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Author Topic: Cancelling high school football  (Read 2344 times)

tower912

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Cancelling high school football
« on: September 15, 2022, 08:10:13 AM »
Speaking of cancel culture....
High  schools in my area with decent sized enrollments are cancelling games and even the test of the season due to lack of healthy players.  (Holland, Grand Haven)
Both are variations of lack of upperclassmen causing a lack of a JV squad, and then too many sophomores getting injured playing against the big boys.
I am trying to figure out if this is more about COVID interruption causing kids to lose interest and therefore a blip, or further signs of the decline of football.
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RJax55

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2022, 09:04:06 AM »
Speaking of cancel culture....
High  schools in my area with decent sized enrollments are cancelling games and even the test of the season due to lack of healthy players.  (Holland, Grand Haven)
Both are variations of lack of upperclassmen causing a lack of a JV squad, and then too many sophomores getting injured playing against the big boys.
I am trying to figure out if this is more about COVID interruption causing kids to lose interest and therefore a blip, or further signs of the decline of football.

For what it's worth...

Last month, I was paired up with an old man at a local course near me (NW burbs of Chicago). He spent the whole round bitching and moaning about the lack of youth participation in football in the area. I know zero about this, so he was basically shouting into the wind (I should have had him join Scoop). Anyway, he stated he had been involved with youth football for over 40 years and the numbers gravely concerned him. He felt the local high school programs were going to be in trouble in the next 5 years.



« Last Edit: September 15, 2022, 09:09:12 AM by RJax55 »

MU82

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2022, 09:24:26 AM »
I have 3 grandsons. They'll start getting involved in sports in a few years. If I'm asked my opinion, I would side against any of them playing tackle football.
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muwarrior69

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2022, 09:31:22 AM »
Here in my town in central Jersey we have a good size asian population (Indian, Pakistani). Our High School football team is one of the best if not the best in their division. The School soccer team is also competitive with the asian students being the best players. Both teams pull in the same attendance at games. With just over 900 students I am surprised there are enough boys to field both a football and soccer team much less be competitive in both in our small town of about 12K people.

Yes 82 there are concerns about the boys playing tackle football which I am sure is why soccer's popularity has increased.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2022, 09:44:52 AM by muwarrior69 »

MUfan12

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2022, 09:51:41 AM »
There's no chance I'm letting my son play football. Not worth it.

Retire0

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2022, 10:02:57 AM »
I'm in a pretty rabid football town, no way the son is playing football. He's only mentioned it once before, but it's a non-starter.

Fall is golf season anyway for IHSA.
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Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2022, 10:03:40 AM »
Youth football has been on the decline for years for many of the obvious reasons. There will still be some powerhouse programs that attract players, but I think you are going to see more and more "co-op" programs or schools dropping it all together.

And none of this will have much impact on what people watch on Sunday afternoons.
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TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2022, 10:43:58 AM »
And none of this will have much impact on what people watch on Sunday afternoons.

I mean, eventually it will right, assuming the trend continues? I've always thought that the reason that the US isn't good at soccer is because our best athletes are going into football and basketball instead. Guys who are football and basketball pros in the states may have been soccer stars if they grew up in Europe or South America. If more and more of the best athletes go into basketball and soccer instead of football, won't that eventually impact the way the sports are viewed?
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MU82

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2022, 10:57:20 AM »
I mean, eventually it will right, assuming the trend continues? I've always thought that the reason that the US isn't good at soccer is because our best athletes are going into football and basketball instead. Guys who are football and basketball pros in the states may have been soccer stars if they grew up in Europe or South America. If more and more of the best athletes go into basketball and soccer instead of football, won't that eventually impact the way the sports are viewed?

One would think, eventually. But for longer than you've been alive, I've been hearing about how soccer is booming and will replace football as a spectator sport in America ... and decades have gone by and it hasn't happened. But as you said, the decline in participation will have to affect football eventually.

Then again, my grandkids probably won't be among "the best athletes" anyway - ha!
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JWags85

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2022, 11:04:44 AM »
Here in my town in central Jersey we have a good size asian population (Indian, Pakistani). Our High School football team is one of the best if not the best in their division. The School soccer team is also competitive with the asian students being the best players. Both teams pull in the same attendance at games. With just over 900 students I am surprised there are enough boys to field both a football and soccer team much less be competitive in both in our small town of about 12K people.

Yes 82 there are concerns about the boys playing tackle football which I am sure is why soccer's popularity has increased.

I'm not sure if its just regional bias in NJ, but 12K isn't a "small town" as far as suburbs go, and enrollment of 900 kids isn't remotely small at all.  In Wisconsin for example, 900 kids would be firmly D2, in about the 75-80th percentile for enrollment.  In a school of roughly 450-500 boys, you're surprised they can field football and soccer teams that would take up about 75 roster spots?

