MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: wadesworld on January 07, 2023, 02:56:29 PM
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Kolek
Not Shaka for pulling him while leaving Kam in.
Ross with a sweet game and Gold with a nice segment in the second half. He scrapped for some tough boards.
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Kolek
Not Shaka for pulling him while leaving Kam in.
Ross with a sweet game and Gold with a nice segment in the second half. He scrapped for some tough boards.
Kolek simply played the Hoyas like a fiddle
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TKo
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TyKo.
Just an amazing stat line.
7/15/3 with 5 stl on 3/5 shooting
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Kolek all the way!
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It will probably be up right after the OMax picture is taken down.
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Tyler. Fun to watch.
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It’s TKO; but Gold deserves honorable mention for picking himself up off the ground and getting after it in the second half.
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Kolek. Not just the 15 assists, great defense as well.
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"F**k em"
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Kolek
Not Shaka for pulling him while leaving Kam in.
Ross with a sweet game and Gold with a nice segment in the second half. He scrapped for some tough boards.
Was great to see Gold have a big game. Also, that baseline dunk by Ross was awesome! The bench was huge today along with Kolek’s amazing game.
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Kiosk and then Ross and Gold.
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And 0 turnovers.
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Kolek
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The more I see Gold, the more excited I get about his future. His upside is very high and that is a great freshman class.
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Kolek by a mile. Terrific performance all around.
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The more I see Gold, the more excited I get about his future. His upside is very high and that is a great freshman class.
Just going off what we see, it’s clear he needs another off-season bulking up but as the season progresses, it looks like he’s playing with more confidence and continues to play hard even after a bad play
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The more I see Gold, the more excited I get about his future. His upside is very high and that is a great freshman class.
Absolutely. If he improves over this summer the same way our returning guys did he's going to be a solid contributor and a handful as an upperclassmen.
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I think Tyler kolek had the best game today
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Vander
I think he has a chance to be much more than a solid contributor in this system. His stroke is way to good to shot as poorly as has, he can take it to the hole, think he is tough kid and high IQ. He has a chance to be really, really good imo.
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The only thing that was consistent today - Trent Kolek.
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I will chime in and agree about Gold. Kid missed a lot of ball due to COVID and travel restrictions. His arms look like pencils next to Big East bigs. But he has gone in and competed. It hasn't always worked. Freshman in the Big East. It was nice to see him get a payoff today for continuing to fight.
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Kolek. But agreed nice games off the bench for Gold and Ross.
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SOTG every game should be
“Xxx” and Tk
Last game an announcer declared him
The Head of the Snake
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Kolek was absolutely fantastic.
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Tyler Kolek
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Call Gruber.
Marquette needs T-shirts for "F*ck'Em" Night.
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It’s TKO; but Gold deserves honorable mention for picking himself up off the ground and getting after it in the second half.
Agree. Our freshman class of Sean, Chase and Ben is going to be really good. Shaka has said Gold might have the highest ceiling of any player on the roster, but has the most development/work to do.
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Elon
The more I see Gold, I think he will end being the best player of the freshman class down the road. The two guards are really good and will get better and better, but Gold has a ton of skill for a guy so tall.
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Elon
The more I see Gold, I think he will end being the best player of the freshman class down the road. The two guards are really good and will get better and better, but Gold has a ton of skill for a guy so tall.
Is he capable of putting on some muscle Goose? He does have solid potential.
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Is he capable of putting on some muscle Goose? He does have solid potential.
No, he has a rare disease that prevents muscle growth
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Fck 'em Kolek
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Muggsy
I am sure he is going to get bigger and stronger, but hard to tell how much muscle he puts on. Of all of the things I have liked about this season, Gold is high on my list for the future. My guess is we are going to see more and more of him the rest of the way.
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Kolek in a landslide
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No, he has a rare disease that prevents muscle growth
That rare disease has a name...Todd Smith's training program.
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Elon
The more I see Gold, I think he will end being the best player of the freshman class down the road. The two guards are really good and will get better and better, but Gold has a ton of skill for a guy so tall.
He’s got really sneaky athleticism, and a good looking stroke.
The best part of your comment is that I can easily insert the name CHASE ROSS in place of Gold.
The more I see of Chase the more I think he’s subtly one of the best NBA prospects on the team.
His athleticism is elite, it’s already visible that his defense will be elite, and he can shoot.
He’s also got that IT factor. Dare I say he reminds me of a poor man’s Flash.
I know that’s blasphemy, but he has that “lazy energy” and ability for the game that isn’t teachable, he’s a DUDE as Shaka calls him.
It’s a shame that the game is going away from the mid range J and creative mid range shots, because I think that with his athleticism he would be able to score creatively from several spots on the court ala DWade and use his skills to make himself an elite offensive weapon.
On top of that, one of these days Sean Jones will hopefully turn the corner and the game will slow down for him enough for him to be a great college player as well.
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Muggsy
I am sure he is going to get bigger and stronger, but hard to tell how much muscle he puts on. Of all of the things I have liked about this season, Gold is high on my list for the future. My guess is we are going to see more and more of him the rest of the way.
