EV's

[Hards Alumni]

It exists. Dodge ramcharger

That's a pickup truck. 

Also, the one I am looking at has a 3.6L 'generator'... which is uhhhh gas?

[rocket surgeon]

lol

Translation (of most of your responses to mild criticism): "and another thing: im not mad. please dont put in the newspaper that i got mad."

ohhhh...phew!!  and i thought you were mad at me and made my morning just unbearable but now i feel so much better

[dgies9156]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/03/07/ai-data-centers-power/

Gang, this one is behind a paywall, but the headline is clear -- electric power for nearly 300 million new EVs will be at a premium.

This isn't Fox News either. It's the Bible of the Liberal set -- the Washington Post!

[Hards Alumni]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/03/07/ai-data-centers-power/

Gang, this one is behind a paywall, but the headline is clear -- electric power for nearly 300 million new EVs will be at a premium.

This isn't Fox News either. It's the Bible of the Liberal set -- the Washington Post!

Most cars can charge overnight without impacting load on the power plants.

Plus look into how much solar and wind energy are being added every month in the US.

The shift to EVs for everyone won't happen over night, there is plenty of time to plan and add capacity.

[jesmu84]

That's a pickup truck. 

Also, the one I am looking at has a 3.6L 'generator'... which is uhhhh gas?

Didn't know exactly what type of vehicle you're looking for

Yea, that's the one. That vehicle is what truck drivers should actually be using - as opposed to a pure BEV.

125+ mi all electric (no towing). But then road trips or towing with electric/gas combo. The gas generator charges the batteries during driving.

[JWags85]

Most cars can charge overnight without impacting load on the power plants.

Plus look into how much solar and wind energy are being added every month in the US.

The shift to EVs for everyone won't happen over night, there is plenty of time to plan and add capacity.

Which i think is key.  But unfortunately the reactionary doofuses who need change TODAY or need ICE cars/trucks outlawed by 2025 don't acknowledge that and thats where the caveats about power grids come from.

We'll get there. We'll get the excess energy needed.  We'll get the range boosts to make it attractive, its a just matter of time.  As with everything climate/energy related, the leaps needed to make real change come from innovation, not from wholesale modification of what is existing.

[MU82]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/03/07/ai-data-centers-power/

Gang, this one is behind a paywall, but the headline is clear -- electric power for nearly 300 million new EVs will be at a premium.

This isn't Fox News either. It's the Bible of the Liberal set -- the Washington Post!

According to the article, it's not EVs that are the problem. Power needed for AI data centers, bitcoin miners, and other industrial power seems to be the main users.

Vast swaths of the United States are at risk of running short of power as electricity-hungry data centers and clean-technology factories proliferate around the country, leaving utilities and regulators grasping for credible plans to expand the nation's creaking power grid.

In Georgia, demand for industrial power is surging to record highs, with the projection of electricity use for the next decade now 17 times what it was only recently. Arizona Public Service, the largest utility in that state, is also struggling to keep up, projecting it will be out of transmission capacity before the end of the decade absent major upgrades.

Northern Virginia needs the equivalent of several large nuclear power plants to serve all the new data centers planned and under construction. Texas, where electricity shortages are already routine on hot summer days, faces the same dilemma.

The soaring demand is touching off a scramble to try to squeeze more juice out of an aging power grid while pushing commercial customers to go to extraordinary lengths to lock down energy sources, such as building their own power plants.

"When you look at the numbers, it is staggering," said Jason Shaw, chairman of the Georgia Public Service Commission, which regulates electricity. "It makes you scratch your head and wonder how we ended up in this situation. How were the projections that far off? This has created a challenge like we have never seen before."

A major factor behind the skyrocketing demand is the rapid innovation in artificial intelligence, which is driving the construction of large warehouses of computing infrastructure that require exponentially more power than traditional data centers. AI is also part of a huge scale-up of cloud computing. Tech firms like Amazon, Apple, Google, Meta and Microsoft are scouring the nation for sites for new data centers, and many lesser-known firms are also on the hunt.

The proliferation of crypto-mining, in which currencies like bitcoin are transacted and minted, is also driving data center growth. It is all putting new pressures on an overtaxed grid — the network of transmission lines and power stations that move electricity around the country. Bottlenecks are mounting, leaving both new generators of energy, particularly clean energy, and large consumers facing growing wait times for hookups.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

According to the article, it's not EVs that are the problem. Power needed for AI data centers, bitcoin miners, and other industrial power seems to be the main users.

