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Author Topic: Shooting Issues  (Read 2222 times)

MuggsyB

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Shooting Issues
« on: November 22, 2022, 08:23:44 AM »
Is it that simple?  I thought we got plenty of good looks.  If you don't have good shooters what's the countermove or can you get better in this area?  It seems to me if your shooting is subpar you have to get to the FT line to score enough. 

Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2022, 08:25:23 AM »
They don't have natural shooters, but their offense certainly improves when they work it from the inside out instead of passing around the perimeter. IMO they have to break down the defense more like they did in the second half.
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tower912

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2022, 08:46:35 AM »
Is it that simple?  I thought we got plenty of good looks.  If you don't have good shooters what's the countermove or can you get better in this area?  It seems to me if your shooting is subpar you have to get to the FT line to score enough.

MU is playing good defense (coaching).  The offensive scheme is generating good looks. (coaching)   The players are not making the shots.   

Last year, it took time for the team to figure out what a good shot is and how to create them for each other.   I think this team will continue to generate good looks.   They cannot be a great team until they make them.
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rgoode57

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2022, 08:48:13 AM »
The offense stagnated in the first half last night because there was way too much dribbling around the perimeter, not enough ball movement, and virtually no paint game. As a result, the offense had no rhythm at all and deteriorated quickly. The MSU defense had something to do with that but not everything. Truth is, MSU looks like a pretty good team but certainly not a great one. They may not even be in the top half of the SEC. When you have the shooting and rebounding challenges that we have, you have to play very smart. We are not doing that yet.

Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2022, 08:52:50 AM »
The offense stagnated in the first half last night because there was way too much dribbling around the perimeter, not enough ball movement, and virtually no paint game. As a result, the offense had no rhythm at all and deteriorated quickly. The MSU defense had something to do with that but not everything. Truth is, MSU looks like a pretty good team but certainly not a great one. They may not even be in the top half of the SEC. When you have the shooting and rebounding challenges that we have, you have to play very smart. We are not doing that yet.


Yep, and there is no greater way to teach that than through experience.
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MuggsyB

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2022, 09:04:43 AM »
The offense stagnated in the first half last night because there was way too much dribbling around the perimeter, not enough ball movement, and virtually no paint game. As a result, the offense had no rhythm at all and deteriorated quickly. The MSU defense had something to do with that but not everything. Truth is, MSU looks like a pretty good team but certainly not a great one. They may not even be in the top half of the SEC. When you have the shooting and rebounding challenges that we have, you have to play very smart. We are not doing that yet.

I've mentioned before that notwithstanding Kolek our passing off the bounce, once we go downhill, is not good.  I'd like to think we can find a way to execute once we get into the paint beyond potential made kick-outs and scoring in traffic.  Oso is a skilled passer.  He had a tough game last night but is capable scoring the ball.  Can we not use him more in the wide, high, or low post?  I also think we need to take some shots in the paint but before we get to the rim.  That 6-10 footer is there, elevate and knock that down every so often.  Lastly, every one of our players on the floor have to be a threat to score.  I don't think Kam dominating FGA's is the answer to our offensive woes.  Move the basketball, find the open man, have better overall shot distribution and diversification in our offense.  Mitchell, O-Max, and Oso should get shot attempts when they are on the floor.  Especially Stevie going downhill.  We're going to have to do damage collectively imo. 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 09:06:44 AM by MuggsyB »

tower912

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2022, 09:09:39 AM »
Yes, the team is better when it moves and moves the ball.
Yes, TK is the pg because he moves the ball the best after getting into the lane.
Yes, Oso passes well from the different spots.
Yes, it is a great weapon when Oso makes that little 6 ft push shot.
Yes, Kam chucking  from 30 hurts the offense.

You sound exactly like Shaka.
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rocky_warrior

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2022, 09:11:25 AM »
You sound exactly like Shaka.

I thought Shaka had the best press conferences...you're telling me it's actually Muggsy?
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MuggsyB

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2022, 09:15:01 AM »
Yes, the team is better when it moves and moves the ball.
Yes, TK is the pg because he moves the ball the best after getting into the lane.
Yes, Oso passes well from the different spots.
Yes, it is a great weapon when Oso makes that little 6 ft push shot.
Yes, Kam chucking  from 30 hurts the offense.

You sound exactly like Shaka.

Well if that's what Shaka said I approve.  Perhaps we'll wake up Tower. 

TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2022, 09:17:16 AM »
Last season Marquette shot 31.5% from three in non-conference play. They ended up shooting 37% from three in Big East play.