Agreed. I will admit I didn't think much of Gold after early reports. I love all 3 Frosh.
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No, he has a rare disease that prevents muscle growth
He needs to spend the.summer in St. Louis.
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Elon
The more I see Gold, I think he will end being the best player of the freshman class down the road. The two guards are really good and will get better and better, but Gold has a ton of skill for a guy so tall.
It’ll be interesting. I think Chase has a chance to be a star by his junior year.
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It’ll be interesting. I think Chase has a chance to be a star by his junior year.
He’s going to be a dude
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Agreed. I will admit I didn't think much of Gold after early reports. I love all 3 Frosh.
Yeah I have no idea who’s going to be best. They all have different games and roles.
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There will be games going forward where they look like freshmen.
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Always the leading scorer,
so Kam.
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Gold has confidence in his shot...and he's not afraid to mix it up...when he's stronger...he's going to be a player...and MU running a 5-out offense gives teams fits. He is key to that.
Chase is unreal...when it's his turn to be more aggressive on offense...he's going to be a handful. I REALLY like that kid.
I'm not sold on Jones yet. Great kid by all means...he's going to have to compete with Tre Norman for minutes next year. If he can figure out how to finish the possession when he beats his guy off the dribble he'll be much better. His outside shot concerns me as well. Love his attitude, strength, and quickness.
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Kolek was pretty good last season, but I love that he wasn't satisfied with "pretty good." He has improved in every way, and he deserves major kudos for turning himself into one of the better PGs around.
It goes without saying that he also deserves to be this game's stud! (But I said it anyway.)
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The more I see Gold, the more excited I get about his future. His upside is very high and that is a great freshman class.
Kolek for stud.
Couldn’t agree more about Golds upside. The future is bright but I want a deep run this year. We have the personnel to do it and we’re not getting any bulk anytime soon. So why not this year?
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Shooter
The bar keeps going higher in my book. Muggs asked me the other day what I thought the ceiling was for this year and still holding out for a few more games. That said, winning a game in March is checking a box and not the goal anymore. The next few games are extremely big, and not hyperbole big. My hope is the remaining mopes will have changed their mind or checked out on posting on scoop.
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/7e/77/hDJ2dGnF_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/hDJ2dGnF)
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Kolek was pretty good last season, but I love that he wasn't satisfied with "pretty good." He has improved in every way, and he deserves major kudos for turning himself into one of the better PGs around.
It goes without saying that he also deserves to be this game's stud! (But I said it anyway.)
Yup, exactly right.
As you often mentioned Marquette needed better pg play, and kudos to you for saying that it should come from Kolek.
He was good last year, he’s playing great this year. He gets such a big pie of the team that the expectations for him to perform well are so high, and that’s not fair to him.
He’s showing up and playing awesome though, and he looks really comfortable out there, it’s a pleasure to watch
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Tyler, and after today's masterpiece I ran some numbers.
He's at 7.94 apg. If he plays in 32 games (the minimum with a BET game) he's on pace to become only the second Marquette player to crack 250 assists in a season (254 pace).
If Marquette makes the NCAA tournament and manages to win a game there and at MSG, TK is on pace to break Tony Miller's 274 single season record.
If Tyler stays two more years and Marquette averages 36 games per year while maintaining that 7.94 average, he would shatter Miller's career record of 956 (that pace would be 1,045).
If TK did hit 1,045 here, he would be at 1,095 for his career thanks to 50 assists at GMU. That would break Bobby Hurley's NCAA record of 1,076.
I once thought of Miller's assist record as unbreakable, like McIlvaine's blocks. TK has changed that thinking.
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Shooter
The bar keeps going higher in my book. Muggs asked me the other day what I thought the ceiling was for this year and still holding out for a few more games. That said, winning a game in March is checking a box and not the goal anymore. The next few games are extremely big, and not hyperbole big. My hope is the remaining mopes will have changed their mind or checked out on posting on scoop.
Agreed on the upcoming games. Should be fun.
As Shaka keeps saying, this team should only get better. That is a very pleasant thought going forward. I have no reason to doubt him.
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Kolek.
1st player in the last 30 years of Big East play to have 15 Assists and 0 TOs. Easy.
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From a GT discussion board:
"For as fun it must be to play with Kolek it must be equally not as fun to play with Primo."
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It can't be Kolek, I've been informed that SOTG is always the leading scorer ;D
Fu ck em
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Tyler, and after today's masterpiece I ran some numbers.
He's at 7.94 apg. If he plays in 32 games (the minimum with a BET game) he's on pace to become only the second Marquette player to crack 250 assists in a season (254 pace).
If Marquette makes the NCAA tournament and manages to win a game there and at MSG, TK is on pace to break Tony Miller's 274 single season record.
If Tyler stays two more years and Marquette averages 36 games per year while maintaining that 7.94 average, he would shatter Miller's career record of 956 (that pace would be 1,045).
If TK did hit 1,045 here, he would be at 1,095 for his career thanks to 50 assists at GMU. That would break Bobby Hurley's NCAA record of 1,076.
I once thought of Miller's assist record as unbreakable, like McIlvaine's blocks. TK has changed that thinking.
