Pope Francis says homosexuality is not a crime

[MU82]

https://apnews.com/article/pope-francis-gay-rights-ap-interview-1359756ae22f27f87c1d4d6b9c8ce212

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis criticized laws that criminalize homosexuality as "unjust," saying God loves all his children just as they are and called on Catholic bishops who support the laws to welcome LGBTQ people into the church.

"Being homosexual isn't a crime," Francis said during an interview Tuesday with The Associated Press.

Francis acknowledged that Catholic bishops in some parts of the world support laws that criminalize homosexuality or discriminate against the LGBTQ community, and he himself referred to the issue in terms of "sin." But he attributed such attitudes to cultural backgrounds, and said bishops in particular need to undergo a process of change to recognize the dignity of everyone.

"These bishops have to have a process of conversion," he said, adding that they should apply "tenderness, please, as God has for each one of us."

Some 67 countries or jurisdictions worldwide criminalize consensual same-sex sexual activity, 11 of which can or do impose the death penalty, according to The Human Dignity Trust, which works to end such laws. Experts say even where the laws are not enforced, they contribute to harassment, stigmatization and violence against LGBTQ people.

In the U.S., more than a dozen states still have anti-sodomy laws on the books, despite a 2003 Supreme Court ruling declaring them unconstitutional. Gay rights advocates say the antiquated laws are used to harass homosexuals, and point to new legislation, such as the "Don't say gay" law in Florida, which forbids instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity in kindergarten through third grade, as evidence of continued efforts to marginalize LGBTQ people.

The United Nations has repeatedly called for an end to laws criminalizing homosexuality outright, saying they violate rights to privacy and freedom from discrimination and are a breach of countries' obligations under international law to protect the human rights of all people, regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

Declaring such laws "unjust," Francis said the Catholic Church can and should work to put an end to them. "It must do this. It must do this," he said.

Francis quoted the Catechism of the Catholic Church in saying gay people must be welcomed and respected, and should not be marginalized or discriminated against.

"We are all children of God, and God loves us as we are and for the strength that each of us fights for our dignity," Francis said, speaking to the AP in the Vatican hotel where he lives.

[tower912]

He differentiates between sin and crime.   He says it is a sin, but there are many sins, such as not showing compassion to your neighbor.

It is not currently a crime in this country.

[Uncle Rico]

In before the lock

[The Sultan]

To clarify, according to the Church, simply "being homosexual" is not a sin. Or in the language in the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, having "a homosexual inclination." Committing homosexual acts is a sin.

But don't get me started on how an omnipotent and loving God would bless some people with "a homosexual inclination" yet declare it a sin to act upon that inclination. Sounds kinda cruel to me, but whatever.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

https://apnews.com/article/pope-francis-gay-rights-ap-interview-1359756ae22f27f87c1d4d6b9c8ce212

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis criticized laws that criminalize homosexuality as "unjust," saying God loves all his children just as they are and called on Catholic bishops who support the laws to welcome LGBTQ people into the church.

"Being homosexual isn't a crime," Francis said during an interview Tuesday with The Associated Press.

Francis acknowledged that Catholic bishops in some parts of the world support laws that criminalize homosexuality or discriminate against the LGBTQ community, and he himself referred to the issue in terms of "sin." But he attributed such attitudes to cultural backgrounds, and said bishops in particular need to undergo a process of change to recognize the dignity of everyone.

"These bishops have to have a process of conversion," he said, adding that they should apply "tenderness, please, as God has for each one of us."

Some 67 countries or jurisdictions worldwide criminalize consensual same-sex sexual activity, 11 of which can or do impose the death penalty, according to The Human Dignity Trust, which works to end such laws. Experts say even where the laws are not enforced, they contribute to harassment, stigmatization and violence against LGBTQ people.

In the U.S., more than a dozen states still have anti-sodomy laws on the books, despite a 2003 Supreme Court ruling declaring them unconstitutional. Gay rights advocates say the antiquated laws are used to harass homosexuals, and point to new legislation, such as the "Don't say gay" law in Florida, which forbids instruction on sexual orientation and gender identity in kindergarten through third grade, as evidence of continued efforts to marginalize LGBTQ people.

The United Nations has repeatedly called for an end to laws criminalizing homosexuality outright, saying they violate rights to privacy and freedom from discrimination and are a breach of countries' obligations under international law to protect the human rights of all people, regardless of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

Declaring such laws "unjust," Francis said the Catholic Church can and should work to put an end to them. "It must do this. It must do this," he said.

Francis quoted the Catechism of the Catholic Church in saying gay people must be welcomed and respected, and should not be marginalized or discriminated against.

"We are all children of God, and God loves us as we are and for the strength that each of us fights for our dignity," Francis said, speaking to the AP in the Vatican hotel where he lives.

Congratulations

[Golden Avalanche]

Frank was counting the hours until Ben hit the ground. Frank won't last long but he'll go out firing.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Congratulations

So, so clever

[tower912]

It wasn't bad, in a 80's high school sophomore kind of way.   

[ZiggysFryBoy]

So, so clever

🐷🐷

[GB Warrior]

To clarify, according to the Church, simply "being homosexual" is not a sin. Or in the language in the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, having "a homosexual inclination." Committing homosexual acts is a sin.

But don't get me started on how an omnipotent and loving God would bless some people with "a homosexual inclination" yet declare it a sin to act upon that inclination. Sounds kinda cruel to me, but whatever.

Needed that so that closet Republicans in congress could sleep at night (not that there is anything wrong with that- hope they can live their truth)

[real chili 83]

Mike, it's not a gun thread, but still some good work.