We're shooting 31% from three this season. I'm very confident that this number will improve as the season goes on.

Looking at individual players here are our three point shooting numbers:
Kolek: 41.2%  (17 attempts)
Joplin: 40.6% (32 attempts)
Mitchell: 38.5% (13 attempts)
O-Max: 35.7% (14 attempts)
Ross: 30% (10 attempts)
Kam: 25.6% (43 attempts)
Sean: 18.2% (11 attempts)
Gold: 18.2% (11 attempts)
Walk Ons 0% (3 attempts)
Wrightsil: 0% (1 attempt)

The only significant reason our season 3P% is as low as it is is because of Kam shooting 25.6% on 43 attempts (11 more than any other player). Kam shot 39.2% last season. He is not going to continue to shoot this poorly. If he raises that to even 33%, we are going to be a fine three point shooting team. Add in a little better shooting from Sean and Gold and we could even be solid.

That being said, Shaka has to reign in Kam. The moon shots are getting a little ridiculous at this point.
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wadesworld

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2022, 09:27:18 AM »
Last season Marquette shot 31.5% from three in non-conference play. They ended up shooting 37% from three in Big East play.

We're shooting 31% from three this season. I'm very confident that this number will improve as the season goes on.

Looking at individual players here are our three point shooting numbers:
Kolek: 41.2%  (17 attempts)
Joplin: 40.6% (32 attempts)
Mitchell: 38.5% (13 attempts)
O-Max: 35.7% (14 attempts)
Ross: 30% (10 attempts)
Kam: 25.6% (43 attempts)
Sean: 18.2% (11 attempts)
Gold: 18.2% (11 attempts)
Walk Ons 0% (3 attempts)
Wrightsil: 0% (1 attempt)

The only significant reason our season 3P% is as low as it is is because of Kam shooting 25.6% on 43 attempts (11 more than any other player). Kam shot 39.2% last season. He is not going to continue to shoot this poorly. If he raises that to even 33%, we are going to be a fine three point shooting team. Add in a little better shooting from Sean and Gold and we could even be solid.

That being said, Shaka has to reign in Kam. The moon shots are getting a little ridiculous at this point.

I would be absolutely shocked if Kolek and Mitchell shoot around 40% and OMax shoots over 35%.  I don't think Joplin will end up over 40% either, but that's the one I could at least conceive.
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MuggsyB

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2022, 09:30:59 AM »
Last season Marquette shot 31.5% from three in non-conference play. They ended up shooting 37% from three in Big East play.

We're shooting 31% from three this season. I'm very confident that this number will improve as the season goes on.

Looking at individual players here are our three point shooting numbers:
Kolek: 41.2%  (17 attempts)
Joplin: 40.6% (32 attempts)
Mitchell: 38.5% (13 attempts)
O-Max: 35.7% (14 attempts)
Ross: 30% (10 attempts)
Kam: 25.6% (43 attempts)
Sean: 18.2% (11 attempts)
Gold: 18.2% (11 attempts)
Walk Ons 0% (3 attempts)
Wrightsil: 0% (1 attempt)

The only significant reason our season 3P% is as low as it is is because of Kam shooting 25.6% on 43 attempts (11 more than any other player). Kam shot 39.2% last season. He is not going to continue to shoot this poorly. If he raises that to even 33%, we are going to be a fine three point shooting team. Add in a little better shooting from Sean and Gold and we could even be solid.

That being said, Shaka has to reign in Kam. The moon shots are getting a little ridiculous at this point.

I hope you're right.   Would you reign Kam in by sitting him immediately after a 35 foot bomb?

Uncle Rico

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2022, 09:34:27 AM »
I hope you're right.   Would you reign Kam in by sitting him immediately after a 35 foot bomb?

No
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wadesworld

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2022, 09:36:57 AM »
I hope you're right.   Would you reign Kam in by sitting him immediately after a 35 foot bomb?

Would the Hausers write a letter if they were on the roster this year?
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TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2022, 09:37:28 AM »
I would be absolutely shocked if Kolek and Mitchell shoot around 40% and OMax shoots over 35%.  I don't think Joplin will end up over 40% either, but that's the one I could at least conceive.

You do know that after November of last season, O-Max shot 36.2% from 3, right?

I think Kolek and O-Max end up above 37%. Mitchell I think will come down to around 33%. Jop I think will come down to closer to 35%. But I think Kam ends up around 37% with by far the most attempts. Gold I think will eventually get to above 30% but I'm not sure how many attempts he will get. Sean and Ross I'm not sure on.
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wadesworld

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2022, 09:40:36 AM »
You do know that after November of last season, O-Max shot 36.2% from 3, right?

