#mubb going woke, or are MARQ editors just stupid blokes?

[Aughnanure]

I'm disappointed we only sing the national anthem once and would prefer we sing it 5 times or more before every sporting event at all levels. People who prefer 0 times=godless gay commies, 1-2 times only=ungrateful selfish millennials, 3-4 times only=wrong but I'd still drink beer with you.

This gets it. Most are just pointing out that it’s a bit strange we play the national anthem and perform overt pro-military stunts before games, and the response is to call literally everyone communists who are not right-wing and accuse us of hating the military.

Wasn’t it a few years ago some NBA team (Dallas or Miami maybe?) stopped doing it for a few weeks and no one cared until someone mentioned it on Twitter and it blew up and they had to go back to it.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You’re certainly right about many vets becoming disillusioned when they return home. I had many friends who fought in Viet Nam and the way they were characterized and treated by many of those  who opposed the war was disgusting. Talk about a “broad brush” - they came home with a whole lot of people calling them murderers.

Not “cringing” when you hear the National Anthem doesn’t mean one thinks the US is perfect. Respecting what our flag stands for doesn’t equate to agreeing with every decision our politicians make.

You take issue with the way the government treats vets after their service. Good for you. Continue to advocate for more and better services for them. But I don’t think cringing during the National Anthem or disrespecting the flag will help much.

I think Rico's larger point is that we substitute performative measures for actual ones that make differences. For instance, loving the troops because you stand up and cheer at a baseball game versus advocating for full physical, mental and emotional support of our veterans.

Performative measures are fine...as long as we are doing the hard work that comes with it.  But we oftentimes don't.

[onepost]

Then how about we treat them with more than lip service at an unimportant sporting event?  Fix the VA, take care of the wounded warriors beyond flashing them on a Jumbotron for a few cheap pops?

We talk an awful lot about patriotism but when we have an opportunity to take care of our veterans, it turns into a pissing match about unimportant stuff like national anthems and respecting the flag. 

As someone that comes from a military family, I’ve seen first hand how patriots are treated.  They should be more than props and forgotten when the mission is done.

BINGO

As a country, we treat our veterans horribly relative to all they've done for us.  Horribly.
As was stated, even "libtard snowflake cuck" Jon Stewart knows this and does more for this cause than any other celebrity (hell, politician) that I can tell.

I enjoy the anthem before big games (the one in Colorado last Stanley Cup Final was incredible, for example), but the anthem is unquestionably paid patriotism and it only became a lightning rod when Kaepernick kneeled (after consultation with a former vet) to bring awareness to police brutality.
Of course, because everything is a culture war these days we all know what came of that.  And like TAMU stated, if you mention this or hint at the anthem as, at times, a performative drop in the bucket compared to what soldiers and vets ACTUALLY DESERVE, you're labeled as some America-hating commie.

But we all saw the actual snowflake pearl clutching that kicked off this whole crapshow so who's even surprised anymore.

[Pakuni]

Compulsory patriotism at professional sporting events doesn't come cheap.

Arizona Senators John McCain and Jeff Flake have released a report following an investigation into Department of Defense spending for so-called "paid patriotism" efforts at professional sporting events, and found that the Pentagon paid $6.8 million in taxpayer money to various sports franchises over the last four years. McCain and Flake investigated the spending after learning in June that the New Jersey Army National Guard paid the New York Jets $115,000 to honor soldiers at games. The vast majority of the DOD money went to NFL teams, but the report found that teams in all the major professional sports, including the NBA, MLB, MLS, and NHL, had contracts with various branches of the armed services for these JumboTron-ed displays of patriotism.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/nzx95m/us-citizens-paid-68-million-to-pro-sports-teams-for-military-ads

[Skatastrophy]

I'm a communist and I'm finally ready to admit it.

You guys are  spot on. One thing that us communists are well known for is not putting the flag everywhere and singing the national anthem all the time.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I enjoy the anthem before big games (the one in Colorado last Stanley Cup Final was incredible, for example), but the anthem is unquestionably paid patriotism and it only became a lightning rod when Kaepernick kneeled (after consultation with a former vet) to bring awareness to police brutality.

Of course, because everything is a culture war these days we all know what came of that. 

