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Author Topic: 2024 NFL Offseason and Draft Thread  (Read 61498 times)

Jockey

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1600 on: November 28, 2023, 03:09:20 PM »
Running and screen passes called because that's all Fields can do or that's what Getsy thinks is a good plan? Those things aren't mutually exclusive either.

The OL is decent/good now because they're finally healthy - preseason/beginning of the year they were not.

The RB room is solid and TE is fine.

WR are, at best, average. Look at stats like separation and they aren't good.

Watching breakdown like JT O'Sullivan and you see Fields has flashes of awesome and also serious deficiencies. But he also notes significant issues with the offense as a whole.

Very fair assessment.

wadesworld

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1601 on: November 28, 2023, 03:09:40 PM »
I just hope he keeps flashing incredible talent twice a years and Bears fans can write it off as bad coaching/an inept organization and the Bears can just keep him as their QB.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

Uncle Rico

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1602 on: November 28, 2023, 03:15:55 PM »
Luke Getsy is a heckuva a OC, aina?
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

WhiteTrash

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1603 on: November 28, 2023, 03:23:35 PM »
Landing a franchise QB is so much more important than landing a great receiver, that you have to take the risk.
At this point, the chance that Fields becomes an above average QB are much smaller than QB at #1 becomes great. No guaranty either happens but the odds are better with a QB at #1.  Staying with Fields would be based upon 'gut feeling' and/or play in practices that none of us has seen.  (Getsy and Eberflus must hate what they see in practice since they don't let him throw down field)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2023, 03:29:08 PM by WhiteTrash »

Silkk the Shaka

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1604 on: November 28, 2023, 03:31:18 PM »
At this point, the chance that Fields becomes an above average QB are much smaller than QB at #1 becomes great. No guaranty either happens but the odds are better with a QB at #1.  Staying with Fields would be based upon 'gut feeling' and/or play in practices that none of us has seen.  (Getsy and Eberflus must hate what they see in practice since they don't let him throw down field)

which is kind of odd, he threw a dart to DJ to end that game last night

jesmu84

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1605 on: November 28, 2023, 03:31:49 PM »
I just hope he keeps flashing incredible talent twice a years and Bears fans can write it off as bad coaching/an inept organization and the Bears can just keep him as their QB.

There's gotta be something behind an organization who cannot develop a single decent QB in the last 30+ years

WhiteTrash

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1606 on: November 28, 2023, 03:38:14 PM »
which is kind of odd, he threw a dart to DJ to end that game last night
Right? Hot Take: Maybe the coaches are not very good at their jobs?  ;)

WhiteTrash

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1607 on: November 28, 2023, 03:39:42 PM »
There's gotta be something behind an organization who cannot develop a single decent QB in the last 30+ years
A vast right wing conspiracy?

Pakuni

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1608 on: November 28, 2023, 03:42:32 PM »
Intended Air Yards/Attempt:

Fields = 7.1
Mahomes = 6.8
Goff = 6.7
Russ = 6.7
Burrow = 6.3

jesmu84

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1609 on: November 28, 2023, 03:43:56 PM »
Right? Hot Take: Maybe the coaches are not very good at their jobs?  ;)

Why not both?

Fields missed a wide open Mooney downfield in the first half

WhiteTrash

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1610 on: November 28, 2023, 03:57:05 PM »
Intended Air Yards/Attempt:

Fields = 7.1
Mahomes = 6.8
Goff = 6.7
Russ = 6.7
Burrow = 6.3
I honestly don't know what I'm looking at.

RJax55

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1611 on: November 28, 2023, 04:02:25 PM »
which is kind of odd, he threw a dart to DJ to end that game last night

The issue is Fields continues to hold the ball way too long and take too many sacks/hits. The screens and quick throws are a way to get the ball out of his hands. Especially against Minnesota, as no team is blitzing more.

Honestly, I get the game plan. Do I wish Getsy had more creativity with it, without question. But as noted earlier, he is an average OC at best.

I think developing a game plan for Fields is not that easy. He's a QB that doesn't see the field very well and struggles to make anticipatory throws. The holding the ball is a killer. Hard to win if your QB is taking 4 to 5 sacks a game.

Pakuni

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1612 on: November 28, 2023, 04:07:46 PM »
I honestly don't know what I'm looking at.

The average distance the ball travels in the air from the line of scrimmage per attempt.
 

WhiteTrash

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1613 on: November 28, 2023, 04:40:16 PM »
The average distance the ball travels in the air from the line of scrimmage per attempt.
Interesting.