A record once thought to be untouchable. thanks Brew for the info.
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Tyler, and after today's masterpiece I ran some numbers.
He's at 7.94 apg. If he plays in 32 games (the minimum with a BET game) he's on pace to become only the second Marquette player to crack 250 assists in a season (254 pace).
If Marquette makes the NCAA tournament and manages to win a game there and at MSG, TK is on pace to break Tony Miller's 274 single season record.
If Tyler stays two more years and Marquette averages 36 games per year while maintaining that 7.94 average, he would shatter Miller's career record of 956 (that pace would be 1,045).
If TK did hit 1,045 here, he would be at 1,095 for his career thanks to 50 assists at GMU. That would break Bobby Hurley's NCAA record of 1,076.
I once thought of Miller's assist record as unbreakable, like McIlvaine's blocks. TK has changed that thinking.
This is why we pay you the big bucks, good stuff.
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He’s going to be a dude
He’ll never be ‘The Dude’.
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This guy.
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Muggsy
I am sure he is going to get bigger and stronger, but hard to tell how much muscle he puts on. Of all of the things I have liked about this season, Gold is high on my list for the future. My guess is we are going to see more and more of him the rest of the way.
So Shaka has struck Gold down under.
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Tyler, and after today's masterpiece I ran some numbers.
He's at 7.94 apg. If he plays in 32 games (the minimum with a BET game) he's on pace to become only the second Marquette player to crack 250 assists in a season (254 pace).
If Marquette makes the NCAA tournament and manages to win a game there and at MSG, TK is on pace to break Tony Miller's 274 single season record.
If Tyler stays two more years and Marquette averages 36 games per year while maintaining that 7.94 average, he would shatter Miller's career record of 956 (that pace would be 1,045).
If TK did hit 1,045 here, he would be at 1,095 for his career thanks to 50 assists at GMU. That would break Bobby Hurley's NCAA record of 1,076.
I once thought of Miller's assist record as unbreakable, like McIlvaine's blocks. TK has changed that thinking.
Yes , but Hurley set his record over 4 years not 5.
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Yes , but Hurley set his record over 4 years not 5.
Doesn’t matter.
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Yes , but Hurley set his record over 4 years not 5.
Sure, but if Tyler improves, say he gets to 9 apg next year and 10 in 2024-25, and Marquette plays 37 & 38 games instead, his Marquette numbers could blow Hurley away and his 50 at GMU would be incidental.
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Might throw in a 2nd vote for Larry. He brought the energy today!
https://twitter.com/slam_university/status/1611876890414833671?t=UXNMZdFV2mL2Srn0XvTjvQ&s=19
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Love Ross,always in attack mode and plays great D for a frosh
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It can't be Kolek, I've been informed that SOTG is always the leading scorer ;D
Fu ck em
Well said. That’s our motto and we’re sticking to it! F’ ‘Em!
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I pass the SOTG to Tyler Kolek. He has a pretty good game, I mean his had a pretty damn good game. Wait - he had a freaking awesome game all around!!,
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Are the mods still doing SOTG?
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Maybe they were swept up in the Rapture.
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even the Mrs. said Kolek was MVP
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Jop
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The evolution of Scoop’s perception of the freshmen has been interesting.
Before the season, just about all talk was focused on Sean Jones, the quickest guy Shaka’s ever coached. It was only a matter of time before he took Stevie’s spot.
Then Ross had a nice game against the Sisters of the Poor, and folks were over the moon about him.
Now Gold is gonna be best of ‘em all. And he might be … or Ross
might be … or Jones might be.
As many have said, each brings something to the party, and they all contributed in the second half today.
Shaka’s done a nice job bringing them along, that’s for sure.
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Maybe they were swept up in the Rapture.
Pretty sure they’d still be here wondering where everyone was.
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I'd like to hear the recruiting story on Kolek - how Shaka got clued in on him. As I recall the day he signed with MU, Shaka's Instagram posted a picture of Diener.
Yes, some have had fun with the "he reminds me of Diener" schtick, but, Tyler's F*ck 'em quote was Diener energy all the way, and Tyler IMO is a better passer than Travis. Tyler of course is nowhere near the shooter Travis was, but Tyler is more physical and a better defender.
If* Tyler can keep improving his perimeter shot, which I believe he will solely due to his insane work ethic, we very well may see a Diener-esque campaign next season.
Enjoy it Scoopers because Tyler's passing is incredibly special/elite, the likes of which we likely won't see for decades.
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I'd like to hear the recruiting story on Kolek - how Shaka got clued in on him. As I recall the day he signed with MU, Shaka's Instagram posted a picture of Diener.
Yes, some have had fun with the "he reminds me of Diener" schtick, but, Tyler's F*ck 'em quote was Diener energy all the way, and Tyler IMO is a better passer than Travis. Tyler of course is nowhere near the shooter Travis was, but Tyler is more physical and a better defender.
If* Tyler can keep improving his perimeter shot, which I believe he will solely due to his insane work ethic, we very well may see a Diener-esque campaign next season.
Enjoy it Scoopers because Tyler's passing is incredibly special/elite, the likes of which we likely won't see for decades.
