Shooting Issues

[MuggsyB]

Is it that simple?  I thought we got plenty of good looks.  If you don't have good shooters what's the countermove or can you get better in this area?  It seems to me if your shooting is subpar you have to get to the FT line to score enough. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

They don't have natural shooters, but their offense certainly improves when they work it from the inside out instead of passing around the perimeter. IMO they have to break down the defense more like they did in the second half.

[tower912]

Is it that simple?  I thought we got plenty of good looks.  If you don't have good shooters what's the countermove or can you get better in this area?  It seems to me if your shooting is subpar you have to get to the FT line to score enough.

MU is playing good defense (coaching).  The offensive scheme is generating good looks. (coaching)   The players are not making the shots.   

Last year, it took time for the team to figure out what a good shot is and how to create them for each other.   I think this team will continue to generate good looks.   They cannot be a great team until they make them.

[rgoode57]

The offense stagnated in the first half last night because there was way too much dribbling around the perimeter, not enough ball movement, and virtually no paint game. As a result, the offense had no rhythm at all and deteriorated quickly. The MSU defense had something to do with that but not everything. Truth is, MSU looks like a pretty good team but certainly not a great one. They may not even be in the top half of the SEC. When you have the shooting and rebounding challenges that we have, you have to play very smart. We are not doing that yet.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The offense stagnated in the first half last night because there was way too much dribbling around the perimeter, not enough ball movement, and virtually no paint game. As a result, the offense had no rhythm at all and deteriorated quickly. The MSU defense had something to do with that but not everything. Truth is, MSU looks like a pretty good team but certainly not a great one. They may not even be in the top half of the SEC. When you have the shooting and rebounding challenges that we have, you have to play very smart. We are not doing that yet.

Yep, and there is no greater way to teach that than through experience.

[MuggsyB]

The offense stagnated in the first half last night because there was way too much dribbling around the perimeter, not enough ball movement, and virtually no paint game. As a result, the offense had no rhythm at all and deteriorated quickly. The MSU defense had something to do with that but not everything. Truth is, MSU looks like a pretty good team but certainly not a great one. They may not even be in the top half of the SEC. When you have the shooting and rebounding challenges that we have, you have to play very smart. We are not doing that yet.

I've mentioned before that notwithstanding Kolek our passing off the bounce, once we go downhill, is not good.  I'd like to think we can find a way to execute once we get into the paint beyond potential made kick-outs and scoring in traffic.  Oso is a skilled passer.  He had a tough game last night but is capable scoring the ball.  Can we not use him more in the wide, high, or low post?  I also think we need to take some shots in the paint but before we get to the rim.  That 6-10 footer is there, elevate and knock that down every so often.  Lastly, every one of our players on the floor have to be a threat to score.  I don't think Kam dominating FGA's is the answer to our offensive woes.  Move the basketball, find the open man, have better overall shot distribution and diversification in our offense.  Mitchell, O-Max, and Oso should get shot attempts when they are on the floor.  Especially Stevie going downhill.  We're going to have to do damage collectively imo. 

[tower912]

Yes, the team is better when it moves and moves the ball.
Yes, TK is the pg because he moves the ball the best after getting into the lane.
Yes, Oso passes well from the different spots.
Yes, it is a great weapon when Oso makes that little 6 ft push shot.
Yes, Kam chucking  from 30 hurts the offense.

You sound exactly like Shaka.

[rocky_warrior]

You sound exactly like Shaka.

I thought Shaka had the best press conferences...you're telling me it's actually Muggsy?

[MuggsyB]

Yes, the team is better when it moves and moves the ball.
Yes, TK is the pg because he moves the ball the best after getting into the lane.
Yes, Oso passes well from the different spots.
Yes, it is a great weapon when Oso makes that little 6 ft push shot.
Yes, Kam chucking  from 30 hurts the offense.

You sound exactly like Shaka.

Well if that's what Shaka said I approve.  Perhaps we'll wake up Tower. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Last season Marquette shot 31.5% from three in non-conference play. They ended up shooting 37% from three in Big East play.

