Ohio train disaster

[Pakuni]

Most accidents are. That's why they call them accidents.

Consider the infamous DC10 crash at ORD in 1979. It was an accident but it happened because (a) A group of maintenance pros changed the way the took the jet engine and pylon off the wing, without a thorough vetting of the implications; (b) The DC10 operating manual had the exact opposite procedure that should have been followed for a left wing stall; and, (c) The hydraulic fluid lines were not capable of sealing themselves largely because no one ever imagined an accident akin to what happened at ORD.

The part you're not mentioning here is that the airlines changed the way they did this because it saved hundreds of hours of labor over the life of each aircraft. The airlines thought they'd found a quicker and cheaper way to do the maintenance - manufacturer recommendations be damned - and it ended up causing a crash.

[real chili 83]

Thank you 3M for my tasty drinking water.

[jesmu84]

https://v.redd.it/2kgiy96cizha1

[jesmu84]

https://newrepublic.com/post/170570/life-ohio-train-derailment-trouble-breathing-dying-animals-saying-goodbye

[jesmu84]

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/

[jesmu84]

I think it's odd that the governor hasn't declared a state of emergency, which would allow FEMA to cleanup/help

[MU82]

From the Columbus Dispatch, Ohio's governor is outraged:

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine wants Congress to reassess rail legislation that allowed a train to haul toxic cargo through his state. “Frankly, if this is true, and I’m told it’s true, this is absurd,” DeWine said. Under current regulations, because only some of the cars on the Norfolk Southern train that derailed earlier this month carried toxic cargo, the company was exempt from notifying Ohio authorities of its haul. “They’re taking care of the railroad, but they’re not taking care of business here,” East Palestine resident Tim Cumberlidge complained. Locals will meet with officials at a town hall Wednesday night.

One might say the governor sounds like a whiny, woke politician ... but he has an R next to his name.

[dgies9156]

The part you're not mentioning here is that the airlines changed the way they did this because it saved hundreds of hours of labor over the life of each aircraft. The airlines thought they'd found a quicker and cheaper way to do the maintenance - manufacturer recommendations be damned - and it ended up causing a crash.

Your finding is correct as to how the one-step engine drop happened. Your characterization of my comments disregards the clause "without a full vetting of the implications."

The mechanics for American Airlines in Tulsa developed the one-step method. Sometimes people get so locked up in what they are required to do that they fail to see the broader implications of what they're doing.

There also is complacency. In the Ohio case, how many times did chemicals go through Ohio (or Indiana, Illinois, Iowa etc.) without incident? The answer probably is lots

[Jockey]

https://www.levernews.com/rail-companies-blocked-safety-rules-before-ohio-derailment/

Rail companies cannot block safety rules.

Politicians can.

[Jay Bee]

Can the paternity leave dude help on this?

[jesmu84]

Can the paternity leave dude help on this?

He should be. Or, his department. Or, this whole administration.

[jesmu84]

Great thread by a local reporter:

https://twitter.com/joedonatelli/status/1625213288614076433?t=5NVij-HI0j9T026Ynv648Q&s=19

More:

https://twitter.com/joedonatelli/status/1625537292612825088?t=v9uClE6WKzTjfpH0k3VGlA&s=19

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

All things considered, people treating this like Chernobyl are over exaggerating. However that’s not to say that this was utterly avoidable and never should have been a thing. It’s entirely reasonable that the groundwater is safe for human consumption now though. Good time to put in the mechanisms to prevent other crashes

[rocket surgeon]

Pets dying. Fish in streams dying. Chickens dying

This seems bad.

And this doesn't take into account long term environmental aspects. Likely cancer clusters.

Questions about how much spilled into the Ohio river and could impact lots of the Midwest.

Faulty brakes on the train. Obama introduced regulations for train brakes, Trump cancelled, Biden didn't re-introduce and Pete has no interest in doing it now.

  the regulations for the brakes was for trains carrying CRUDE OIL.  may sound a bit nuanced to those of you from rio linda, but unfortunately that is how our gubmint works.  one would think if brakes were at issue at all, it would include brakes for trains carrying ANYTHING toxic.  i'm sure this has much to do(very unfortunately) with how much lobbyists were willing to pay the "appropriate" persons or groups.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/408125-trump-admin-rolls-back-obama-oil-train-safety-rule/


just wanted to set the record straight before the "blame game" was unnecessarily misconstrued as it seems it already has by the usual suspects

[muwarrior69]

From the Columbus Dispatch, Ohio's governor is outraged:

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine wants Congress to reassess rail legislation that allowed a train to haul toxic cargo through his state. “Frankly, if this is true, and I’m told it’s true, this is absurd,” DeWine said. Under current regulations, because only some of the cars on the Norfolk Southern train that derailed earlier this month carried toxic cargo, the company was exempt from notifying Ohio authorities of its haul. “They’re taking care of the railroad, but they’re not taking care of business here,” East Palestine resident Tim Cumberlidge complained. Locals will meet with officials at a town hall Wednesday night.