I think Kolek and O-Max end up above 37%. Mitchell I think will come down to around 33%. Jop I think will come down to closer to 35%. But I think Kam ends up around 37% with by far the most attempts. Gold I think will eventually get to above 30% but I'm not sure how many attempts he will get. Sean and Ross I'm not sure on.

Right.  And then he finished at 31%.  When the competition gets tougher, it's tougher to get open looks.

I'm hoping for 33% from Kolek and OMax, 35% from Stevie (though I don't think he'll shoot many), 38% from Joplin, 35% from Kam (I think he's going to be taking tough shots all year), and I hope Sean starts getting enough time to shoot more.
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TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2022, 09:42:12 AM »
I hope you're right.   Would you reign Kam in by sitting him immediately after a 35 foot bomb?

Depends on context. In the first half of the shot clock? Yeah, I think I would.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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And the wisdom to know the difference.

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TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2022, 09:49:42 AM »
Right.  And then he finished at 31%.  When the competition gets tougher, it's tougher to get open looks.

I said after November of last season. So 1 cupcake, @Wisconsin, @Kansas State, UCLA and all of Big East play and postseason he shot 36.2% from three. He shot 15% against three cupcakes, Illinois, Ole Miss, West Virginia, and St. Bonaventure which dragged his season average down to 31%. So no, competition got tougher and despite that, he shot significantly better.

I'm hoping for 33% from Kolek and OMax, 35% from Stevie (though I don't think he'll shoot many), 38% from Joplin, 35% from Kam (I think he's going to be taking tough shots all year), and I hope Sean starts getting enough time to shoot more.

You do know that if your predictions end up being true that we would probably be shooting somewhere in the realm of 34-35% as team which is solid right?
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wadesworld

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2022, 09:51:25 AM »
I said after November of last season. So 1 cupcake, @Wisconsin, @Kansas State, UCLA and all of Big East play and postseason he shot 36.2% from three. He shot 15% against three cupcakes, Illinois, Ole Miss, West Virginia, and St. Bonaventure which dragged his season average down to 31%. So no, competition got tougher and despite that, he shot significantly better.

You do know that if your predictions end up being true that we would probably be shooting somewhere in the realm of 34-35% as team which is solid right?

Got it.  Maybe there's something there.  It's not a smooth jumper from my eyes, but we'll see if he has it in him.

I do know that.  That's why I HOPE for those numbers.
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TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2022, 10:00:33 AM »
Got it.  Maybe there's something there.  It's not a smooth jumper from my eyes, but we'll see if he has it in him.

And that's interesting because O-Max' jumper looks smooth to me. I'd rank his as top 3 on the team with Kolek and Kam. Mitchell and Joplin are the ones I'm not sure about.
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Newsdreams

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2022, 10:05:12 AM »
And that's interesting because O-Max' jumper looks smooth to me. I'd rank his as top 3 on the team with Kolek and Kam. Mitchell and Joplin are the ones I'm not sure about.
Seen these guy twice now and Mitchell looks tentative shooting the 3, Jop looks confident but not consistent.
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swoopem

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2022, 10:12:18 AM »
I like Jop’s shot and trust him to shoot but his release is really slow. It seems like the defense is able to close out on him much quicker than they should and then he has to shoot over them. That should be fixable
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Goose

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2022, 10:31:54 AM »
I think Omax has a smooth shot and only Kam looks smoother to me. I think they need to find way to get him in the flow early in the game and slow him down. His shot is not the problem, IMO.

Hoops92

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2022, 10:39:24 AM »
The three point shooting would be so much better if this team (other than TK) made any effort whatsoever to get into the paint.  This is my one frustration with Shaka. I’d tell Kam and David that they are forbidden to take a 3 point shot until they have made two layups or gotten to the line twice.

Remember when we used to make more free throws than the other team attempted.  The opposite is true for this team. 

I’d really think that paint touches has to be an emphasis going forward.  Start tracking that with the deflections.


wadesworld

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Re: Shooting Issues
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2022, 10:47:29 AM »
And that's interesting because O-Max' jumper looks smooth to me. I'd rank his as top 3 on the team with Kolek and Kam. Mitchell and Joplin are the ones I'm not sure about.

Kolek's form is yuck.  Very herky jerky, as is OMax's.  Kam's is smooth, Mitchell's and Joplin's are very smooth when they have time to get set, but both take a very long time to get off.
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