This is why the right wing is correctly focusing on Mr. Potato Head, the M&Ms, Mickey Mouse, and black Little Mermaids, 'cause they are all a bunch of godless commies that don't stand for the anthem, and that's what's important in 'Murica.

[Lennys Tap]

I think Rico's larger point is that we substitute performative measures for actual ones that make differences. For instance, loving the troops because you stand up and cheer at a baseball game versus advocating for full physical, mental and emotional support of our veterans.

Performative measures are fine...as long as we are doing the hard work that comes with it.  But we oftentimes don't.

I don’t disagree and it’s a point well taken. Performance is certainly more important than pomp. That said, I don’t see a whole lot of benefit to finding our National Anthem cringeworthy or dismissing the flag as nothing but a piece of cloth.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I'm a communist and I'm finally ready to admit it.

You guys are  spot on. One thing that us communists are well known for is not putting the flag everywhere and singing the national anthem all the time.

  Also known for being chronically angry and ill-tempered. If you don't care for the anthem and are down on the flag just suffer in silence. Why ruin everybody's experience?

[tower912]

Irony.   Thanks for that.  Why exactly did this thread start?

[Uncle Rico]

Irony.   Thanks for that.  Why exactly did this thread start?

.

Hashtag-gate

[lawdog77]

  Also known for being chronically angry and ill-tempered. If you don't care for the anthem and are down on the flag just suffer in silence. Why ruin everybody's experience?

It's a little thing called freedom of speech. And through discourse, good things may come up. Like how to help veterans. There should never be a homeless vet.

[Jamo]

Is this the same JB that posts those selfie videos "shooting" in an empty gym under this same #mubb hashtag? Because I am offended by those, not a hashtag change though.

[wadesworld]

Is this the same JB that posts those selfie videos "shooting" in an empty gym under this same #mubb hashtag? Because I am offended by those, not a hashtag change though.

Lol!  Shawn Marion form right there.

[Jay Bee]

Lol!  Shawn Marion form right there.

Shawn Marion… Joakim Noah… in a blender

[Skatastrophy]

It's a little thing called freedom of speech. And through discourse, good things may come up. Like how to help veterans. There should never be a homeless vet.

I mean, that sounds like socialism. Next you'll say they shouldn't be at risk of starving.

We should cover their healthcare, including mental healthcare, at the very least. We put those young people through the wringer to further USA's international policy goals. Gotta take care of the impact that has on enlisted and veteran lives.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I mean, that sounds like socialism. Next you'll say they shouldn't be at risk of starving.

We should cover their healthcare, including mental healthcare, at the very least. We put those young people through the wringer to further USA's international policy goals. Gotta take care of the impact that has on enlisted and veteran lives.

For those here that talk a good game and tell everyone how much they love the country, the flag, and particularly veterans, maybe consider walking the talk when you vote.

Veterans sound alarm on McCarthy budget cuts
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3976425-veterans-sound-alarm-on-mccarthy-budget-cuts/

"Veterans are blasting the debt ceiling legislation passed by the Republican-controlled House this week, warning it will cut key programs and services for the nation’s retired service members.

The House passed the Limit, Save, Grow Act largely along party lines in a 217-215 vote Wednesday night despite the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) warning of a drastic 22 percent cut to the department’s budget under the bill."

[Jay Bee]

^^^ ban dis ze

[lawdog77]

I mean, that sounds like socialism. Next you'll say they shouldn't be at risk of starving.

We should cover their healthcare, including mental healthcare, at the very least. We put those young people through the wringer to further USA's international policy goals. Gotta take care of the impact that has on enlisted and veteran lives.

We should cover everyone's healthcare. Those that serve  and aren't dishonorably discharged should be guaranteed housing. Should be guaranteed a job as well (whether they take that job is up to them).

[lawdog77]

For those here that talk a good game and tell everyone how much they love the country, the flag, and particularly veterans, maybe consider walking the talk when you vote.

Veterans sound alarm on McCarthy budget cuts
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3976425-veterans-sound-alarm-on-mccarthy-budget-cuts/

"Veterans are blasting the debt ceiling legislation passed by the Republican-controlled House this week, warning it will cut key programs and services for the nation’s retired service members.

The House passed the Limit, Save, Grow Act largely along party lines in a 217-215 vote Wednesday night despite the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) warning of a drastic 22 percent cut to the department’s budget under the bill."