We're shooting 31% from three this season. I'm very confident that this number will improve as the season goes on.

Looking at individual players here are our three point shooting numbers:
Kolek: 41.2%  (17 attempts)
Joplin: 40.6% (32 attempts)
Mitchell: 38.5% (13 attempts)
O-Max: 35.7% (14 attempts)
Ross: 30% (10 attempts)
Kam: 25.6% (43 attempts)
Sean: 18.2% (11 attempts)
Gold: 18.2% (11 attempts)
Walk Ons 0% (3 attempts)
Wrightsil: 0% (1 attempt)

The only significant reason our season 3P% is as low as it is is because of Kam shooting 25.6% on 43 attempts (11 more than any other player). Kam shot 39.2% last season. He is not going to continue to shoot this poorly. If he raises that to even 33%, we are going to be a fine three point shooting team. Add in a little better shooting from Sean and Gold and we could even be solid.

That being said, Shaka has to reign in Kam. The moon shots are getting a little ridiculous at this point.

[wadesworld]

Last season Marquette shot 31.5% from three in non-conference play. They ended up shooting 37% from three in Big East play.

We're shooting 31% from three this season. I'm very confident that this number will improve as the season goes on.

Looking at individual players here are our three point shooting numbers:
Kolek: 41.2%  (17 attempts)
Joplin: 40.6% (32 attempts)
Mitchell: 38.5% (13 attempts)
O-Max: 35.7% (14 attempts)
Ross: 30% (10 attempts)
Kam: 25.6% (43 attempts)
Sean: 18.2% (11 attempts)
Gold: 18.2% (11 attempts)
Walk Ons 0% (3 attempts)
Wrightsil: 0% (1 attempt)

The only significant reason our season 3P% is as low as it is is because of Kam shooting 25.6% on 43 attempts (11 more than any other player). Kam shot 39.2% last season. He is not going to continue to shoot this poorly. If he raises that to even 33%, we are going to be a fine three point shooting team. Add in a little better shooting from Sean and Gold and we could even be solid.

That being said, Shaka has to reign in Kam. The moon shots are getting a little ridiculous at this point.

I would be absolutely shocked if Kolek and Mitchell shoot around 40% and OMax shoots over 35%.  I don't think Joplin will end up over 40% either, but that's the one I could at least conceive.

[MuggsyB]

Last season Marquette shot 31.5% from three in non-conference play. They ended up shooting 37% from three in Big East play.

We're shooting 31% from three this season. I'm very confident that this number will improve as the season goes on.

Looking at individual players here are our three point shooting numbers:
Kolek: 41.2%  (17 attempts)
Joplin: 40.6% (32 attempts)
Mitchell: 38.5% (13 attempts)
O-Max: 35.7% (14 attempts)
Ross: 30% (10 attempts)
Kam: 25.6% (43 attempts)
Sean: 18.2% (11 attempts)
Gold: 18.2% (11 attempts)
Walk Ons 0% (3 attempts)
Wrightsil: 0% (1 attempt)

The only significant reason our season 3P% is as low as it is is because of Kam shooting 25.6% on 43 attempts (11 more than any other player). Kam shot 39.2% last season. He is not going to continue to shoot this poorly. If he raises that to even 33%, we are going to be a fine three point shooting team. Add in a little better shooting from Sean and Gold and we could even be solid.

That being said, Shaka has to reign in Kam. The moon shots are getting a little ridiculous at this point.

I hope you're right.   Would you reign Kam in by sitting him immediately after a 35 foot bomb?

[Uncle Rico]

I hope you're right.   Would you reign Kam in by sitting him immediately after a 35 foot bomb?

No

[wadesworld]

I hope you're right.   Would you reign Kam in by sitting him immediately after a 35 foot bomb?

Would the Hausers write a letter if they were on the roster this year?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I would be absolutely shocked if Kolek and Mitchell shoot around 40% and OMax shoots over 35%.  I don't think Joplin will end up over 40% either, but that's the one I could at least conceive.