One might say the governor sounds like a whiny, woke politician ... but he has an R next to his name.

The lady interviewed on Tucker Carlson last night (I know I know) was not too happy with DeWine either. At the town meeting she also challenged any EPA official to drink a bottle of tap water she brought with her. There were no takers. These people don't care if there is an R or a D after some politician's name. They just want straight answers to their questions and concerns and they're not getting any.

[tower912]

For 30+ years, I trained annually on railroad disasters.   This falls into the 'worst case scenario' category as far as the large amount and type of hazardous materials released.    Just like a Tesla fire in a garage in the middle of a row of townhomes or the next school shooting, the questions have always been when and where, not if.

So, when I said a few days ago that this was only going to get worse....

[jesmu84]

All things considered, people treating this like Chernobyl are over exaggerating. However that’s not to say that this was utterly avoidable and never should have been a thing. It’s entirely reasonable that the groundwater is safe for human consumption now though. Good time to put in the mechanisms to prevent other crashes

I'm not 100% sure the groundwater is safe.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ohio-sen-vance-takes-video-creek-east-palestine-chemical-spill-this-disgusting

[jesmu84]

  the regulations for the brakes was for trains carrying CRUDE OIL.  may sound a bit nuanced to those of you from rio linda, but unfortunately that is how our gubmint works.  one would think if brakes were at issue at all, it would include brakes for trains carrying ANYTHING toxic.  i'm sure this has much to do(very unfortunately) with how much lobbyists were willing to pay the "appropriate" persons or groups.

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/408125-trump-admin-rolls-back-obama-oil-train-safety-rule/


just wanted to set the record straight before the "blame game" was unnecessarily misconstrued as it seems it already has by the usual suspects

This is correct.

So we have a company not wanting to upgrade because of cost. And a government not wanting to enforce new regulations because of lobbying.

What do you believe should be the solution?

[MuggsyB]

For 30+ years, I trained annually on railroad disasters.   This falls into the 'worst case scenario' category as far as the large amount and type of hazardous materials released.    Just like a Tesla fire in a garage in the middle of a row of townhomes or the next school shooting, the questions have always been when and where, not if.

So, when I said a few days ago that this was only going to get worse....

Tower,

None of this sounds good to me.  At all. 

[rocket surgeon]

This is correct.

So we have a company not wanting to upgrade because of cost. And a government not wanting to enforce new regulations because of lobbying.

What do you believe should be the solution?

  get the f' ing money out of politics...in other words, there is no solution so very unfortunately

  with partisanship-money-power at such a high, NO ONE can be impartial today regardless of right/wrong anymore. 

there is absolutely NO reason for our gubmint to PROPERLY respond to this disaster in ohio.  i would love to hear WHY these people have been given the middle finger from this admin and the EPA.  now it's going to come down to trust, but that has been eroding for some time now while the drip...drip...drip continues. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

What do you mean "there is no reason for the government to properly respond to this disaster?" The regulation of interstate commerce is the responsibility of the federal government. It is literally their responsibility to respond to this disaster.

And you aren't getting money out of politics. You could take steps to de-emphasize its influence, but that would require Constitutional amendments and the enforcement of ethics rules. Neither are terribly likely.

[MU82]

  get the f' ing money out of politics.

Pleasantly surprised that you and I agree that Citizens United was a disaster of a decision by SCOTUS.

[tower912]

Governor Mike Dewine at a February 14 press briefing....

"Look, the president called me and said 'Anything you need'.   I have not called him back after that conversation.   We will not hesitate to do so if we see a problem or anything, but I'm not seeing it."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ohios-dewine-says-he-has-not-taken-up-biden-on-offer-of-anything-you-need-in-wake-of-train-derailment-disaster-adf4c949

[jesmu84]

Governor Mike Dewine at a February 14 press briefing....

"Look, the president called me and said 'Anything you need'.   I have not called him back after that conversation.   We will not hesitate to do so if we see a problem or anything, but I'm not seeing it."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/ohios-dewine-says-he-has-not-taken-up-biden-on-offer-of-anything-you-need-in-wake-of-train-derailment-disaster-adf4c949

I've seen a lot of anger directed toward the white house for not sending in FEMA. Except they can only go when asked. And Dewine hasn't asked

[jesmu84]

  get the f' ing money out of politics...in other words, there is no solution so very unfortunately

  with partisanship-money-power at such a high, NO ONE can be impartial today regardless of right/wrong anymore. 

there is absolutely NO reason for our gubmint to PROPERLY respond to this disaster in ohio.  i would love to hear WHY these people have been given the middle finger from this admin and the EPA.  now it's going to come down to trust, but that has been eroding for some time now while the drip...drip...drip continues.

Do you believe both Rs and Ds in Congress would not support legislation to get money out of politics?