Other side:
House Republicans have accused the Biden administration of lying to veterans about purported cuts to their benefits concealed in the debt limit bill their conference passed last week.

GOP members, many of whom are veterans themselves, slammed President Biden over the weekend for “politicizing” the Department of Veterans Affairs after the agency put out an April 21 press release claiming the debt bill would cut funding for veterans’ programs by 22%.

“In my nine years as a member of Congress, I have never seen the use of an agency that is so vitally important to so many people be used as a political hammer, to deliver a message that is false so that it would stir people up to cause our veterans to be used as pawns in a political game,” Rep. Mike Bost (R-Ill.), who chairs the House Veterans Affairs’ Committee, said on a Sunday conference call.

The Limit, Save, Grow Act, which passed the House along party lines April 26, would increase the federal debt ceiling by $1.5 trillion or suspend it until March 31, 2024, whichever comes first.

It would also reduce non-defense discretionary spending to fiscal year 2022 levels and limit the growth of future expenditures to 1% annually over the next 10 years — though no agencies are singled out for spending cuts.
They’re shamelessly lying about veterans benefits and politicizing the VA to do so,” House Republican Conference Chair Elise Stefanik (R-NY) said of the Biden administration. “There is not a single line, not a single page in this bill that Democrats can point to that cuts veterans’ benefits.”

Stefanik added that similar negotiations in 2011 between House Republicans and the Obama White House included no cuts to veterans’ benefits.

House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), Majority Leader Steve Scalise (R-La.) and Bost have all pledged to retain the full range of veterans’ benefits in any final version of a debt ceiling bill.

“The speaker himself has said, ‘We’re protecting veterans.’ Mike Bost, the chairman of the Veterans Affairs Committee, is a veteran himself,” Scalise said Sunday on ABC News’ “This Week.”

“I’ll tell you as the majority leader, I will not bring a bill to the floor of the House — even if President Biden wants it — I will not bring a bill that cuts our veterans.”

Bost said Sunday he had spoken with VA Secretary Denis McDonough earlier in the day, but had “to calm down” first.

“I said, ‘Well, I understand that probably your boss told you to do that,’” added Bost, referring to pressure from the Biden White House. “But still it shouldn’t have been done.”

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3980888-gop-furious-at-va-claiming-debt-bill-cuts-veteran-benefits-shamelessly-lying/

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Of course the GOP is furious, they always are when they are called on their mendacity. They really, really don't like it when people see what they are doing.

[lawdog77]

Of course the GOP is furious, they always are when they are called on their mendacity. They really, really don't like it when people see what they are doing.

Or, they are not cutting benefits.

[Pakuni]

Or, they are not cutting benefits.

Bost claimed that Republicans were not cutting veterans’ benefits even as the text of their bill to raise the nation’s debt ceiling would roll back all discretionary spending.
No language in the House-passed Limit, Save, Grow Act, was included to specifically protect it does include a specific budget rescission for unspent COVID-19 relief funds. That translates to $2 billion coming from the VA.
Although Congress could restore that money in the future, it would result in a reduction in spending for veterans as the proposal stands.House Republicans like Bost have said repeatedly they intend to protect this key constituency. But so far, such protections are not evident on paper.
We rate Bost's statement as Mostly False.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/may/09/mike-bost/republicans-vow-not-to-cut-veterans-benefits-but-t/

[lawdog77]

Bost claimed that Republicans were not cutting veterans’ benefits even as the text of their bill to raise the nation’s debt ceiling would roll back all discretionary spending.
No language in the House-passed Limit, Save, Grow Act, was included to specifically protect it does include a specific budget rescission for unspent COVID-19 relief funds. That translates to $2 billion coming from the VA.
Although Congress could restore that money in the future, it would result in a reduction in spending for veterans as the proposal stands.House Republicans like Bost have said repeatedly they intend to protect this key constituency. But so far, such protections are not evident on paper.
We rate Bost's statement as Mostly False.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/may/09/mike-bost/republicans-vow-not-to-cut-veterans-benefits-but-t/

Republicans Push Back
On ABC’s “This Week” on April 30, House Majority Leader Steve Scalise, who was interviewed after Coons, disagreed with the claim about cuts to services for veterans.