He's a wonderful passer and one of our two MVPs, and I'm happy he has worked his rear off to become a fine PG for Marquette ... but he'll remind me of Travis Diener when he hits huge shots and when he wins NCAA tournament games.
Some forget that Wade was bad in our first 2003 NCAAT game and that it was Diener who saved the team ... and then saved us again (along with Novak) in the next round against Mizzou. Diener was 10-17 from 3 in those two games, and we needed every effen one of those 3s. Then, he had 15 assists as we won our next two tourney games to get to the Final Four.
No Marquette player since then has reminded me of Travis Diener. It would be abso-freakin'-lutely wonderful if Kolek ever does.
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I'd like to hear the recruiting story on Kolek - how Shaka got clued in on him. As I recall the day he signed with MU, Shaka's Instagram posted a picture of Diener.
My understanding is that Coach Hatt was the link to TyKo. He's a New England native and before joining Shaka's staff at VCU he worked at Vermont Academy. I imagine he was a familiar with Kolek's AAU program. He also wasn't much of a secret, he was A10 freshman of the year. IIRC, Providence, UConn, UVA and others were all on him too. Definitely didn't expect him to become what he is based on his freshman season at George Mason.
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Tyler, and after today's masterpiece I ran some numbers.
He's at 7.94 apg. If he plays in 32 games (the minimum with a BET game) he's on pace to become only the second Marquette player to crack 250 assists in a season (254 pace).
If Marquette makes the NCAA tournament and manages to win a game there and at MSG, TK is on pace to break Tony Miller's 274 single season record.
If Tyler stays two more years and Marquette averages 36 games per year while maintaining that 7.94 average, he would shatter Miller's career record of 956 (that pace would be 1,045).
If TK did hit 1,045 here, he would be at 1,095 for his career thanks to 50 assists at GMU. That would break Bobby Hurley's NCAA record of 1,076.
I once thought of Miller's assist record as unbreakable, like McIlvaine's blocks. TK has changed that thinking.
Pretty tall order to sustain. Tony's record still looks unbreakable, but if anybody could, likely Kolek
He runs the offense very well and needs to be on the floor. Do think he should shoot more when he drives, but his decisions usually work out.
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He's a wonderful passer and one of our two MVPs, and I'm happy he has worked his rear off to become a fine PG for Marquette ... but he'll remind me of Travis Diener when he hits huge shots and when he wins NCAA tournament games.
Some forget that Wade was bad in our first 2003 NCAAT game and that it was Diener who saved the team ... and then saved us again (along with Novak) in the next round against Mizzou. Diener was 10-17 from 3 in those two games, and we needed every effen one of those 3s. Then, he had 15 assists as we won our next two tourney games to get to the Final Four.
No Marquette player since then has reminded me of Travis Diener. It would be abso-freakin'-lutely wonderful if Kolek ever does.
He’ll never score like Travis. Travis was an outstanding shooter. But he’s a better passer, rebounder and defender - that counts for something.
Edit: I didn’t see Elon’s post - a +1 to his would have sufficed.
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He’ll never score like Travis. Travis was an outstanding shooter. But he’s a better passer, rebounder and defender - that counts for something.
Agree except for the last word. That counts for a LOT.
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the BIG O is all over the place man!
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My understanding is that Coach Hatt was the link to TyKo. He's a New England native and before joining Shaka's staff at VCU he worked at Vermont Academy. I imagine he was a familiar with Kolek's AAU program. He also wasn't much of a secret, he was A10 freshman of the year. IIRC, Providence, UConn, UVA and others were all on him too. Definitely didn't expect him to become what he is based on his freshman season at George Mason.
Did Kolek play point in AAU? I couldn't find any stats, and the few blurbs I found talked about his scoring, not his playmaking. He did not play PG in high school nor did he as a Freshman at GM.
So how did Shaka pick him out to become MU's PG?
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He played for Middlesex Magic.
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Did Kolek play point in AAU? I couldn't find any stats, and the few blurbs I found talked about his scoring, not his playmaking. He did not play PG in high school nor did he as a Freshman at GM.
So how did Shaka pick him out to become MU's PG?
Great Q--looks like he averaged < 3 assists per game his senior year of HS
https://middlesexmagic.com/2020/01/21/magic-tyler-kolek-commits-to-george-mason/
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He’ll never score like Travis. Travis was an outstanding shooter. But he’s a better passer, rebounder and defender - that counts for something.
Edit: I didn’t see Elon’s post - a +1 to his would have sufficed.
As Scoop Snoop said, it counts for a lot! Kolek has been great this season, and he's one of our two irreplaceable players.
Tyler is white, he is a guard and he is feisty ... but on the court, he and Diener had one pretty important difference: Travis could totally take over games as a scorer when he had to. And thank goodness, or the 2003 postseason would have been remembered as an epic failure instead of one of the best in Marquette history.
As a pass-first PG who shoots 3s at a .350-ish clip and who makes others on the team better with his ability to see the court and find open teammates, Kolek's offensive game is more similar to junior/senior Tony Miller's than Diener's IMHO.
And there's no shame in that!
