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Author Topic: Hoyas SOTG  (Read 7594 times)

willie warrior

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #75 on: January 08, 2023, 05:49:59 AM »
Tyler, and after today's masterpiece I ran some numbers.

He's at 7.94 apg. If he plays in 32 games (the minimum with a BET game) he's on pace to become only the second Marquette player to crack 250 assists in a season (254 pace).

If Marquette makes the NCAA tournament and manages to win a game there and at MSG, TK is on pace to break Tony Miller's 274 single season record.

If Tyler stays two more years and Marquette averages 36 games per year while maintaining that 7.94 average, he would shatter Miller's career record of 956 (that pace would be 1,045).

If TK did hit 1,045 here, he would be at 1,095 for his career thanks to 50 assists at GMU. That would break Bobby Hurley's NCAA record of 1,076.

I once thought of Miller's assist record as unbreakable, like McIlvaine's blocks. TK has changed that thinking.
Pretty tall order to sustain. Tony's record still looks unbreakable, but if anybody could, likely Kolek
He runs the offense very well and needs to be on the floor. Do think he should shoot more when he drives, but his decisions usually work out.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #76 on: January 08, 2023, 06:54:18 AM »
He's a wonderful passer and one of our two MVPs, and I'm happy he has worked his rear off to become a fine PG for Marquette ... but he'll remind me of Travis Diener when he hits huge shots and when he wins NCAA tournament games.

Some forget that Wade was bad in our first 2003 NCAAT game and that it was Diener who saved the team ... and then saved us again (along with Novak) in the next round against Mizzou. Diener was 10-17 from 3 in those two games, and we needed every effen one of those 3s. Then, he had 15 assists as we won our next two tourney games to get to the Final Four.

No Marquette player since then has reminded me of Travis Diener. It would be abso-freakin'-lutely wonderful if Kolek ever does.

He’ll never score like Travis. Travis was an outstanding shooter. But he’s a better passer, rebounder and defender - that counts for something.

Edit: I didn’t see Elon’s post - a +1 to his would have sufficed.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2023, 08:34:56 AM by Lennys Tap »

Scoop Snoop

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #77 on: January 08, 2023, 07:05:27 AM »
He’ll never score like Travis. Travis was an outstanding shooter. But he’s a better passer, rebounder and defender - that counts for something.

Agree except for the last word. That counts for a LOT.
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rocket surgeon

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #78 on: January 08, 2023, 08:13:30 AM »
  the BIG O is all over the place man! 
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TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #79 on: January 08, 2023, 08:25:24 AM »
My understanding is that Coach Hatt was the link to TyKo. He's a New England native and before joining Shaka's staff at VCU he worked at Vermont Academy. I imagine he was a familiar with Kolek's AAU program. He also wasn't much of a secret, he was A10 freshman of the year. IIRC, Providence, UConn, UVA and others were all on him too. Definitely didn't expect him to become what he is based on his freshman season at George Mason.
Did Kolek play point in AAU? I couldn't find any stats, and the few blurbs I found talked about his scoring, not his playmaking. He did not play PG in high school nor did he as a Freshman at GM.

So how did Shaka pick him out to become MU's PG?













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brewcity77

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #80 on: January 08, 2023, 08:27:19 AM »
He played for Middlesex Magic.
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YoungMUFan4

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #81 on: January 08, 2023, 08:44:27 AM »
Did Kolek play point in AAU? I couldn't find any stats, and the few blurbs I found talked about his scoring, not his playmaking. He did not play PG in high school nor did he as a Freshman at GM.

So how did Shaka pick him out to become MU's PG?

Great Q--looks like he averaged < 3 assists per game his senior year of HS

https://middlesexmagic.com/2020/01/21/magic-tyler-kolek-commits-to-george-mason/

MU82

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #82 on: January 08, 2023, 08:51:08 AM »
He’ll never score like Travis. Travis was an outstanding shooter. But he’s a better passer, rebounder and defender - that counts for something.

Edit: I didn’t see Elon’s post - a +1 to his would have sufficed.

As Scoop Snoop said, it counts for a lot! Kolek has been great this season, and he's one of our two irreplaceable players.

Tyler is white, he is a guard and he is feisty ... but on the court, he and Diener had one pretty important difference: Travis could totally take over games as a scorer when he had to. And thank goodness, or the 2003 postseason would have been remembered as an epic failure instead of one of the best in Marquette history.

