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Author Topic: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread  (Read 207161 times)

MU82

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1825 on: January 27, 2023, 03:03:22 PM »
Keep in mind that my memory of college basketball goes back over 60 years and includes those years in the 60’s and 70’s in which teams like Ohio State, Cincinnati, UCLA, NC State, and Indiana held number one rankings, rarely lost a game, and won NCAA titles. Losing a home game to a team outside of the top 100 (like Houston losing to Temple) simply didn’t happen.

Even over the last 20 years or so there have been a lot of seasons in which teams from places like Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Arizona, Kansas, Gonzaga, etc have had  clear top 1 or 2 teams and it was big news when they lost and most of those losses would come on the road to ranked teams.  In some of those years, 3 of the 4 number 1 seeds have made the Final Four and one of them won the title.

This year, if the wager was over/under on 1.5 of the number one seeds making the Final Four, I would probably take the under. I just feel like the gap between the 1 seeds and the 4 and 5 seeds (and even the 8 and 9 seeds)  is not as great as it often is.

I realize that my comment about Purdue was (intentionally) hyperbolic. But it reflects my feeling that being “the number one team in the nation” doesn’t carry the same aura of dominance that it often has in the past.

If you say so.
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wisblue

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1826 on: January 27, 2023, 04:16:16 PM »
If you say so.

Those are my opinions. I thought that was what message boards were about.

panda

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1827 on: January 27, 2023, 04:19:43 PM »
Those are my opinions. I thought that was what message boards were about.

No - unless you present an opinion that others agree with…

tower912

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1828 on: January 27, 2023, 04:37:41 PM »
Opinions get challenged all the time.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

panda

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1829 on: January 27, 2023, 04:48:09 PM »
Opinions get challenged all the time.

Some better than others

JakeBarnes

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1830 on: January 27, 2023, 04:48:59 PM »
Opinions get challenged all the time.

And that's a fact
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.


pbiflyer

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1831 on: January 27, 2023, 05:03:05 PM »


Considering the conference they play in, if Houston is rated number one they might well be one of the weakest number one rated teams ever.

My daughter goes to UCF, so I’ve watched my fair share of AAC basketball this year. If you think it is a bad conference, let me tell you that you are way way way on base. Painful to watch.

wisblue

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1832 on: January 27, 2023, 05:11:57 PM »
My daughter goes to UCF, so I’ve watched my fair share of AAC basketball this year. If you think it is a bad conference, let me tell you that you are way way way on base. Painful to watch.

Are you saying it is worse than bad?

The conference has a number of teams that have  good basketball traditions and have had good teams in recent seasons: Cincinnati, Memphis, Tulsa, Wichita State, Temple, SMU to name a few. But, they are all having varying degrees of down seasons, putting the conference at risk of being a one bid league and leaving Houston relatively untested.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 06:48:31 PM by wisblue »

wisblue

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1833 on: January 27, 2023, 05:19:10 PM »
Opinions get challenged all the time.

True, but “if you say so” is more of a dismissal than a challenge.

tower912

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1834 on: January 27, 2023, 06:25:11 PM »
If you say so.


 ;D
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

wisblue

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1835 on: January 27, 2023, 06:50:02 PM »

Lennys Tap

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1836 on: January 27, 2023, 08:07:37 PM »
Keep in mind that my memory of college basketball goes back over 60 years and includes those years in the 60’s and 70’s in which teams like Ohio State, Cincinnati, UCLA, NC State, and Indiana held number one rankings, rarely lost a game, and won NCAA titles. Losing a home game to a team outside of the top 100 (like Houston losing to Temple) simply didn’t happen.

Even over the last 20 years or so there have been a lot of seasons in which teams from places like Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Arizona, Kansas, Gonzaga, etc have had  clear top 1 or 2 teams and it was big news when they lost and most of those losses would come on the road to ranked teams.  In some of those years, 3 of the 4 number 1 seeds have made the Final Four and one of them won the title.

This year, if the wager was over/under on 1.5 of the number one seeds making the Final Four, I would probably take the under. I just feel like the gap between the 1 seeds and the 4 and 5 seeds (and even the 8 and 9 seeds)  is not as great as it often is.

I realize that my comment about Purdue was (intentionally) hyperbolic. But it reflects my feeling that being “the number one team in the nation” doesn’t carry the same aura of dominance that it often has in the past.