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82
Other than Tony Miller and Kolek both being assist first guys I see zero similarity with the two. TM had the ball in his hands a ton, seldom moved the ball quickly and was a one-man stall. Kolek moves the ball quickly, gives up the ball maybe too quickly in a half court set and is a far more creative scorer. To be honest, I think the Miller comparison is a lazy example or maybe just not knowing ball.
As for Diener comparison, I see one similarity, Kolek might be as mentally tough as Diener. I laugh when comparisons are simply made off being a traditional or a non-traditional player. Travis Diener was an all-time great competitor and that is what I loved the most about him. Kolek might end up being an all-time great MU PG, but he brings his own skills to the game. One thing I know, he is going to be very hard to replace down the road.
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I think people are making the Miller comparisons only because of the assist numbers. You put that Tony Miller on this team and he is nowhere near as effective as Kolek. Miller was great for a slow it down Kevin O'Neill rock fight. Kolek fits this offense to a t.
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Speaking of comparisons, I watched Dodds show the other day and he made these comparisons:
Chase Ross: jimmy butler
Sean Jones: Dominic James
Ben Gold: Sam hauser
I think Kolek and Diener have a similar moxie and competitiveness to them. Kolek is a “March moment” or two away from being right there, but his story is a long way from over yet.
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A year ago, I think after the Illinois game, I made a Brunson comparison. Still not perfectly accurate, comparisons rarely are. But similar in how they control the game.
Ross reminds me of Blue with his size and athleticism
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Speaking of comparisons, I watched Dodds show the other day and he made these comparisons:
Chase Ross: jimmy butler
Sean Jones: Dominic James
Ben Gold: Sam hauser
I think Kolek and Diener have a similar moxie and competitiveness to them. Kolek is a “March moment” or two away from being right there, but his story is a long way from over yet.
Man, that’s the most fantastic thing I’ve seen posted here all weekend
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Speaking of comparisons, I watched Dodds show the other day and he made these comparisons:
Chase Ross: jimmy butler
Sean Jones: Dominic James
Ben Gold: Sam hauser
I think Kolek and Diener have a similar moxie and competitiveness to them. Kolek is a “March moment” or two away from being right there, but his story is a long way from over yet.
I'm not sure about the Chase / Jimmy comparison. I think Chase is a more bouncy Wes.
And I don't know if Sean is more like Dom or Cordell Henry.
I think I need to see more out of Gold to figure out his comp.
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He played for Middlesex Magic.
I know, but my cursory search didn't come up with his stats from AAU, just a few blurbs from the Middlesex site when he committed. So I am curious whether he was ever running the point regularly before taking on the role last year.
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Who doesn't like a little Middlesex magic?
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82
Other than Tony Miller and Kolek both being assist first guys I see zero similarity with the two. TM had the ball in his hands a ton, seldom moved the ball quickly and was a one-man stall. Kolek moves the ball quickly, gives up the ball maybe too quickly in a half court set and is a far more creative scorer. To be honest, I think the Miller comparison is a lazy example or maybe just not knowing ball.
That's a product of their respective coach's systems.
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Fluff
First, I am reluctantly asking, but my excitement for the program has taken away my common sense. How do you evaluate the team and the program as we sit today? You obviously know ball and have seen a lot of MU teams over the years and curious on your thoughts. Is the program on the verge of being over the hump in your opinion?
For the record, I am only admitting that you know ball, other topics we will continue to differ in our opinions.
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TSmith
No kidding, but we only can compare the systems they played in. I have no idea if Tony Miller was capable of doing what Kolek does because I only remember a guy that walked the ball up the court and dribbled 25 feet from the basket for 25 seconds. For the record, I was very happy with the Miller era, but KO played ugly basketball.
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I'm not sure about the Chase / Jimmy comparison. I think Chase is a more bouncy Wes.
And I don't know if Sean is more like Dom or Cordell Henry.
I think I need to see more out of Gold to figure out his comp.
Sam was wildly efficient on offense as a true frosh and played a lot more than Gold has or probably will. I think Gold will be a better defender but Sam was light years ahead of him at this point of their careers.
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Speaking of comparisons, I watched Dodds show the other day and he made these comparisons:
Chase Ross: jimmy butler
Sean Jones: Dominic James
Ben Gold: Sam hauser
I think Kolek and Diener have a similar moxie and competitiveness to them. Kolek is a “March moment” or two away from being right there, but his story is a long way from over yet.
No blender?
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A year ago, I think after the Illinois game, I made a Brunson comparison. Still not perfectly accurate, comparisons rarely are. But similar in how they control the game.
Ross reminds me of Blue with his size and athleticism
The Kolek/Brunson comp is interesting in that neither player is overly quick. Both are big/strong guards. Both lefties.
I think Chase is more athletic than Vander, and much stronger too. Someone in a different thread threw out a D-Wade comp for Chase, and said it was of course a stretch. They pointed out that Chase does have that similar, the game isn't too fast for him pace, that D-Wade had. Chase never seems sped up, and plays with a high Bball IQ like D-Wade, and Sam Hauser. 8-)
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Fluff
First, I am reluctantly asking, but my excitement for the program has taken away my common sense. How do you evaluate the team and the program as we sit today? You obviously know ball and have seen a lot of MU teams over the years and curious on your thoughts. Is the program on the verge of being over the hump in your opinion?