You do know that after November of last season, O-Max shot 36.2% from 3, right?

I think Kolek and O-Max end up above 37%. Mitchell I think will come down to around 33%. Jop I think will come down to closer to 35%. But I think Kam ends up around 37% with by far the most attempts. Gold I think will eventually get to above 30% but I'm not sure how many attempts he will get. Sean and Ross I'm not sure on.

[wadesworld]

You do know that after November of last season, O-Max shot 36.2% from 3, right?

I think Kolek and O-Max end up above 37%. Mitchell I think will come down to around 33%. Jop I think will come down to closer to 35%. But I think Kam ends up around 37% with by far the most attempts. Gold I think will eventually get to above 30% but I'm not sure how many attempts he will get. Sean and Ross I'm not sure on.

Right.  And then he finished at 31%.  When the competition gets tougher, it's tougher to get open looks.

I'm hoping for 33% from Kolek and OMax, 35% from Stevie (though I don't think he'll shoot many), 38% from Joplin, 35% from Kam (I think he's going to be taking tough shots all year), and I hope Sean starts getting enough time to shoot more.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I hope you're right.   Would you reign Kam in by sitting him immediately after a 35 foot bomb?

Depends on context. In the first half of the shot clock? Yeah, I think I would.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Right.  And then he finished at 31%.  When the competition gets tougher, it's tougher to get open looks.

I said after November of last season. So 1 cupcake, @Wisconsin, @Kansas State, UCLA and all of Big East play and postseason he shot 36.2% from three. He shot 15% against three cupcakes, Illinois, Ole Miss, West Virginia, and St. Bonaventure which dragged his season average down to 31%. So no, competition got tougher and despite that, he shot significantly better.

I'm hoping for 33% from Kolek and OMax, 35% from Stevie (though I don't think he'll shoot many), 38% from Joplin, 35% from Kam (I think he's going to be taking tough shots all year), and I hope Sean starts getting enough time to shoot more.

You do know that if your predictions end up being true that we would probably be shooting somewhere in the realm of 34-35% as team which is solid right?

[wadesworld]

I said after November of last season. So 1 cupcake, @Wisconsin, @Kansas State, UCLA and all of Big East play and postseason he shot 36.2% from three. He shot 15% against three cupcakes, Illinois, Ole Miss, West Virginia, and St. Bonaventure which dragged his season average down to 31%. So no, competition got tougher and despite that, he shot significantly better.

You do know that if your predictions end up being true that we would probably be shooting somewhere in the realm of 34-35% as team which is solid right?

Got it.  Maybe there's something there.  It's not a smooth jumper from my eyes, but we'll see if he has it in him.

I do know that.  That's why I HOPE for those numbers.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Got it.  Maybe there's something there.  It's not a smooth jumper from my eyes, but we'll see if he has it in him.

And that's interesting because O-Max' jumper looks smooth to me. I'd rank his as top 3 on the team with Kolek and Kam. Mitchell and Joplin are the ones I'm not sure about.

[Newsdreams]

And that's interesting because O-Max' jumper looks smooth to me. I'd rank his as top 3 on the team with Kolek and Kam. Mitchell and Joplin are the ones I'm not sure about.

Seen these guy twice now and Mitchell looks tentative shooting the 3, Jop looks confident but not consistent.

[swoopem]

I like Jop’s shot and trust him to shoot but his release is really slow. It seems like the defense is able to close out on him much quicker than they should and then he has to shoot over them. That should be fixable

[Goose]

I think Omax has a smooth shot and only Kam looks smoother to me. I think they need to find way to get him in the flow early in the game and slow him down. His shot is not the problem, IMO.

[Milkshakes]

The three point shooting would be so much better if this team (other than TK) made any effort whatsoever to get into the paint.  This is my one frustration with Shaka. I’d tell Kam and David that they are forbidden to take a 3 point shot until they have made two layups or gotten to the line twice.

Remember when we used to make more free throws than the other team attempted.  The opposite is true for this team. 