I would not have guessed that Fields leads the NFL in average yards per attempt. It just feels like Fields/Bears throws way more screens than the average.

Maybe I should shut up and Troy Aikman should stop laughing at the Bears. This takes the wind out of the Justin is not allowed to throw down field critics and torpedoes the 'Fields could be better if allowed to' argument.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2023, 04:58:50 PM by WhiteTrash »

Pakuni

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1614 on: November 28, 2023, 04:45:28 PM »
Interesting.

I would not have guessed that Fields leads the NFL in average yards per attempt. It just feels like Fields/Bears throws way more screens than the average.

Maybe I should shut up and Troy Aikman should stop laughing at the Bears. This takes the wind out of the Justin in not allowed to throw down field critics and torpedoes the 'Fields could be better if allowed to' argument.

Oh, Fields definitely doesn't lead the league. He's something like 25th. But he's still ahead of those guys.
I think it just belies the notion that the Bears offense is extraordinarily screen heavy, or that the playcalling is keeping Fields from throwing downfield.

Some other notables:
Watson = 9.2
Stroud = 9.1
Love = 8.9
Hurts = 8.6
Prescott = 8.3
Allen = 8.2
Purdy = 8.1
Lamar = 8.0
Herbert = 7.7
Tua = 7.4
Lawrence = 7.3

JWags85

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1615 on: November 28, 2023, 05:39:37 PM »
That's fair.

I keep going back and forth on Williams. I'm gonna be real interested in reading about where the big shots have him rated once we get into the offseason.

It's impossible not to love Harrison. It's been a long time since a receiver with his combination of size, speed and skill has been available.

Best WR prospect since Calvin Johnson.  And beyond the physical tools, he seems like a mature dude and handled himself really well this weekend with the press and has all season.

Stark contrast to someone like Williams who is a wildcard personality/maturity wise.

Pakuni

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1616 on: November 28, 2023, 06:21:25 PM »
Best WR prospect since Calvin Johnson.  And beyond the physical tools, he seems like a mature dude and handled himself really well this weekend with the press and has all season.

Stark contrast to someone like Williams who is a wildcard personality/maturity wise.

Curious as to why you say that about Williams.
He's never been in trouble, never complained about the pressure and expectations of carrying talent-deficient teams and continued to play this year when he had nothing to gain from it.
I know what some of the criticisms are, and I think they're BS. I think a lot of the so-called maturity issues surrounding Williams would be hailed as the signs of a feisty competitor if they were exhibited by others.
But I don't assume that's what you mean here.

I don't think anyone should care even a little about this, but I do wonder what the reaction would be if Williams showed up to play in an Apple watch and Louis Vuitton cleats, or proudly wore a nickname like "Maserati Marv" (and to be fair, Harrison didn't coin that, but he has embraced it).
None of those things reflect poorly on Harrison, IMO, But I think Williams would get shredded over it.


JWags85

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1617 on: November 28, 2023, 09:47:05 PM »
Curious as to why you say that about Williams.
He's never been in trouble, never complained about the pressure and expectations of carrying talent-deficient teams and continued to play this year when he had nothing to gain from it.
I know what some of the criticisms are, and I think they're BS. I think a lot of the so-called maturity issues surrounding Williams would be hailed as the signs of a feisty competitor if they were exhibited by others.
But I don't assume that's what you mean here.

I’ve never gotten good vibes from Williams.  And it’s not “fiery competitor” stuff at all.  Like maybe you call the paint nails that, but that doesn’t bother me. 

He’s HORRIBLE with press.  Sullen and sulky when they lose, skipping the UCLA presser was childish (see the difference with Harrison on Saturday), he came off terribly in the GQ interview.  I think part of that probably comes from his dad, so it may not entirely his fault, but still.

I have a couple close friends that went to USC for undergrad or business school.  I’ve been to at least one USC game a season since 2013 and follow them pretty closely so it’s not like I’m some Trojan/Williams hater and I’ve enjoyed watching him/been wowed by him plenty of times.  And I have ZERO issue with cocky/arrogant players, I love swagger.

I just don’t see him as a guy who will handle being on a mediocre/bad team (for the first part of his career at least) very well.  Could very well be wrong and he may very well show great in the pre draft process

Pakuni

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1618 on: November 29, 2023, 11:17:49 AM »
I’ve never gotten good vibes from Williams.  And it’s not “fiery competitor” stuff at all.  Like maybe you call the paint nails that, but that doesn’t bother me. 

He’s HORRIBLE with press.  Sullen and sulky when they lose, skipping the UCLA presser was childish (see the difference with Harrison on Saturday), he came off terribly in the GQ interview.  I think part of that probably comes from his dad, so it may not entirely his fault, but still.