For the record, I am only admitting that you know ball, other topics we will continue to differ in our opinions.
Oh yeah. I think the program is being built on a model that is going to grow and sustain over time. I have said since Shaka was hired that the way Marquette is going to succeed is not through the transfer market or the one-and-done market, but to build a program similar to what Scott Drew has done at Baylor. Build the culture. Attract the talent that will thrive in that culture. And eventually that magic will happen.
I am not as excited about THIS team as far as championship contenders at this point. But what Shaka is doing is building a more sustainable model than we have had around here in a long time. It's going to be more consistent than we had under Crean. And not really built on the JUCO connections we had with Buzz. And to be honest, Buzz was a bit of a prick and I'm not sure the Todd Mayos of that era were players I was all that jazzed about rooting for.
It is also fun and entertaining basketball, where you have the ability to knock off top teams regularly. And at this point, that is really all that I am asking of Marquette basketball. I think a national championship is pretty remote. Even a Final Four is more than my expectations. But they are both sill in the realm of possibilities - and I will enjoy the ride regardless.
On top of that, Shaka & Co all seem to represent what is best about Marquette University.
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The Kolek/Brunson comp is interesting in that neither player is overly quick. Both are big/strong guards. Both lefties.
I think Chase is more athletic than Vander, and much stronger too. Someone in a different thread threw out a D-Wade comp for Chase, and said it was of course a stretch. They pointed out that Chase does have that similar, the game isn't too fast for him pace, that D-Wade had. Chase never seems sped up, and plays with a high Bball IQ like D-Wade, and Sam Hauser. 8-)
Chase looks like a better shooter than Vander as well
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Sam was wildly efficient on offense as a true frosh and played a lot more than Gold has or probably will. I think Gold will be a better defender but Sam was light years ahead of him at this point of their careers.
Yeah, Gold is the biggest unknown to me. He has skills, but the speed of the game is way faster than he is used to. If he sticks around for four years I think he will be a top contributor, but for this season and next, you probably are best hoping for stretches like he had in the second half yesterday. But if it all comes together? Watch out.
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Fluff
I am in agreement on this year's team not being a championship team, but let's see what happens. I agree that this model can continue to grow and be sustained, and Shaka is a great representative of MU and that is important to me. As for winning a NCAA championship, I think that is something the program can grow into overtime and it takes luck, a lot of luck. IMO, this era of MU has the best chance to have success for the long haul and anxious to see how much success.
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Fluff
I am in agreement on this year's team not being a championship team, but let's see what happens. I agree that this model can continue to grow and be sustained, and Shaka is a great representative of MU and that is important to me. As for winning a NCAA championship, I think that is something the program can grow into overtime and it takes luck, a lot of luck. IMO, this era of MU has the best chance to have success for the long haul and anxious to see how much success.
If Gonzaga can constantly compete for national championships, if Villanova can have a decade like they did, then Marquette can. As you say, there are a lot of factors at play. The biggest thing Marquette needs is coaching stability and they’ve got the guy like the Zags and Nova did
Oh, I’m sure if he has a deep run this year or next and big jobs open, he’s name will get bandied about but this is the fit for him
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Chase looks like a better shooter than Vander as well
I loved Vander Blue for many reasons.
I don’t even care as much about the UW v MU rivalry as most here, since I’m an Illinois guy and didn’t grow up with it, but I loved that he was a Madison kid that chose Marquette.
His defense from the jump was just amazing. I loved that he created extra possessions with defense and hustle plays, I was all in from the start, but most of my buddies didn’t really care for him, and I feel like he didn’t really get his due from the fanbase.
I felt very vindicated when his offense finally caught up- he became a very good scorer and guided Marquette to its only BE title and an amazing tourney run, and for that I will always be grateful.
I’ve got nothing to say about the personal stuff and leaving early.
If Chase can one day become the scorer/finisher Vander Blue became in that BE title season then he will play in the NBA, no question in my mind.
I really hope he does.
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He's a wonderful passer and one of our two MVPs, and I'm happy he has worked his rear off to become a fine PG for Marquette ... but he'll remind me of Travis Diener when he hits huge shots and when he wins NCAA tournament games.
Some forget that Wade was bad in our first 2003 NCAAT game and that it was Diener who saved the team ... and then saved us again (along with Novak) in the next round against Mizzou. Diener was 10-17 from 3 in those two games, and we needed every effen one of those 3s. Then, he had 15 assists as we won our next two tourney games to get to the Final Four.
No Marquette player since then has reminded me of Travis Diener. It would be abso-freakin'-lutely wonderful if Kolek ever does.
Who is the other of the two MVPs?
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Oso
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I loved Vander Blue for many reasons.
I don’t even care as much about the UW v MU rivalry as most here, since I’m an Illinois guy and didn’t grow up with it, but I loved that he was a Madison kid that chose Marquette.
His defense from the jump was just amazing. I loved that he created extra possessions with defense and hustle plays, I was all in from the start, but most of my buddies didn’t really care for him, and I feel like he didn’t really get his due from the fanbase.