In before the lock.

[MU82]

Mike, it's not a gun thread, but still some good work.

In before the lock.

Absolutely. The pope's views on controversial subjects should be off limits for discussions among people whose alma mater is a Catholic university.

[Jay Bee]

#FreeMU82

[21Jumpstreet]

Nothing like a made up construct commenting on a made up construct about made up laws to support some made up hierarchy. It's too bad something like this needs to be addressed.

[Jay Bee]

...I smell a sinner!!

[tower912]

We're all sinners, JB.

[Uncle Rico]

We're all sinners, JB.

Not me

[swoopem]

We're all sinners, JB.

And all the sinners saints

According to Mick

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

We're all sinners, JB.

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, the sinners have much more fun" - Billy Joel

[tower912]

In that vein, I recommend 'Company of fools' by Great Big Sea.

[manny31]

Have you seen the movie "Two Popes"?
It was good, a good portrayal of where the church finds itself along with the arguments both sides present...

[dgies9156]

Most of us who live in American culture have two major issues with the Roman Catholic Church.

First, the Church is not a Democracy. At best, it's a Monarchy with significant influence from the Lords. The only way the Monarch listens is if the Peasants (aka, the faithful) stop contributing their resources. Or, if the peasants refuse the leadership of the Monarchy, which is increasingly happening. The Church, as a monarchy, moves at a glacial pace, often with the concern that any major changes diminishes the regality of the monarch.

As Americans, we think if we scream loud enough, we will inevitably get what we want.

Second, we see America as the be all and end all of social progress. Why the heck can't they see things our way? Part of the answer is the Roman Catholic Church is a universal church. Its values reflect the whole world, including many places where homosexuality is viewed very differently than here.

Ultimately, the church has to interpret Biblical teachings. This one involving homosexuality is suspect at best and pits the notion of a loving God and the concept that we're all God's children against traditional human "norms." My view is similar to that of a very controversial priest from the Diocese of Nashville in that I can't imagine a loving God condemning to hell a homosexual that She made homosexual. I just can't. I suspect Francis is saying the same thing.

One last point about Christianity: It's got a big problem called the Millennials. They ain't going and, in that regard, they're reflecting a broader trend that has accelerated since Covid-19. If people "go," they go privately in the comfort of their home watching the Mass they want from the Parish that best suits them. They're far less likely to become part of a Christian Community, be it Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal or Presbyterian etc. In my case, we found online Mass during Covid-19 liberating, as it freed us from a very irrelevant parish in the Chicago suburbs. We really missed our Florida parish, however.

[MU82]

Very thoughtful post, dg. Thanks for sharing it.

[Galway Eagle]

Most of us who live in American culture have two major issues with the Roman Catholic Church.

First, the Church is not a Democracy. At best, it's a Monarchy with significant influence from the Lords. The only way the Monarch listens is if the Peasants (aka, the faithful) stop contributing their resources. Or, if the peasants refuse the leadership of the Monarchy, which is increasingly happening. The Church, as a monarchy, moves at a glacial pace, often with the concern that any major changes diminishes the regality of the monarch.

As Americans, we think if we scream loud enough, we will inevitably get what we want.

Second, we see America as the be all and end all of social progress. Why the heck can't they see things our way? Part of the answer is the Roman Catholic Church is a universal church. Its values reflect the whole world, including many places where homosexuality is viewed very differently than here.

Ultimately, the church has to interpret Biblical teachings. This one involving homosexuality is suspect at best and pits the notion of a loving God and the concept that we're all God's children against traditional human "norms." My view is similar to that of a very controversial priest from the Diocese of Nashville in that I can't imagine a loving God condemning to hell a homosexual that She made homosexual. I just can't. I suspect Francis is saying the same thing.

One last point about Christianity: It's got a big problem called the Millennials. They ain't going and, in that regard, they're reflecting a broader trend that has accelerated since Covid-19. If people "go," they go privately in the comfort of their home watching the Mass they want from the Parish that best suits them. They're far less likely to become part of a Christian Community, be it Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal or Presbyterian etc. In my case, we found online Mass during Covid-19 liberating, as it freed us from a very irrelevant parish in the Chicago suburbs. We really missed our Florida parish, however.

Lol at the first underlined.

To the second underlined, Millennials are up to their early forties and youngest are late 20s. Time to start at least adding gen z when pointing fingers at the kids that ruin everything they're adults and a large segment of society.

[dgies9156]

Lol at the first underlined.

To the second underlined, Millennials are up to their early forties and youngest are late 20s. Time to start at least adding gen z when pointing fingers at the kids that ruin everything they're adults and a large segment of society.

Brother Galway:

On the first, we do see our culture as the "best." I think everybody does. Many Scoopers propose maximum means to improve. I've been guilty of that a time or two. But most of us still love our country and the inherent values we stand for -- even though we don't often live up to our ideals.

On the second, I'm not blaming the Millennials, Gen X or even Gen Z for whatever problems exist in Christian Churches. Quite the contrary, I'm arguing that most Christian Churches haven't tailored their message for their target audience. In my faith's case, we have certain doctrinal issues that are primary and not changeable. It's how we view God and each other. We also have a boatload of rituals that may have made sense 400 years ago but should either be changed or eliminated to address the new reality of God's people. For example, my faith's views of the role of women are largely primitive and frankly, ignorant in places. They reflect a division of labor that hasn't existed in at least since World War II.

The role of women, views on homosexuality are the kinds of things that an inclusive Christian religion must re-evaluate as it appeals to the next generations.