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2022, 11:10:44 AM »
Speaking of cancel culture....
High  schools in my area with decent sized enrollments are cancelling games and even the test of the season due to lack of healthy players.  (Holland, Grand Haven)
Both are variations of lack of upperclassmen causing a lack of a JV squad, and then too many sophomores getting injured playing against the big boys.
I am trying to figure out if this is more about COVID interruption causing kids to lose interest and therefore a blip, or further signs of the decline of football.

youth football participation has been dropping for years before COVID. Before COVID in 2019 it was estimated there were 100,000 fewer kids playing football than the previous decade.  This is where MU was smart to start LAX, kids who want to play a physical sport are not being allowed to play football and instead being steered to LAX all over the country.
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2022, 11:39:51 AM »
So much for conference realignment due to football in five years...

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2022, 12:13:02 PM »
So much for conference realignment due to football in five years...

there will always be football in the power conferences, but it's the smaller schools that are going to feel the pinch of smaller rosters.
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LAZER

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2022, 12:27:46 PM »
For what it's worth...

Last month, I was paired up with an old man at a local course near me (NW burbs of Chicago). He spent the whole round bitching and moaning about the lack of youth participation in football in the area. I know zero about this, so he was basically shouting into the wind (I should have had him join Scoop). Anyway, he stated he had been involved with youth football for over 40 years and the numbers gravely concerned him. He felt the local high school programs were going to be in trouble in the next 5 years.
It's amazing how far IL grade school kids are traveling these days for football games. I don't have any kids playing, but I hear of friends and neighbors routinely traveling 1-2 hours for 12yr old football games.

RJax55

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2022, 01:19:23 PM »
It's amazing how far IL grade school kids are traveling these days for football games. I don't have any kids playing, but I hear of friends and neighbors routinely traveling 1-2 hours for 12yr old football games.

Yeah, he mentioned this. From what he was saying, the issue is being caused by a lack of kids coming out to play in the first place and a significantly greater melt rate of players as they age.

I know zero about this stuff, so I'm taking his word on it. He was definitely passionate and he had some takes about how this was the end of community and such that might even make Larry Fedora blush.

Dickthedribbler

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2022, 02:24:31 PM »
My sister and brother-in-law live in a small town in central Wisconsin (2,500--3,000 pop.). Twenty-five years ago every one of those towns had their own football teams ( and I'm not talking about 7 man football either but full roster football). Now they have to combine with 2 other similarly situated neighboring towns to form ONE team. So School A is 12 miles from School B and School B is 10 miles from School C. So they have to find a centrally located place to practice 4 nights a week. Each town gets 1 or at most 2 "home" games a year. You're practicing and playing with guys, 2/3 of whom you don't go to school with and don't pal around with. Friday night football games in those towns used to be for community boding and we're a source of pride. Now, meh.

It's really no one's fault I guess. Times change, things change. But I think high school football in those small towns is really on its last leg. Sad.

tower912

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2022, 02:30:34 PM »
My son's high school's enrollment did not change, but they dropped down a classification because of the number of smaller schools going to 8-man teams.
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RJax55

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2022, 02:44:11 PM »
My sister and brother-in-law live in a small town in central Wisconsin (2,500--3,000 pop.). Twenty-five years ago every one of those towns had their own football teams ( and I'm not talking about 7 man football either but full roster football). Now they have to combine with 2 other similarly situated neighboring towns to form ONE team. So School A is 12 miles from School B and School B is 10 miles from School C. So they have to find a centrally located place to practice 4 nights a week. Each town gets 1 or at most 2 "home" games a year. You're practicing and playing with guys, 2/3 of whom you don't go to school with and don't pal around with. Friday night football games in those towns used to be for community boding and we're a source of pride. Now, meh.

It's really no one's fault I guess. Times change, things change. But I think high school football in those small towns is really on its last leg. Sad.

In small towns, I could see how the end or consolidation of the local football team could negatively impact community. But, as you state, times change and communities must adapt as well.

The comments that I heard were directly related to suburban Chicago communities. IMO, that's quite a leap as I don't believe many residents would consider their local high school football team to be a vital part of their community.

Dickthedribbler

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2022, 02:59:59 PM »
If you listen to the so called"smart people" in sports-------the pundits, the talking heads, the fans, the network executives who pay the big money------they will ALL tell us that "football drives everything".

Yet when it comes to actual participation at the grade school and high school levels, interest appears to be wanting rapidly.

American football------the anomaly of all anomalies. We either discourage or outright forbid our kids from playing high school football, or we breathe a sigh of relief when they opt for soccer or cross country. But save me a seat in front of the TV for 10 hours every Saturday and Sunday so I can be entertained by some other guy's kid getting the chit pummeled out of him.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2022, 03:05:45 PM »
My sister and brother-in-law live in a small town in central Wisconsin (2,500--3,000 pop.). Twenty-five years ago every one of those towns had their own football teams ( and I'm not talking about 7 man football either but full roster football). Now they have to combine with 2 other similarly situated neighboring towns to form ONE team. So School A is 12 miles from School B and School B is 10 miles from School C. So they have to find a centrally located place to practice 4 nights a week. Each town gets 1 or at most 2 "home" games a year. You're practicing and playing with guys, 2/3 of whom you don't go to school with and don't pal around with. Friday night football games in those towns used to be for community boding and we're a source of pride. Now, meh.