I’d really think that paint touches has to be an emphasis going forward.  Start tracking that with the deflections.

[wadesworld]

And that's interesting because O-Max' jumper looks smooth to me. I'd rank his as top 3 on the team with Kolek and Kam. Mitchell and Joplin are the ones I'm not sure about.

Kolek's form is yuck.  Very herky jerky, as is OMax's.  Kam's is smooth, Mitchell's and Joplin's are very smooth when they have time to get set, but both take a very long time to get off.

[MU82]

I like Jop’s shot and trust him to shoot but his release is really slow. It seems like the defense is able to close out on him much quicker than they should and then he has to shoot over them. That should be fixable

As long as it's not glacially slow, you usually can get away with that just fine in college. Sam had a very slow release but he positioned himself well and knew when to launch. I see a lot of slow releases in college, relative to the quick releases by most NBA marksmen, and they can be very effective.

Kolek's form is yuck.  Very herky jerky, as is OMax's.  Kam's is smooth, Mitchell's and Joplin's are very smooth when they have time to get set, but both take a very long time to get off.

Agree about all but Mitchell. He releases the ball too low and sometimes looks like he's pushing it instead of shooting it.

Kolek's form is better than last year, so I'd go better than "yucky," but it's still nowhere near smooth.

[wadesworld]

As long as it's not glacially slow, you usually can get away with that just fine in college. Sam had a very slow release but he positioned himself well and knew when to launch. I see a lot of slow releases in college, relative to the quick releases by most NBA marksmen, and they can be very effective.

Agree about all but Mitchell. He releases the ball too low and sometimes looks like he's pushing it instead of shooting it.

Kolek's form is better than last year, so I'd go better than "yucky," but it's still nowhere near smooth.

Good point on Stevie's release being low.  I'm a big believer in balance being the most important thing for shooters, and to me Stevie, when he has time to get set, has good balance and not a lot of kick or movement in the lower body.  But he does have a low release point.  There's a lot of leg twitching from Kolek and OMax that I see.  It's a lot less repeatable.

[muwarrior69]

Is it that simple?  I thought we got plenty of good looks.  If you don't have good shooters what's the countermove or can you get better in this area?  It seems to me if your shooting is subpar you have to get to the FT line to score enough.

Nah! Just make the diameter of the basket wider when we're on offense.

[MUfan12]

Stevie shoots the ball on the way up. Until that gets corrected I dont know if he'll ever be a reliable shooter.

OMax's shot looks fine to me. Kolek's feet still point too far right. Doesn't need to be dead square but they're way to one side. Jop has a nice release, a little slow but nice and high.

Kam has the funky one to me. It's a bit of a push and he's got some weird guide hand action. I think that's partially why he runs so hot and cold.

[MuggsyB]

Stevie shoots the ball on the way up. Until that gets corrected I dont know if he'll ever be a reliable shooter.

OMax's shot looks fine to me. Kolek's feet still point too far right. Doesn't need to be dead square but they're way to one side. Jop has a nice release, a little slow but nice and high.

Kam has the funky one to me. It's a bit of a push and he's got some weird guide hand action. I think that's partially why he runs so hot and cold.

Doesn't Steph Curry shoot on the way up? 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I see we've reached the point of the season where every Scooper is a shooting coach.

[MU82]

They don't have natural shooters, but their offense certainly improves when they work it from the inside out instead of passing around the perimeter. IMO they have to break down the defense more like they did in the second half.

I see we've reached the point of the season where every Scooper is an offensive coordinator. 

[tower912]

Well past the point where every scooper is offensive.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I see we've reached the point of the season where every Scooper is an offensive coordinator. 

Nope. Read again.

[Newsdreams]

Well past the point where every scooper is offensive.

MOPE

[4everwarriors]

Seams ta bee occurin' moore 'round Wells ta State St., hey?

[Newsdreams]

Seams ta bee occurin' moore 'round Wells ta State St., hey?

No seems to happen mostly up your a$$

[MU82]

Seams ta bee occurin' moore 'round Wells ta State St., hey?

