.

"While Trubisky didn't ooze charisma like Mahomes and Watson, Pace deeply admired his humility. He valued Trubisky's family support system and dedicated approach."

Rich Campbell had the same qualities. Very religious. But sucked at football.

A bigger bust than Mandarich.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Rich Campbell had the same qualities. Very religious. But sucked at football.

A bigger bust than Mandarich.

The number six pick in the draft and never started a game.

Part of this is because Lynn Dickey finally stayed healthy and was pretty darn good.

[WhiteTrash]

There is a idea that the best teams draft based upon talent not need. If you accept that to be true, then even if Fields is a good QB but through a deft trade you get the #1 pick you owe it to your team to take a great talent to replace the good talent.

The importance of the QB is reflected in the high draft position and later the huge cap allocation. Trying to upgrade the QB position with a #1 pick is not terribly unique or devoid of logic.

If the Bears don't think highly of this years crop, then keep Fields. We will all know in 1 year if they are correct, and so will Poles' real estate agent. 

[Herman Cain]

If Michigan wins tonight, Harbaugh to Bears becomes a possibility. Would be interesting to see what Harbaugh would do with Fields and Bears draft choices.

[tower912]

The scenario is the same if Washington wins.

[Uncle Rico]

If Michigan wins tonight, Harbaugh to Bears becomes a possibility. Would be interesting to see what Harbaugh would do with Fields and Bears draft choices.

He'd trade Fields because he's terrible

[muwarrior69]

There is a idea that the best teams draft based upon talent not need. If you accept that to be true, then even if Fields is a good QB but through a deft trade you get the #1 pick you owe it to your team to take a great talent to replace the good talent.

The importance of the QB is reflected in the high draft position and later the huge cap allocation. Trying to upgrade the QB position with a #1 pick is not terribly unique or devoid of logic.

If the Bears don't think highly of this years crop, then keep Fields. We will all know in 1 year if they are correct, and so will Poles' real estate agent. 

I don't care how good a QB is. If the OL stinks so will the QB.

[jficke13]

Is the assertion here that every NFL QB that has failed is a result only of the individual QBs talent and has nothing to do with the coaching staff or team around him?

Have there been any instances of a QB that failed in one place and succeeded in another? Or vice versa?

Alex Smith