It's really no one's fault I guess. Times change, things change. But I think high school football in those small towns is really on its last leg. Sad.

Oh no, what will we do without more Power I football!?!?

dgies9156

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2022, 03:08:16 PM »
Youth football has been on the decline for years for many of the obvious reasons. There will still be some powerhouse programs that attract players, but I think you are going to see more and more "co-op" programs or schools dropping it all together.

And none of this will have much impact on what people watch on Sunday afternoons.

Ya'll been to Texas lately?

Or Florida?

Or anyplace in the deep south.

Football is alive and well.

Pakuni

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2022, 03:27:31 PM »
I wouldn't draw a line between youth participation and adult fandom. MMA is the fasting growing sport in terms of viewership and revenue. How many UFC fans have actually gotten in an octogan?

And while youth football participation rates have fallen, there are still more than enough players to populate the major collegiate and professional ranks. There were more than 1 million high school football players as of the 2020 season. Between FBS and FCS, there are fewer than 19,000 scholarships ... so still only one scholarship for every 53ish high school players.
If anyone loses here, it'll be the D-III schools that use the opportunity to play football as a recruitment tool. They may struggle to find enough kids interested in playing for free to field full rosters.

JWags85

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2022, 04:04:26 PM »
And while youth football participation rates have fallen, there are still more than enough players to populate the major collegiate and professional ranks. There were more than 1 million high school football players as of the 2020 season. Between FBS and FCS, there are fewer than 19,000 scholarships ... so still only one scholarship for every 53ish high school players.

Yep. Further more...

Ya'll been to Texas lately?

Or Florida?

Or anyplace in the deep south.

Football is alive and well.

Exactly.  Looking at Wisconsin and Illinois which have been talked about here...Look at the top 11 ranked programs right now (included #11 MSU just got a further upper Midwest benefit).  There are 5 players TOTAL, among close to 500 roster spots, from Wisconsin.  Not ND, not RI, Wisconsin, the 20th largest state in the country.  If you take away the 2 B10 programs not named OSU in that list?  1 player.

Hell, expand to Illinois, one of the largest states in the US with a proud HS football tradition, 15 players total in those top 11 programs.  Only 8 not including Michigan or MSU, and only 2 of those 8 were non-lineman.

If you're examining the fate of the NCAA or NFL football future, and how youth football feeds into it, look California, look at Ohio/Missouri/Pennsylvania, and look south of the Mason Dixon line.  Not the northern states that aren't big drivers.  Those southern states all have thriving youth football

muwarrior69

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2022, 04:15:30 PM »
I'm not sure if its just regional bias in NJ, but 12K isn't a "small town" as far as suburbs go, and enrollment of 900 kids isn't remotely small at all.  In Wisconsin for example, 900 kids would be firmly D2, in about the 75-80th percentile for enrollment.  In a school of roughly 450-500 boys, you're surprised they can field football and soccer teams that would take up about 75 roster spots?

Well I used to live in Hamilton, just a mile from where I live now. Bordentown Township is approximately 12000 while Hamilton Township is about 100,000 about 8x larger. It's all relative. Hamilton has 3 high schools each with their own football team. New Jersey isn't crazy like Texas or the south in general, but football is still a very popular high school sport that the students and community still rally around.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2022, 04:20:11 PM by muwarrior69 »

Spotcheck Billy

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Re: Cancelling high school football
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2022, 04:17:37 PM »
Yep. Further more...

Exactly.  Looking at Wisconsin and Illinois which have been talked about here...Look at the top 11 ranked programs right now (included #11 MSU just got a further upper Midwest benefit).  There are 5 players TOTAL, among close to 500 roster spots, from Wisconsin.  Not ND, not RI, Wisconsin, the 20th largest state in the country.  If you take away the 2 B10 programs not named OSU in that list?  1 player.

Hell, expand to Illinois, one of the largest states in the US with a proud HS football tradition, 15 players total in those top 11 programs.  Only 8 not including Michigan or MSU, and only 2 of those 8 were non-lineman.

If you're examining the fate of the NCAA or NFL football future, and how youth football feeds into it, look California, look at Ohio/Missouri/Pennsylvania, and look south of the Mason Dixon line.  Not the northern states that aren't big drivers.  Those southern states all have thriving youth football

It might not show up in those areas yet but even some like Favre have stated they would discourage any sons from playing. It just might take longer to be a factor in those areas but 10-15 years down the road who can say?

 

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