Vast swaths of the United States are at risk of running short of power as electricity-hungry data centers and clean-technology factories proliferate around the country, leaving utilities and regulators grasping for credible plans to expand the nation's creaking power grid.

In Georgia, demand for industrial power is surging to record highs, with the projection of electricity use for the next decade now 17 times what it was only recently. Arizona Public Service, the largest utility in that state, is also struggling to keep up, projecting it will be out of transmission capacity before the end of the decade absent major upgrades.

Northern Virginia needs the equivalent of several large nuclear power plants to serve all the new data centers planned and under construction. Texas, where electricity shortages are already routine on hot summer days, faces the same dilemma.

The soaring demand is touching off a scramble to try to squeeze more juice out of an aging power grid while pushing commercial customers to go to extraordinary lengths to lock down energy sources, such as building their own power plants.

"When you look at the numbers, it is staggering," said Jason Shaw, chairman of the Georgia Public Service Commission, which regulates electricity. "It makes you scratch your head and wonder how we ended up in this situation. How were the projections that far off? This has created a challenge like we have never seen before."

A major factor behind the skyrocketing demand is the rapid innovation in artificial intelligence, which is driving the construction of large warehouses of computing infrastructure that require exponentially more power than traditional data centers. AI is also part of a huge scale-up of cloud computing. Tech firms like Amazon, Apple, Google, Meta and Microsoft are scouring the nation for sites for new data centers, and many lesser-known firms are also on the hunt.

The proliferation of crypto-mining, in which currencies like bitcoin are transacted and minted, is also driving data center growth. It is all putting new pressures on an overtaxed grid — the network of transmission lines and power stations that move electricity around the country. Bottlenecks are mounting, leaving both new generators of energy, particularly clean energy, and large consumers facing growing wait times for hookups.

The IRA credits kicked in recently and I have never been more busy with sales matters working in green energy. It is all going gangbusters. They certainly are working on it. Just may be a lagging catch up for a while especially with the AI boom.

[rocky_warrior]

While this is true, the amount of routine maintenance costs are much smaller.  There are thousands of individual parts in an ICE plus they need to be maintained/lubricated, etc.

Electric motors are incredibly simply and require next to no maintenance relatively.

Oh, I agree completely - at least how reliable and simple EVs *should* be when manufactured properly.  I can't remember if you and I were conversing on the hybrid topic, but the combo of ICE an Electric is why I can't really hop on the hybrid bandwagon.  It's a binary choice in my mind.

[GOO]

If you look into it, compare Toyotas. Their hybrids have lower cost of ownership and lower repairs and have for a long time.  Not just brake and gas savings.  Apparently it also has to do with less wear on the engine and other components.

Before I bought my first Prius when there were few in the Midwest, I thought the same: who wants more stuff that could go wrong in a car. A trip to CA in the 2000's, seeing Prius's all over, made me think they can't all be idiots. Made me dig into it a bit.


I am actually surprised by some posts, not Rocky's specifically, that people aren't more familiar with hybrids. I see no reason not to buy one from a company such as Toyota, Kia, maybe Ford, over a comparable ICE. Lower cost of ownership, pollute less, start stop engine. When I'm in a parking garage in line with ICE vehicles it is like the Stone Age except I hailing all this fumes.  Same with stop lights, drive through lanes. At least a hybrid usually shuts off its engine.

[jesmu84]

If you look into it, compare Toyotas. Their hybrids have lower cost of ownership and lower repairs and have for a long time.  Not just brake and gas savings.  Apparently it also has to do with less wear on the engine and other components.

Before I bought my first Prius when there were few in the Midwest, I thought the same: who wants more stuff that could go wrong in a car. A trip to CA in the 2000's, seeing Prius's all over, made me think they can't all be idiots. Made me dig into it a bit.


I am actually surprised by some posts, not Rocky's specifically, that people aren't more familiar with hybrids. I see no reason not to buy one from a company such as Toyota, Kia, maybe Ford, over a comparable ICE. Lower cost of ownership, pollute less, start stop engine. When I'm in a parking garage in line with ICE vehicles it is like the Stone Age except I hailing all this fumes.  Same with stop lights, drive through lanes. At least a hybrid usually shuts off its engine.

The cost upfront is more than ICE and the cost savings takes a significant amount of time to recoup

[GOO]

It depends on a lot of factors, of course. Price of gas, miles driven, highway versus city/suburban driving, short trips often versus long highway miles. Big interstate commuters won't see the pay back as fast as city drivers. But it will save money in the longer term. And pretty quickly for those who put a lot of miles on. And it will help save our lungs.