“We talk about protecting veterans,” Scalise said. “We’ve heard this lie over and over again. The speaker himself has said we’re protecting veterans. My boss, the chairman of the Veterans Affairs Committee, is a veteran himself. The only person talking about cutting veterans’ benefits is Joe Biden. And I’ll tell you, as the majority leader, I will not bring a bill to the floor of the House, even if President Biden wants it, I will not bring a bill that cuts our veterans.”

In an April 21 statement released before the vote on the GOP bill, Rep. Mike Bost, the veterans committee chairman whom Scalise mentioned, said Democrats had “spread false claims” about House Republicans trying to cut veterans’ benefits.

“This commonsense bill will grow the economy and save American taxpayers money, all while protecting veterans’ benefits, Social Security, and Medicare,” he said. “Republicans have always prioritized veterans in our spending to ensure veterans have access to the care, benefits, and services they have earned, and as the Chairman of this Committee, that is my number one priority. Anyone who questions our commitment to the men and women who have served should find new talking points.”

In an email to FactCheck.org, Chad Gilmartin, deputy spokesman for House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, said, “Democrats should point to where in the bill it says any of the claims that they make.”

As we said, the text of the bill does not specify which parts of the discretionary budget would be cut — but it also does not say which parts would be shielded from future cuts, which is a point the White House made to us.

“Congressional Republicans could have protected veterans’ medical care” in the bill “but they chose not to — which is why 24 veterans organizations opposed this bill,” a White House spokesperson said in an emailed statement.

We would note that the bill also does not state that defense spending will be spared. However, Democrats seemingly have accepted Republican assurances that it would be, while now dismissing similar assurances that funding for veterans also would not be cut.

But if Republicans were to exclude defense and veterans’ health care from cuts, as they say they would do, that means other discretionary programs would have to be cut by larger percentages.

“If they protect both defense and veterans’ health care from cuts, then all other non-defense discretionary programs would have to be cut 33 percent in 2024 and 59 percent in 2025,” the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities estimated in an April 24 analysis.

Discretionary funding also pays for programs for homeland security, transportation, education, housing, social services and more.

Ultimately, specific spending cuts, or exemptions from those cuts, would be addressed during the regular appropriations process — if the GOP bill somehow became law.


https://www.factcheck.org/2023/05/republicans-push-back-on-democratic-claims-of-veterans-health-care-cuts-in-gop-debt-limit-bill/

[willie warrior]

Bost claimed that Republicans were not cutting veterans’ benefits even as the text of their bill to raise the nation’s debt ceiling would roll back all discretionary spending.
No language in the House-passed Limit, Save, Grow Act, was included to specifically protect it does include a specific budget rescission for unspent COVID-19 relief funds. That translates to $2 billion coming from the VA.
Although Congress could restore that money in the future, it would result in a reduction in spending for veterans as the proposal stands.House Republicans like Bost have said repeatedly they intend to protect this key constituency. But so far, such protections are not evident on paper.
We rate Bost's statement as Mostly False.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/may/09/mike-bost/republicans-vow-not-to-cut-veterans-benefits-but-t/

I’ve read extensively about the battle of Iwo Jima and the exploitation of the men that raised the flag and how they were discarded by fellow Americans following the war.

Wisconsin’s very own John Bradley purposely avoided discussing the flag raising until the day he died.

These men deserved far better than a song being played before a sporting event

So who is advocating that is what they deserved-'just a song?  What is that point?
And military veterans do receive far more than just a song.
And Bradley avoided talking about most of what he encountered, not just the flag raising. The flag raising was and is an inspirational symbol of World War II and our country as is the National Anthem a symbol of our country.
And you just make a half ass smart comment about talking to the Marines. I have talked to countless Marines the great majority who are patriotic. You should try it.

[Pakuni]

Republicans Push Back
On ABC’s “This Week” on April 30, House Majority Leader Steve Scalise, who was interviewed after Coons, disagreed with the claim about cuts to services for veterans.

This doesn't support your argument, fwiw.
Basically, the House GOP has put forth a bill that proposes cuts in ALL discretionary spending. VA funding comes from discretionary funding. Hence, they've put forth a bill that proposes cuts to VA funding.
They're essentially telling you, "Don't believe what we put in writing. Believe what we're telling you instead. Trust us."
If you wish to take them at their word, knowing their solid record of honesty and integrity, good for you.
But based on what they put in writing, they're proposing VA cuts.