I felt very vindicated when his offense finally caught up- he became a very good scorer and guided Marquette to its only BE title and an amazing tourney run, and for that I will always be grateful.
I’ve got nothing to say about the personal stuff and leaving early.
If Chase can one day become the scorer/finisher Vander Blue became in that BE title season then he will play in the NBA, no question in my mind.
I really hope he does.
Agree on all those points. What Vander lacked his first two years offensively, he made up with rebounding and defense. I just think Chase will be a better offensive player than him. As for the defense, well, that I don’t expect but that’s ok.
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TSmith
No kidding, but we only can compare the systems they played in. I have no idea if Tony Miller was capable of doing what Kolek does because I only remember a guy that walked the ball up the court and dribbled 25 feet from the basket for 25 seconds. For the record, I was very happy with the Miller era, but KO played ugly basketball.
They are being compared because it's likely they'll end up as the two most prolific assist guys in MU history. Of course they play/played different styles, because those are/were their coachs' systems. It isn't a lazy comparison unless you are of the opinion that no one who played different styles can be compared.
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TSmith
If the comparison is simply off stats, OK. I thought people were comparing the player, not just stats.
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Speaking of comparisons, I watched Dodds show the other day and he made these comparisons:
Chase Ross: jimmy butler
Sean Jones: Dominic James
Ben Gold: Sam hauser
I think the Jones/James and Gold/Hauser comparisons are choices of convenience, but Chase screams first year Jimmy. I made the same comparison in a chat the other day. Has the length and athleticism to be a stud, and very clearly an NBA player. He has to the moon upside.
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Speaking of comparisons, I watched Dodds show the other day and he made these comparisons:
Chase Ross: jimmy butler
Sean Jones: Dominic James
Ben Gold: Sam hauser
I think Kolek and Diener have a similar moxie and competitiveness to them. Kolek is a “March moment” or two away from being right there, but his story is a long way from over yet.
Anyone end up in a blender??
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82
Other than Tony Miller and Kolek both being assist first guys I see zero similarity with the two. TM had the ball in his hands a ton, seldom moved the ball quickly and was a one-man stall. Kolek moves the ball quickly, gives up the ball maybe too quickly in a half court set and is a far more creative scorer. To be honest, I think the Miller comparison is a lazy example or maybe just not knowing ball.
As for Diener comparison, I see one similarity, Kolek might be as mentally tough as Diener. I laugh when comparisons are simply made off being a traditional or a non-traditional player. Travis Diener was an all-time great competitor and that is what I loved the most about him. Kolek might end up being an all-time great MU PG, but he brings his own skills to the game. One thing I know, he is going to be very hard to replace down the road.
I defer to your memory of Tony Miller's skill set, and yes, I was looking at their pass-first attitudes rather than their styles of play. We are in agreement about Kolek/Diener.
I do get a kick of you and a few others being the arbiters of which Scoopers "know ball," especially when one of the supposed ball-knowers was saying the Bucks should be blown up about 5 minutes before they won the NBA title, and another of the alleged ball-knowers hasn't written an intelligible post on Scoop in 10 years.
For the record, Goose, I think you know ball. Not that I'm an arbiter of it, either.
A year ago, I think after the Illinois game, I made a Brunson comparison. Still not perfectly accurate, comparisons rarely are. But similar in how they control the game.
I remember that now, tower. I liked that comparison then, and I like it even more now. As you said, not perfect, but definitely can see it, though the eye test tells me our guy is a better passer.
But then again, what do either of us know? Probably not ball.
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Brunson was a much more complete scorer- an outstanding finisher and a post up scorer, and TKo is neither of those things. Brunson was a career 39% 3 point shooter- TKo could get there. TKo is a more complete and a much higher volume passer/assist man. Both are leaders.
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Brunson was a much more complete scorer- an outstanding finisher and a post up scorer, and TKo is neither of those things. Brunson was a career 39% 3 point shooter- TKo could get there. TKo is a more complete and a much higher volume passer/assist man. Both are leaders.
Reasonable.
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82
There is a common bond amongst the meat summit tribe and that is we all have been MU fans for a long time, and we became the MS tribe because of that bond. Granted, we definitely have a lot of other common interests, but MU basketball is how it started. I think many on here, you included, dismiss knowledge of the game based off of your feelings on a specific poster. Hell, I have responded or reached out to Fluff twice in nearly year for a reason. That said, one time was to hear his thoughts on the program because he knows basketball, and more specifically, MU basketball.
I think I have a pretty good understanding of the game and only recently started to adjust my thinking around the current state of the game. There are guys on here, several MS guys and others, that know the game as well. I would put myself in between NolongerWarrior and Dr. James Naismith when graded my knowledge of the game. But I always try and offer thought out comments vs. trying to be an expert.
For the record, I'll take Tyler Kolek in any era of MU basketball.
For the record #2, you know ball but you to try and play both sides of the discussion on a frequent basis, imo.
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It's all good, Goose.