Explains why Marquette’s enrollment is down to 43.

People are saying the university might have to close.

[Dr. Blackheart]

No seems to happen mostly up your a$$

I hate no see'ems in Florida. And yes, they get up there.

[BallBoy]

The reason MU struggled was interior defense of Mississippi state. Though MU might have gotten into the lane, once there Smith, Jeffries and McNair made it near impossible for MU guards to get a shot up which forced the ball to the parameter. MU was then taking a rushed or contested three.

Secondarily was MU’s bad shot selection. Jones and Joplin both made bad decisions. Jones was trying his best Steph Curry impersonation.

One of the final reasons MU struggled was as Miss St was closing out MU would take their eyes off the basket while shooting to look at the player coming at them especially OMax.

All of this shows in the stat lines. MU shot 8 FTs because they weren’t getting into the lane to get fouled. They shot 28 3pt on 51 attempts. That means they shot more threes than 2pt.

Because MU couldn’t get the ball over Smith it allowed Miss States guards to play the 3pt line. MU needed to work the mid-range game from 5-10ft but they never did.

Kolek time and time again got too deep.

Jones was 2 for 10 from 3.  Mostly shooting from Tampa.

Joplin was 0-4.   

Only reason this was close was because of MU’s defense and pressure and Miss St also couldn’t really shoot. Two of their guards had zero spin on the ball.

[Newsdreams]

I hate no see'ems in Florida. And yes, they get up there.

You get it

[Elonsmusk]

Right.  And then he finished at 31%.  When the competition gets tougher, it's tougher to get open looks.

I'm hoping for 33% from Kolek and OMax, 35% from Stevie (though I don't think he'll shoot many), 38% from Joplin, 35% from Kam (I think he's going to be taking tough shots all year), and I hope Sean starts getting enough time to shoot more.

By the way Wades..per your earlier statement about wanting to wager on the under on my projection of Kolek 35-40% for the year - as you offered to take the under 35% bet - let's wager $1,000.  No charity necessary.  You pay me, or I pay you.

[wadesworld]

By the way Wades..per your earlier statement about wanting to wager on the under on my projection of Kolek 35-40% for the year - as you offered to take the under 35% bet - let's wager $1,000.  No charity necessary.  You pay me, or I pay you.

Lol. I’ll pay a charity and you can do the same if I win.

[PointWarrior]

pretty sure the shooting woes will all be fixed shooting at home in the Fiserv (at least that's what I am told, oh wait, it's the opposite)...

[Elonsmusk]

Lol. I’ll pay a charity and you can do the same if I win.

Sorry dude. I want to enjoy some fine food and drink at your expense.  Reality is, is that you don't want to make the bet. 

[wadesworld]

Sorry dude. I want to enjoy some fine food and drink at your expense.  Reality is, is that you don't want to make the bet.

I’d love to lose the bet. But I have no interest in not making it for a good cause.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Sorry dude. I want to enjoy some fine food and drink at your expense.  Reality is, is that you don't want to make the bet. 

He's the one who offered and laid out his terms.  Who's the one who doesn't want to make the bet?

[Stretchdeltsig]

It's obvious that Shaka is a defensive minded coach. Who coaches the offense? Who coaches shooting? I've never seen so many players on the same team with awkward shooting forms. So far our defense is very good, but our offense is painful to watch.

[real chili 83]

I hate no see'ems in Florida. And yes, they get up there.

¿Demasiado ron para nos amigo?

[Newsdreams]

¿Demasiado ron para nos amigo?

Mucho sí

[Elonsmusk]

He's the one who offered and laid out his terms.  Who's the one who doesn't want to make the bet?

Wadesworld.  He didn't lay out his terms - no specified bet amount.  Further, if I were to lose, he can take the money I send him and donate it to his charity of choice.  I'll even send him a stamp to mail off the payment to the charity of his choice if he can't make the payment online.

As I said, I want enjoy some fine food and drink on Wades dime should I win the bet.  Reality is, is that Wades made his offer before Kolek drilled his 3 second half 3's against MS State - and I'd made the statement that Kolek would shoot 35-40% for the year before his 3 of 3 second half performance. 