[rocky_warrior]

I am actually surprised by some posts, not Rocky's specifically, that people aren't more familiar with hybrids. I see no reason not to buy one from a company such as Toyota, Kia, maybe Ford, over a comparable ICE.

Since I brought hybrids into this, I'll clarify for others that my daily driver is a 26 year old ICE vehicle with ~290k miles that came with a tag from the plant that it was made specifically for me, and rarely needs repairs   I had a 2001 mid-engine convertible roadster in the past that I mostly drove in the summers that kept miles on this one down (wish I hadn't sold that now).

I've been looking into EVs.

[GOO]

Since I brought hybrids into this, I'll clarify for others that my daily driver is a 26 year old ICE vehicle with ~290k miles that came with a tag from the plant that it was made specifically for me, and rarely needs repairs   I had a 2001 mid-engine convertible roadster in the past that I mostly drove in the summers that kept miles on this one down (wish I hadn't sold that now).

I've been looking into EVs.

Unsolicited advice from a stranger:

Hybrid: Strongly consider Toyota. Maybe Kia/Hyundai next. Not sure on the rest, maybe Ford for US but I personally wouldn't. If looking at others compare the mileage between the hybrid and non-hybrid. Some brands throw a batter in and call it a hybrid but they do little. PersonallyI wouldn't trust the others yet, but that's me and we keep cars for 8 plus years. My last Prius had 197k before I sold it at 14 years old. It became a 3rd car for me to use when others in the family were using my ev.

EV: Strongly consider Tesla. If a model 3, make sure you get the updated 3 that just came out. If going for a Y wait, if you possibly can, until the "Juniper" refresh happens, likely towards the end of this year, maybe early 2025.  If you can wait on the 3, I would for the tax credit to return, I think only the performance trim had the credit now but I see you can't order it now. Obviously AWD unless you're in the south.

[Uncle Rico]

https://electrek.co/2024/03/08/tesla-shipping-cybertruck-tent/

[jficke13]

A $3000 tent.

[jesmu84]

Rivian R2 and R3 look nice

[tower912]

They do.  Hopefully the company can stay afloat until they arrive.   Also, hopefully, the company has enough institutional flexibility to adapt to new and improved battery tech.

[WarriorFan]

I hope to be the last person on the planet with a V8 car.
Or two.
Hybrids are a nice idea but the benefits are largely offset by the extra fuel burn required because of the increased horsepower needed due to the extra weight and lower efficiency of the electrical system vs. traditional drivetrain. 
Battery EV's are a fad.  The power density of a battery vs. gasoline will never allow it to be successful for the long term.

[JWags85]

Rivian R2 and R3 look nice

R3 is ok, R2 looks like a Roblox car

[21Jumpstreet]

They do.  Hopefully the company can stay afloat until they arrive.   Also, hopefully, the company has enough institutional flexibility to adapt to new and improved battery tech.

Hopefully indeed. My son is headed to Irvine to work for them this summer. He said the company is excited for the new vehicles, I think they look great.

[Hards Alumni]

I hope to be the last person on the planet with a V8 car.
Or two.
Hybrids are a nice idea but the benefits are largely offset by the extra fuel burn required because of the increased horsepower needed due to the extra weight and lower efficiency of the electrical system vs. traditional drivetrain. 
Battery EV's are a fad.  The power density of a battery vs. gasoline will never allow it to be successful for the long term.

Lots of wrong here.  Lol

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I hope to be the last person on the planet with a V8 car.
Or two.
Hybrids are a nice idea but the benefits are largely offset by the extra fuel burn required because of the increased horsepower needed due to the extra weight and lower efficiency of the electrical system vs. traditional drivetrain. 
Battery EV's are a fad.  The power density of a battery vs. gasoline will never allow it to be successful for the long term.

Ain't no way these fancy self-driving buggies will ever replace the traditonal horse.

[jesmu84]

I hope to be the last person on the planet with a V8 car.
Or two.
Hybrids are a nice idea but the benefits are largely offset by the extra fuel burn required because of the increased horsepower needed due to the extra weight and lower efficiency of the electrical system vs. traditional drivetrain.
Battery EV's are a fad.  The power density of a battery vs. gasoline will never allow it to be successful for the long term.

Wut

[GOO]

I hope to be the last person on the planet with a V8 car.
Or two.
Hybrids are a nice idea but the benefits are largely offset by the extra fuel burn required because of the increased horsepower needed due to the extra weight and lower efficiency of the electrical system vs. traditional drivetrain. 
Battery EV's are a fad.  The power density of a battery vs. gasoline will never allow it to be successful for the long term.

This has to be teal, I assume.