I have a couple close friends that went to USC for undergrad or business school.  I’ve been to at least one USC game a season since 2013 and follow them pretty closely so it’s not like I’m some Trojan/Williams hater and I’ve enjoyed watching him/been wowed by him plenty of times.  And I have ZERO issue with cocky/arrogant players, I love swagger.

I just don’t see him as a guy who will handle being on a mediocre/bad team (for the first part of his career at least) very well.  Could very well be wrong and he may very well show great in the pre draft process

That's fair. I just don't see any of these issues being detrimental to his potential success in the NFL and think a lot of the criticism thrown his way (the fingernails, sullen/crying after a loss) would be spun as a positive for other players.
As an NFL front-office, I'd be far more worried about reining in Williams' bad on-field habits than any of his behavior off the field.

MU82

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1619 on: November 29, 2023, 11:23:32 AM »
An article in The Athletic quoted sources close to Greg Olsen - which obviously was Olsen himself - saying Olsen would be interested in coaching the Panthers.

If he'd be as tough on Carolina players as he was on the 8-year-old baseball players he coached in the couple games of his I umpired, a bunch of Panthers would quit the team.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Uncle Rico

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1620 on: November 29, 2023, 11:24:46 AM »
That's fair. I just don't see any of these issues being detrimental to his potential success in the NFL and think a lot of the criticism thrown his way (the fingernails, sullen/crying after a loss) would be spun as a positive for other players.
As an NFL front-office, I'd be far more worried about reining in Williams' bad on-field habits than any of his behavior off the field.

Like any QB, a lot of his potential success will depend on who drafts him and who his coaches are.  Looking at the current draft order, I’d be terrified if I were any of the QB prospects.  Chicago, Arizona and New England.

Ideally, the Giants would be an ideal spot to play for Brian Daboll, imo. 

New England would be fine if they clean house and hire a modern offensive mind.

Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

WhiteTrash

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1621 on: November 29, 2023, 11:25:06 AM »
I just don’t see him as a guy who will handle being on a mediocre/bad team (for the first part of his career at least) very well.  Could very well be wrong and he may very well show great in the pre draft process
If this is true, he is going to flame out no matter what team drafts him because he isn't going to the Cowboys, Ravens, Eagles, Chiefs, etc.

WhiteTrash

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1622 on: November 29, 2023, 11:29:44 AM »
Like any QB, a lot of his potential success will depend on who drafts him and who his coaches are.  Looking at the current draft order, I’d be terrified if I were any of the QB prospects.  Chicago, Arizona and New England.

Ideally, the Giants would be an ideal spot to play for Brian Daboll, imo. 

New England would be fine if they clean house and hire a modern offensive mind.
I agree with the premise that the coach, where ever he goes, is very important. But the specific teams you named will all have new staffs next year (maybe not NE), so it is too early to name specific teams that are not a good fit.

Jockey

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1623 on: November 29, 2023, 12:35:17 PM »
An article in The Athletic quoted sources close to Greg Olsen - which obviously was Olsen himself - saying Olsen would be interested in coaching the Panthers.

If he'd be as tough on Carolina players as he was on the 8-year-old baseball players he coached in the couple games of his I umpired, a bunch of Panthers would quit the team.

$$$$$

As the #1 analyst, he is said to make around $10 million a year. If Brady goes to the booth next year as everyone suspects, he will be the #1 guy. Olsen would drop down to around $5 mil as the #2 guy.

He will be set for life for a year or two of work. Tepper will sign him to a long term contract and fire him after a year or two.

To be blunt - Teper is a worse owner than the McCaskey's have been.

JWags85

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Re: 2023-24 NFL Thread
« Reply #1624 on: November 29, 2023, 12:42:16 PM »
That's fair. I just don't see any of these issues being detrimental to his potential success in the NFL and think a lot of the criticism thrown his way (the fingernails, sullen/crying after a loss) would be spun as a positive for other players.
As an NFL front-office, I'd be far more worried about reining in Williams' bad on-field habits than any of his behavior off the field.

I think it goes hand in hand with my concerns.  I'm not gonna speculate that he's "not coachable" or something flashy like that, but I feel he's got some arrogance and stubbornness, that playing for Riley's trainwreck the last 2 years certainly hasn't helped, that will make those habits hard to erase.

If this is true, he is going to flame out no matter what team drafts him because he isn't going to the Cowboys, Ravens, Eagles, Chiefs, etc.

Right, hence some of my trepidation with him as a prospect.