We’re watching the same movie this year.

And your memories of the old movies match mine.

So I say so, too.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1837 on: January 27, 2023, 08:49:57 PM »
We’re watching the same movie this year.

And your memories of the old movies match mine.

So I say so, too.

Add one more I say so.
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

Newsdreams

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1838 on: January 27, 2023, 09:19:48 PM »
Watch, we’ll lose to DePaul Saturday now that final four caliber team is being thrown around.
Not February yet, wait 'till February fade
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pbiflyer

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1839 on: January 27, 2023, 09:31:38 PM »
Are you saying it is worse than bad?

The conference has a number of teams that have  good basketball traditions and have had good teams in recent seasons: Cincinnati, Memphis, Tulsa, Wichita State, Temple, SMU to name a few. But, they are all having varying degrees of down seasons, putting the conference at risk of being a one bid league and leaving Houston relatively untested.

Yeah, I’ve seen multiple teams from this crop of AAC teams, and they just play unsound, not solid basketball. It’s not even a lack of talent. And they have some seemingly good coaches in the conference.

Jockey

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1840 on: January 27, 2023, 10:32:41 PM »
Keep in mind that my memory of college basketball goes back over 60 years and includes those years in the 60’s and 70’s in which teams like Ohio State, Cincinnati, UCLA, NC State, and Indiana held number one rankings, rarely lost a game, and won NCAA titles. Losing a home game to a team outside of the top 100 (like Houston losing to Temple) simply didn’t happen.

Even over the last 20 years or so there have been a lot of seasons in which teams from places like Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Arizona, Kansas, Gonzaga, etc have had  clear top 1 or 2 teams and it was big news when they lost and most of those losses would come on the road to ranked teams.  In some of those years, 3 of the 4 number 1 seeds have made the Final Four and one of them won the title.

This year, if the wager was over/under on 1.5 of the number one seeds making the Final Four, I would probably take the under. I just feel like the gap between the 1 seeds and the 4 and 5 seeds (and even the 8 and 9 seeds)  is not as great as it often is.

I realize that my comment about Purdue was (intentionally) hyperbolic. But it reflects my feeling that being “the number one team in the nation” doesn’t carry the same aura of dominance that it often has in the past.

I don’t disagree with most of what you say.

What is missing however, is context. Those great teams that rarely lost had a couple huge advantages over today’s teams.

One is the schedule. Back then, teams played fewer games and seldom played tough teams in non-con play. Nowadays, teams play tough early season games so they will have more losses.

The bigger thing though is that most of those teams had upperclassmen who were in the system for 3-4 years as their stars. That rarely happens now. So, mid-majors will have way more experienced players going against young, inexperienced guys - who are more talented - but who haven’t played a lot together.

wisblue

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1841 on: January 28, 2023, 06:17:19 AM »
I don’t disagree with most of what you say.

What is missing however, is context. Those great teams that rarely lost had a couple huge advantages over today’s teams.

One is the schedule. Back then, teams played fewer games and seldom played tough teams in non-con play. Nowadays, teams play tough early season games so they will have more losses.

The bigger thing though is that most of those teams had upperclassmen who were in the system for 3-4 years as their stars. That rarely happens now. So, mid-majors will have way more experienced players going against young, inexperienced guys - who are more talented - but who haven’t played a lot together.

Very good points that are all true.

 I think they expand on and explain (rather than contradict) my conclusion that being rated number one doesn’t carry the same significance that it did years ago, or when you have super talented teams like the 2015 Kentucky team that won 38 games before losing to a talented and veteran Wisconsin team that turned around and lost to a very talented Duke team.

I don’t think that teams that have been rated number one this season like Purdue and Houston, come close to towering over the rest of the field like those 3 teams did.

BTW, your comment about teams having upperclassmen as stars is one of the main reasons I have considered Xavier to be the clear favorite in the Big East.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1842 on: January 28, 2023, 07:29:39 AM »
Very good points that are all true.

 I think they expand on and explain (rather than contradict) my conclusion that being rated number one doesn’t carry the same significance that it did years ago, or when you have super talented teams like the 2015 Kentucky team that won 38 games before losing to a talented and veteran Wisconsin team that turned around and lost to a very talented Duke team.