My last comment on this topic, for now anyway, is that lots of Scoopers "know ball," even if some don't get the MS Seal of Approval. And aside from Madison-slurping twats like nolonger, we all love Marquette basketball.
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TSmith
No kidding, but we only can compare the systems they played in. I have no idea if Tony Miller was capable of doing what Kolek does because I only remember a guy that walked the ball up the court and dribbled 25 feet from the basket for 25 seconds. For the record, I was very happy with the Miller era, but KO played ugly basketball.
Its funny, but I always figured Tony Miller's assist number were all the more remarkable given the speed at which KO's teams played vs the speed at which Shaka's teams played. But the current team averages less the 2 FGM/G more that Miller's Warriors. I really liked that kid. KO's teams got good the moment he arrived.
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Its funny, but I always figured Tony Miller's assist number were all the more remarkable given the speed at which KO's teams played vs the speed at which Shaka's teams played. But the current team averages less the 2 FGM/G more that Miller's Warriors. I really liked that kid. KO's teams got good the moment he arrived.
To me, Tony Miller was the absolute most essential recruit of KO's tenure. Watching poor Mark Anglavar being asked to play PG and break the press the year before was painful (and unfair to Mark, who was a pretty good SG).
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Its funny, but I always figured Tony Miller's assist number were all the more remarkable given the speed at which KO's teams played vs the speed at which Shaka's teams played. But the current team averages less the 2 FGM/G more that Miller's Warriors. I really liked that kid. KO's teams got good the moment he arrived.
Tony Miller also had the benefit of making entry passes to a 7'1 NBA type center who did all of his scoring around the rim. Had to help his assist numbers.
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Tony Miller also had the benefit of making entry passes to a 7'1 NBA type center who did all of his scoring around the rim. Had to help his assist numbers.
Jim McIlvaine's career at Marquette has gotten so much better in the years since he graduated it is amazing.
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Jim McIlvaine's career at Marquette has gotten so much better in the years since he graduated it is amazing.
Funny to see this. Just yesterday, my brother & sister in law (who are friends with Jim) were saying what a great player he was. I said, "no, he is a very rich ex-player".
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Big fan of Mac, but realistic in regards to his talent level. I think he was a better investor with his NBA money than he was a player.
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Who is the other of the two MVPs?
We have two players that when either leaves the floor, there's almost always a noticeable fall-off in our play, Kolek and Oso.
In the second half of the last game, it was nice to see their backups actually help stretch the lead. That's not been the norm.
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We have two players that when either leaves the floor, there's almost always a noticeable fall-off in our play, Kolek and Oso.
In the second half of the last game, it was nice to see their backups actually help stretch the lead. That's not been the norm.
I honestly didn’t know what the answer would be, and there’s one of the biggest strengths of this team.
I bet if we started a poll with “who are this teams two best players?” we would get some mixed and interesting results.
Thing is, you are right about the drop off when TyKo or Oso leave the court.
Other thing is, Kam Jones could be more likely a first team BE player than both.
One more thing is that imo this season has shown that OMax has to play well for Marquette to win the game.
So, here we are. Great discussion to have when coming into the season we did not know if any of the four were elite BE players.
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You're right, V, talking about which of our really good players are the really goodest IS a great discussion to have!
I'll disagree now that Kam would get more all-conference honors than Oso or Kolek, but obviously we'll see at the end.
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It's all good, Goose.
My last comment on this topic, for now anyway, is that lots of Scoopers "know ball," even if some don't get the MS Seal of Approval. And aside from Madison-slurping twats like nolonger, we all love Marquette basketball.
Mike
It’s true that a lot of Scoopers “know ball”. But some that “know ball” have trouble seeing the forest for the trees. Anyone who didn’t see early on that Buzz was the goods and that Shaka was the goods without the “Buzz baggage”missed the big picture. Same with those who clung for years to the belief that Wojo could get it done when it was obvious he couldn’t.
I don’t know what Kolek’s 3rd option off the high pick and roll is - but I’m sure some here do. In that sense I guess they “know ball” much better than me. But I know a well coached/poorly coached team when I see them. So I guess there are different definitions of what it means to “know ball”.
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My understanding is that Coach Hatt was the link to TyKo. He's a New England native and before joining Shaka's staff at VCU he worked at Vermont Academy. I imagine he was a familiar with Kolek's AAU program. He also wasn't much of a secret, he was A10 freshman of the year. IIRC, Providence, UConn, UVA and others were all on him too. Definitely didn't expect him to become what he is based on his freshman season at George Mason.
Following up on this post. Vermont Academy is a NEPSAC AAA school. There's also a AA and A level.
Some of the AA schools include:
St. George's (Kolek's alma mater)
Worcester Academy (Tre Norman's school)
Cushing Academy (Chase Ross's alma mater)
Brimmer and May (Bryce Dortch's school)
Safe to say, Coach Hatt is really working those NEPSAC connections.
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It can't be Kolek, I've been informed that SOTG is always the leading scorer ;D
Fu ck em
9 out of 10
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It can't be Kolek, I've been informed that SOTG is always the leading scorer ;D
Fu ck em
Somewhat interesting note:
Kam is the team's leading scorer (by a few ppg), but he has not been the SotG this year.