[MU82]

Charity begins and ends at Ners' home.

[21Jumpstreet]

One of the final reasons MU struggled was as Miss St was closing out MU would take their eyes off the basket while shooting to look at the player coming at them especially OMax.

Additionally, I think the way we closed out hurt us big time. We tried to block every jump shot, bit on every head fake, flew past guys, got out of position, got crushed on the boards and second chance points. As they say, keep the guy in front of you.

[Elonsmusk]

Charity begins and ends at Ners' home.

Yes

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Wadesworld.  He didn't lay out his terms - no specified bet amount.  Further, if I were to lose, he can take the money I send him and donate it to his charity of choice.  I'll even send him a stamp to mail off the payment to the charity of his choice if he can't make the payment online.

As I said, I want enjoy some fine food and drink on Wades dime should I win the bet.  Reality is, is that Wades made his offer before Kolek drilled his 3 second half 3's against MS State - and I'd made the statement that Kolek would shoot 35-40% for the year before his 3 of 3 second half performance. 

When I read this post, all I hear is random clucking noises.

[Elonsmusk]

When I read this post, all I hear is random clucking noises.

Yes.

[Jay Bee]

Doesn’t Ners count as a charity?

[Newsdreams]

Doesn’t Ners count as a charity?

No, he is a prominent dunker

[Elonsmusk]

Doesn’t Ners count as a charity?

Yes.

No, he is a prominent dunker

Yes.

[wadesworld]

I’ll do it for $1,000 to the winner’s choice of charity. And if I win I’ll match your $1,000 to my charity.

No interest in a bet that doesn’t go to a good cause.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Silver spoon.

[Elonsmusk]

Silver spoon.

I agree with this analysis. 

[Lennys Tap]

No interest in a bet that doesn’t go to a good cause.

Me neither. I always made sure my bookie was a family man.

[Viper]

No seems to happen mostly up your a$$

just curious, how old are you? Still in high school?

[brewcity77]

I'm sure Ners would be happy to take a donation to The Human Fund.

[Newsdreams]

just curious, how old are you? Still in high school?

Frosh at MU

[4everwarriors]

Then, act like it, hey?

[Newsdreams]

Then, act like it, hey?

Act civilized then

[4everwarriors]

You should know by now that no one on this board is going to do anything another poster here tells them to do or not do. Only internet beat downs matta, aina?

[GoldenEagles03]

Looking at this team, I don't think the shooting issues are as terrible as it seems.

This team generates good looks and a lot of it comes down to taking good shots.  For example, Stevie is a 40% 3 point shooter, Kolek is a 40% 3 point shooter, OMax is a 33% 3 point shooter, Kam is a 29% 3 point shooter. I think we can all agree we'd all be more comfortable with Kam taking 3's than any of those guys, but they all are shooting better %'s because they just simply take the right shots.

I think scoring can be an issue at times, but if these guys take the right shots and hit the open ones, it'll open up a lot of lanes to the basket.  This team can attack with the best of 'em.

[jfp61]

Looking at this team, I don't think the shooting issues are as terrible as it seems.

This team generates good looks and a lot of it comes down to taking good shots.  For example, Stevie is a 40% 3 point shooter, Kolek is a 40% 3 point shooter, OMax is a 33% 3 point shooter, Kam is a 29% 3 point shooter. I think we can all agree we'd all be more comfortable with Kam taking 3's than any of those guys, but they all are shooting better %'s because they just simply take the right shots.

I think scoring can be an issue at times, but if these guys take the right shots and hit the open ones, it'll open up a lot of lanes to the basket.  This team can attack with the best of 'em.

Kam minus the 27+ footers is 35%. Marquette would be at 33.6% as a team. Middle of the pack.

[wadesworld]

I agree with this analysis.

So not going to take the bet even though I’d be out a grand no matter the result. Guess I’m not the one who doesn’t want the bet. Won’t put your money where your mouth is. Sad.