As a pass-first PG who shoots 3s at a .350-ish clip and who makes others on the team better with his ability to see the court and find open teammates, Kolek's offensive game is more similar to junior/senior Tony Miller's than Diener's IMHO.

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Goose

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #83 on: January 08, 2023, 09:02:06 AM »
82

Other than Tony Miller and Kolek both being assist first guys I see zero similarity with the two. TM had the ball in his hands a ton, seldom moved the ball quickly and was a one-man stall. Kolek moves the ball quickly, gives up the ball maybe too quickly in a half court set and is a far more creative scorer. To be honest, I think the Miller comparison is a lazy example or maybe just not knowing ball.

As for Diener comparison, I see one similarity, Kolek might be as mentally tough as Diener. I laugh when comparisons are simply made off being a traditional or a non-traditional player. Travis Diener was an all-time great competitor and that is what I loved the most about him. Kolek might end up being an all-time great MU PG, but he brings his own skills to the game. One thing I know, he is going to be very hard to replace down the road.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #84 on: January 08, 2023, 09:16:08 AM »
I think people are making the Miller comparisons only because of the assist numbers. You put that Tony Miller on this team and he is nowhere near as effective as Kolek. Miller was great for a slow it down Kevin O'Neill rock fight. Kolek fits this offense to a t.
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CountryRoads

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #85 on: January 08, 2023, 09:18:24 AM »
Speaking of comparisons, I watched Dodds show the other day and he made these comparisons:

Chase Ross: jimmy butler
Sean Jones: Dominic James
Ben Gold: Sam hauser

I think Kolek and Diener have a similar moxie and competitiveness to them. Kolek is a “March moment” or two away from being right there, but his story is a long way from over yet.

tower912

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #86 on: January 08, 2023, 09:20:54 AM »
A year ago, I think after the Illinois game, I made a Brunson comparison.  Still not perfectly accurate, comparisons rarely are. But similar in how they control the game.


Ross reminds me of Blue with his size and athleticism
« Last Edit: January 08, 2023, 09:23:23 AM by tower912 »
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #87 on: January 08, 2023, 09:23:21 AM »
Speaking of comparisons, I watched Dodds show the other day and he made these comparisons:

Chase Ross: jimmy butler
Sean Jones: Dominic James
Ben Gold: Sam hauser

I think Kolek and Diener have a similar moxie and competitiveness to them. Kolek is a “March moment” or two away from being right there, but his story is a long way from over yet.

Man, that’s the most fantastic thing I’ve seen posted here all weekend
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #88 on: January 08, 2023, 09:29:16 AM »
Speaking of comparisons, I watched Dodds show the other day and he made these comparisons:

Chase Ross: jimmy butler
Sean Jones: Dominic James
Ben Gold: Sam hauser

I think Kolek and Diener have a similar moxie and competitiveness to them. Kolek is a “March moment” or two away from being right there, but his story is a long way from over yet.


I'm not sure about the Chase / Jimmy comparison. I think Chase is a more bouncy Wes.

And I don't know if Sean is more like Dom or Cordell Henry.

I think I need to see more out of Gold to figure out his comp.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2023, 09:30:42 AM »
He played for Middlesex Magic.
I know, but my cursory search didn't come up with his stats from AAU, just a few blurbs from the Middlesex site when he committed. So I am curious whether he was ever running the point regularly before taking on the role last year.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2023, 09:34:06 AM by TSmith34 »
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tower912

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #90 on: January 08, 2023, 09:33:07 AM »
Who doesn't like a little Middlesex magic?
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #91 on: January 08, 2023, 09:33:14 AM »
82

Other than Tony Miller and Kolek both being assist first guys I see zero similarity with the two. TM had the ball in his hands a ton, seldom moved the ball quickly and was a one-man stall. Kolek moves the ball quickly, gives up the ball maybe too quickly in a half court set and is a far more creative scorer. To be honest, I think the Miller comparison is a lazy example or maybe just not knowing ball.

That's a product of their respective coach's systems.
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Goose

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #92 on: January 08, 2023, 09:36:26 AM »
Fluff

First, I am reluctantly asking, but my excitement for the program has taken away my common sense. How do you evaluate the team and the program as we sit today? You obviously know ball and have seen a lot of MU teams over the years and curious on your thoughts. Is the program on the verge of being over the hump in your opinion?

For the record, I am only admitting that you know ball, other topics we will continue to differ in our opinions.