I don’t think that teams that have been rated number one this season like Purdue and Houston, come close to towering over the rest of the field like those 3 teams did.

BTW, your comment about teams having upperclassmen as stars is one of the main reasons I have considered Xavier to be the clear favorite in the Big East.

And Kentucky had another super talented team in the 2014 national title game that lost 60-54 to super experienced UCONN that had to play in Dayton. UCONN's experience showed near the end of the game when Kentucky looked like deer in the headlights. Agree about Xavier's experience making them the favorite, but let's hope Shaka's wiliness counters that advantage.

I suggest that there was one more factor- coaching longevity. Whether it was a case of their contracts being treated like, you know, contracts or just the way things were, coaches seemed more likely to be in for the long haul.

The combination of your post and Jockey's sums it up very nicely. You guys said so, and I say so too.
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brewcity77

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1843 on: January 28, 2023, 07:47:42 AM »
Just a point of clairification, UConn didn't play in Dayton in 2014. They were a 7-seed and opened with 10-seed St. Joe's. While it was big name programs in the final, that was a bizarre Championship Game with a 7/8 seed matchup.

But agreed completely on coaching longevity. If you get someone in and give them time to build their system, provided they know what they are doing, they should give you enough bites at the apple that you'll have some success. Even though we're only in year 2 of this project right now, I think we are positioned well to be a strong program in the next decade-plus.
This space reserved for a 2024 National Championship celebration banner.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1844 on: January 28, 2023, 08:00:10 AM »
Just a point of clairification, UConn didn't play in Dayton in 2014. They were a 7-seed and opened with 10-seed St. Joe's. While it was big name programs in the final, that was a bizarre Championship Game with a 7/8 seed matchup.

But agreed completely on coaching longevity. If you get someone in and give them time to build their system, provided they know what they are doing, they should give you enough bites at the apple that you'll have some success. Even though we're only in year 2 of this project right now, I think we are positioned well to be a strong program in the next decade-plus.

 Thanks for the correction, Brew. Mea Culpa. I should have looked that up as I did the score but foolishly went on memory alone.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2023, 08:10:07 AM by Scoop Snoop »
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

Viper

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1845 on: January 28, 2023, 08:02:54 AM »
True, but “if you say so” is more of a dismissal than a challenge.
don’t worry about it. 82 has issues

Scoop Snoop

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1846 on: January 28, 2023, 08:13:54 AM »
don’t worry about it. 82 has issues

I'm usually fine with him, but after getting into a fight with Panda over opinion vs. fact (Houston), why reply as he did when wisblue very clearly posted an opinion?
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

MU82

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1847 on: January 28, 2023, 09:16:04 AM »
wisblue:

I sincerely apologize for my dismissive response. I had checked Scoop in the middle of doing a bunch of investing-related stuff, it appeared we were agreeing to disagree, and I didn't feel like getting into a back-and-forth on it. I simply should have said something along the lines of "agree to disagree" instead of what I did.

As for the topic, I think one can look at any group of years and find periods with more dominant teams, and periods with seemingly no truly great teams and parity. So sure, there were past years with dominant teams, especially decades ago, but in my opinion there haven't been that many years like that in more recent times. But maybe you're right and this season is the outlier -- and if so I think we both hope Marquette takes advantage of it.

Peace. We Are Marquette!
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wisblue

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1848 on: January 28, 2023, 10:12:10 AM »
wisblue:

I sincerely apologize for my dismissive response. I had checked Scoop in the middle of doing a bunch of investing-related stuff, it appeared we were agreeing to disagree, and I didn't feel like getting into a back-and-forth on it. I simply should have said something along the lines of "agree to disagree" instead of what I did.

As for the topic, I think one can look at any group of years and find periods with more dominant teams, and periods with seemingly no truly great teams and parity. So sure, there were past years with dominant teams, especially decades ago, but in my opinion there haven't been that many years like that in more recent times. But maybe you're right and this season is the outlier -- and if so I think we both hope Marquette takes advantage of it.

Peace. We Are Marquette!

All good.

I’m not even sure how much we disagree.


tower912

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Re: 2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread
« Reply #1849 on: January 28, 2023, 03:09:47 PM »
Alabama, ouch.  That one is going to hurt the metrics.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

 

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