Goose

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #93 on: January 08, 2023, 09:39:21 AM »
TSmith

No kidding, but we only can compare the systems they played in. I have no idea if Tony Miller was capable of doing what Kolek does because I only remember a guy that walked the ball up the court and dribbled 25 feet from the basket for 25 seconds. For the record, I was very happy with the Miller era, but KO played ugly basketball.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #94 on: January 08, 2023, 09:48:17 AM »

I'm not sure about the Chase / Jimmy comparison. I think Chase is a more bouncy Wes.

And I don't know if Sean is more like Dom or Cordell Henry.

I think I need to see more out of Gold to figure out his comp.

Sam was wildly efficient on offense as a true frosh and played a lot more than Gold has or probably will.  I think Gold will be a better defender but Sam was light years ahead of him at this point of their careers.
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Newsdreams

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #95 on: January 08, 2023, 09:51:31 AM »
Speaking of comparisons, I watched Dodds show the other day and he made these comparisons:

Chase Ross: jimmy butler
Sean Jones: Dominic James
Ben Gold: Sam hauser

I think Kolek and Diener have a similar moxie and competitiveness to them. Kolek is a “March moment” or two away from being right there, but his story is a long way from over yet.
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Elonsmusk

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #96 on: January 08, 2023, 09:54:59 AM »
A year ago, I think after the Illinois game, I made a Brunson comparison.  Still not perfectly accurate, comparisons rarely are. But similar in how they control the game.


Ross reminds me of Blue with his size and athleticism

The Kolek/Brunson comp is interesting in that neither player is overly quick.  Both are big/strong guards.  Both lefties.

I think Chase is more athletic than Vander, and much stronger too.  Someone in a different thread threw out a D-Wade comp for Chase, and said it was of course a stretch.  They pointed out that Chase does have that similar, the game isn't too fast for him pace, that D-Wade had.  Chase never seems sped up, and plays with a high Bball IQ like D-Wade, and Sam Hauser.  8-)

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #97 on: January 08, 2023, 09:57:32 AM »
Fluff

First, I am reluctantly asking, but my excitement for the program has taken away my common sense. How do you evaluate the team and the program as we sit today? You obviously know ball and have seen a lot of MU teams over the years and curious on your thoughts. Is the program on the verge of being over the hump in your opinion?

For the record, I am only admitting that you know ball, other topics we will continue to differ in our opinions.


Oh yeah. I think the program is being built on a model that is going to grow and sustain over time. I have said since Shaka was hired that the way Marquette is going to succeed is not through the transfer market or the one-and-done market, but to build a program similar to what Scott Drew has done at Baylor.  Build the culture. Attract the talent that will thrive in that culture. And eventually that magic will happen.

I am not as excited about THIS team as far as championship contenders at this point. But what Shaka is doing is building a more sustainable model than we have had around here in a long time.  It's going to be more consistent than we had under Crean. And not really built on the JUCO connections we had with Buzz. And to be honest, Buzz was a bit of a prick and I'm not sure the Todd Mayos of that era were players I was all that jazzed about rooting for.

It is also fun and entertaining basketball, where you have the ability to knock off top teams regularly. And at this point, that is really all that I am asking of Marquette basketball. I think a national championship is pretty remote. Even a Final Four is more than my expectations. But they are both sill in the realm of possibilities - and I will enjoy the ride regardless.

On top of that, Shaka & Co all seem to represent what is best about Marquette University.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Uncle Rico

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #98 on: January 08, 2023, 09:58:32 AM »
The Kolek/Brunson comp is interesting in that neither player is overly quick.  Both are big/strong guards.  Both lefties.

I think Chase is more athletic than Vander, and much stronger too.  Someone in a different thread threw out a D-Wade comp for Chase, and said it was of course a stretch.  They pointed out that Chase does have that similar, the game isn't too fast for him pace, that D-Wade had.  Chase never seems sped up, and plays with a high Bball IQ like D-Wade, and Sam Hauser.  8-)

Chase looks like a better shooter than Vander as well
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Hoyas SOTG
« Reply #99 on: January 08, 2023, 10:01:08 AM »
Sam was wildly efficient on offense as a true frosh and played a lot more than Gold has or probably will.  I think Gold will be a better defender but Sam was light years ahead of him at this point of their careers.


Yeah, Gold is the biggest unknown to me. He has skills, but the speed of the game is way faster than he is used to. If he sticks around for four years I think he will be a top contributor, but for this season and next, you probably are best hoping for stretches like he had in the second half yesterday. But if it all comes together? Watch out.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow