MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: tower912 on September 15, 2022, 08:10:13 AM
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Speaking of cancel culture....
High schools in my area with decent sized enrollments are cancelling games and even the test of the season due to lack of healthy players. (Holland, Grand Haven)
Both are variations of lack of upperclassmen causing a lack of a JV squad, and then too many sophomores getting injured playing against the big boys.
I am trying to figure out if this is more about COVID interruption causing kids to lose interest and therefore a blip, or further signs of the decline of football.
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Speaking of cancel culture....
High schools in my area with decent sized enrollments are cancelling games and even the test of the season due to lack of healthy players. (Holland, Grand Haven)
Both are variations of lack of upperclassmen causing a lack of a JV squad, and then too many sophomores getting injured playing against the big boys.
I am trying to figure out if this is more about COVID interruption causing kids to lose interest and therefore a blip, or further signs of the decline of football.
For what it's worth...
Last month, I was paired up with an old man at a local course near me (NW burbs of Chicago). He spent the whole round bitching and moaning about the lack of youth participation in football in the area. I know zero about this, so he was basically shouting into the wind (I should have had him join Scoop). Anyway, he stated he had been involved with youth football for over 40 years and the numbers gravely concerned him. He felt the local high school programs were going to be in trouble in the next 5 years.
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I have 3 grandsons. They'll start getting involved in sports in a few years. If I'm asked my opinion, I would side against any of them playing tackle football.
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Here in my town in central Jersey we have a good size asian population (Indian, Pakistani). Our High School football team is one of the best if not the best in their division. The School soccer team is also competitive with the asian students being the best players. Both teams pull in the same attendance at games. With just over 900 students I am surprised there are enough boys to field both a football and soccer team much less be competitive in both in our small town of about 12K people.
Yes 82 there are concerns about the boys playing tackle football which I am sure is why soccer's popularity has increased.
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There's no chance I'm letting my son play football. Not worth it.
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I'm in a pretty rabid football town, no way the son is playing football. He's only mentioned it once before, but it's a non-starter.
Fall is golf season anyway for IHSA.
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Youth football has been on the decline for years for many of the obvious reasons. There will still be some powerhouse programs that attract players, but I think you are going to see more and more "co-op" programs or schools dropping it all together.
And none of this will have much impact on what people watch on Sunday afternoons.
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And none of this will have much impact on what people watch on Sunday afternoons.
I mean, eventually it will right, assuming the trend continues? I've always thought that the reason that the US isn't good at soccer is because our best athletes are going into football and basketball instead. Guys who are football and basketball pros in the states may have been soccer stars if they grew up in Europe or South America. If more and more of the best athletes go into basketball and soccer instead of football, won't that eventually impact the way the sports are viewed?
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I mean, eventually it will right, assuming the trend continues? I've always thought that the reason that the US isn't good at soccer is because our best athletes are going into football and basketball instead. Guys who are football and basketball pros in the states may have been soccer stars if they grew up in Europe or South America. If more and more of the best athletes go into basketball and soccer instead of football, won't that eventually impact the way the sports are viewed?
One would think, eventually. But for longer than you've been alive, I've been hearing about how soccer is booming and will replace football as a spectator sport in America ... and decades have gone by and it hasn't happened. But as you said, the decline in participation will have to affect football eventually.
Then again, my grandkids probably won't be among "the best athletes" anyway - ha!
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Here in my town in central Jersey we have a good size asian population (Indian, Pakistani). Our High School football team is one of the best if not the best in their division. The School soccer team is also competitive with the asian students being the best players. Both teams pull in the same attendance at games. With just over 900 students I am surprised there are enough boys to field both a football and soccer team much less be competitive in both in our small town of about 12K people.
Yes 82 there are concerns about the boys playing tackle football which I am sure is why soccer's popularity has increased.
I'm not sure if its just regional bias in NJ, but 12K isn't a "small town" as far as suburbs go, and enrollment of 900 kids isn't remotely small at all. In Wisconsin for example, 900 kids would be firmly D2, in about the 75-80th percentile for enrollment. In a school of roughly 450-500 boys, you're surprised they can field football and soccer teams that would take up about 75 roster spots?
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Speaking of cancel culture....
High schools in my area with decent sized enrollments are cancelling games and even the test of the season due to lack of healthy players. (Holland, Grand Haven)
Both are variations of lack of upperclassmen causing a lack of a JV squad, and then too many sophomores getting injured playing against the big boys.
I am trying to figure out if this is more about COVID interruption causing kids to lose interest and therefore a blip, or further signs of the decline of football.
youth football participation has been dropping for years before COVID. Before COVID in 2019 it was estimated there were 100,000 fewer kids playing football than the previous decade. This is where MU was smart to start LAX, kids who want to play a physical sport are not being allowed to play football and instead being steered to LAX all over the country.
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So much for conference realignment due to football in five years...
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So much for conference realignment due to football in five years...
there will always be football in the power conferences, but it's the smaller schools that are going to feel the pinch of smaller rosters.
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For what it's worth...
Last month, I was paired up with an old man at a local course near me (NW burbs of Chicago). He spent the whole round bitching and moaning about the lack of youth participation in football in the area. I know zero about this, so he was basically shouting into the wind (I should have had him join Scoop). Anyway, he stated he had been involved with youth football for over 40 years and the numbers gravely concerned him. He felt the local high school programs were going to be in trouble in the next 5 years.
It's amazing how far IL grade school kids are traveling these days for football games. I don't have any kids playing, but I hear of friends and neighbors routinely traveling 1-2 hours for 12yr old football games.
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It's amazing how far IL grade school kids are traveling these days for football games. I don't have any kids playing, but I hear of friends and neighbors routinely traveling 1-2 hours for 12yr old football games.
Yeah, he mentioned this. From what he was saying, the issue is being caused by a lack of kids coming out to play in the first place and a significantly greater melt rate of players as they age.
I know zero about this stuff, so I'm taking his word on it. He was definitely passionate and he had some takes about how this was the end of community and such that might even make Larry Fedora blush.
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My sister and brother-in-law live in a small town in central Wisconsin (2,500--3,000 pop.). Twenty-five years ago every one of those towns had their own football teams ( and I'm not talking about 7 man football either but full roster football). Now they have to combine with 2 other similarly situated neighboring towns to form ONE team. So School A is 12 miles from School B and School B is 10 miles from School C. So they have to find a centrally located place to practice 4 nights a week. Each town gets 1 or at most 2 "home" games a year. You're practicing and playing with guys, 2/3 of whom you don't go to school with and don't pal around with. Friday night football games in those towns used to be for community boding and we're a source of pride. Now, meh.
It's really no one's fault I guess. Times change, things change. But I think high school football in those small towns is really on its last leg. Sad.
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My son's high school's enrollment did not change, but they dropped down a classification because of the number of smaller schools going to 8-man teams.
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My sister and brother-in-law live in a small town in central Wisconsin (2,500--3,000 pop.). Twenty-five years ago every one of those towns had their own football teams ( and I'm not talking about 7 man football either but full roster football). Now they have to combine with 2 other similarly situated neighboring towns to form ONE team. So School A is 12 miles from School B and School B is 10 miles from School C. So they have to find a centrally located place to practice 4 nights a week. Each town gets 1 or at most 2 "home" games a year. You're practicing and playing with guys, 2/3 of whom you don't go to school with and don't pal around with. Friday night football games in those towns used to be for community boding and we're a source of pride. Now, meh.
It's really no one's fault I guess. Times change, things change. But I think high school football in those small towns is really on its last leg. Sad.
In small towns, I could see how the end or consolidation of the local football team could negatively impact community. But, as you state, times change and communities must adapt as well.
The comments that I heard were directly related to suburban Chicago communities. IMO, that's quite a leap as I don't believe many residents would consider their local high school football team to be a vital part of their community.
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If you listen to the so called"smart people" in sports-------the pundits, the talking heads, the fans, the network executives who pay the big money------they will ALL tell us that "football drives everything".
Yet when it comes to actual participation at the grade school and high school levels, interest appears to be wanting rapidly.
American football------the anomaly of all anomalies. We either discourage or outright forbid our kids from playing high school football, or we breathe a sigh of relief when they opt for soccer or cross country. But save me a seat in front of the TV for 10 hours every Saturday and Sunday so I can be entertained by some other guy's kid getting the chit pummeled out of him.
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My sister and brother-in-law live in a small town in central Wisconsin (2,500--3,000 pop.). Twenty-five years ago every one of those towns had their own football teams ( and I'm not talking about 7 man football either but full roster football). Now they have to combine with 2 other similarly situated neighboring towns to form ONE team. So School A is 12 miles from School B and School B is 10 miles from School C. So they have to find a centrally located place to practice 4 nights a week. Each town gets 1 or at most 2 "home" games a year. You're practicing and playing with guys, 2/3 of whom you don't go to school with and don't pal around with. Friday night football games in those towns used to be for community boding and we're a source of pride. Now, meh.
It's really no one's fault I guess. Times change, things change. But I think high school football in those small towns is really on its last leg. Sad.
Oh no, what will we do without more Power I football!?!?
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Youth football has been on the decline for years for many of the obvious reasons. There will still be some powerhouse programs that attract players, but I think you are going to see more and more "co-op" programs or schools dropping it all together.
And none of this will have much impact on what people watch on Sunday afternoons.
Ya'll been to Texas lately?
Or Florida?
Or anyplace in the deep south.
Football is alive and well.
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I wouldn't draw a line between youth participation and adult fandom. MMA is the fasting growing sport in terms of viewership and revenue. How many UFC fans have actually gotten in an octogan?
And while youth football participation rates have fallen, there are still more than enough players to populate the major collegiate and professional ranks. There were more than 1 million high school football players as of the 2020 season. Between FBS and FCS, there are fewer than 19,000 scholarships ... so still only one scholarship for every 53ish high school players.
If anyone loses here, it'll be the D-III schools that use the opportunity to play football as a recruitment tool. They may struggle to find enough kids interested in playing for free to field full rosters.
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And while youth football participation rates have fallen, there are still more than enough players to populate the major collegiate and professional ranks. There were more than 1 million high school football players as of the 2020 season. Between FBS and FCS, there are fewer than 19,000 scholarships ... so still only one scholarship for every 53ish high school players.
Yep. Further more...
Ya'll been to Texas lately?
Or Florida?
Or anyplace in the deep south.
Football is alive and well.
Exactly. Looking at Wisconsin and Illinois which have been talked about here...Look at the top 11 ranked programs right now (included #11 MSU just got a further upper Midwest benefit). There are 5 players TOTAL, among close to 500 roster spots, from Wisconsin. Not ND, not RI, Wisconsin, the 20th largest state in the country. If you take away the 2 B10 programs not named OSU in that list? 1 player.
Hell, expand to Illinois, one of the largest states in the US with a proud HS football tradition, 15 players total in those top 11 programs. Only 8 not including Michigan or MSU, and only 2 of those 8 were non-lineman.
If you're examining the fate of the NCAA or NFL football future, and how youth football feeds into it, look California, look at Ohio/Missouri/Pennsylvania, and look south of the Mason Dixon line. Not the northern states that aren't big drivers. Those southern states all have thriving youth football
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I'm not sure if its just regional bias in NJ, but 12K isn't a "small town" as far as suburbs go, and enrollment of 900 kids isn't remotely small at all. In Wisconsin for example, 900 kids would be firmly D2, in about the 75-80th percentile for enrollment. In a school of roughly 450-500 boys, you're surprised they can field football and soccer teams that would take up about 75 roster spots?
Well I used to live in Hamilton, just a mile from where I live now. Bordentown Township is approximately 12000 while Hamilton Township is about 100,000 about 8x larger. It's all relative. Hamilton has 3 high schools each with their own football team. New Jersey isn't crazy like Texas or the south in general, but football is still a very popular high school sport that the students and community still rally around.
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Yep. Further more...
Exactly. Looking at Wisconsin and Illinois which have been talked about here...Look at the top 11 ranked programs right now (included #11 MSU just got a further upper Midwest benefit). There are 5 players TOTAL, among close to 500 roster spots, from Wisconsin. Not ND, not RI, Wisconsin, the 20th largest state in the country. If you take away the 2 B10 programs not named OSU in that list? 1 player.
Hell, expand to Illinois, one of the largest states in the US with a proud HS football tradition, 15 players total in those top 11 programs. Only 8 not including Michigan or MSU, and only 2 of those 8 were non-lineman.
If you're examining the fate of the NCAA or NFL football future, and how youth football feeds into it, look California, look at Ohio/Missouri/Pennsylvania, and look south of the Mason Dixon line. Not the northern states that aren't big drivers. Those southern states all have thriving youth football
It might not show up in those areas yet but even some like Favre have stated they would discourage any sons from playing. It just might take longer to be a factor in those areas but 10-15 years down the road who can say?
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It might not show up in those areas yet but even some like Favre have stated they would discourage any sons from playing. It just might take longer to be a factor in those areas but 10-15 years down the road who can say?
I dont entirely disagree, just more that places like Wisconsin, Illinois, or other non-D1 football hotbeds aren't the best leading indicators.
As Pakuni said, the difference between places that feed lower level football programs and those that feed Powerhouse programs with strong NFL pipelines are noticeable.
My Milwaukee suburb HS was a really good team, won a WIAA title when I was there, and a couple more during the 11-12 year stretch my sisters and I attended. But there was only a couple legit D-1 players at most and it was a fun fall activity in town. Not like everything stopped on Friday nights. Stark contrast to stories I hear from my BIL who grew up in NE Texas or my friends in college from the Cincy/Louisville areas who revolved everything around HS football from their middle school years on.
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It might not show up in those areas yet but even some like Favre have stated they would discourage any sons from playing. It just might take longer to be a factor in those areas but 10-15 years down the road who can say?
Why take a chance of getting hurt when you can just steal money from the gov't?
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To become famous enough to steal money.
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I mean, eventually it will right, assuming the trend continues? I've always thought that the reason that the US isn't good at soccer is because our best athletes are going into football and basketball instead. Guys who are football and basketball pros in the states may have been soccer stars if they grew up in Europe or South America. If more and more of the best athletes go into basketball and soccer instead of football, won't that eventually impact the way the sports are viewed?
Eh. I never played organized football but I watch it all the time. I doubt I am alone.
Ditto my kids who played one year and hated it.
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Ya'll been to Texas lately?
Or Florida?
Or anyplace in the deep south.
Football is alive and well.
Football participation rates are declining in both Texas and Florida.
https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/texas-high-school-football/amp/
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/full-circle/decline-in-florida-football-leaves-high-schools-struggling-to-field-teams?_amp=true
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Football participation rates are declining in both Texas and Florida.
https://www.texasmonthly.com/articles/texas-high-school-football/amp/
https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/full-circle/decline-in-florida-football-leaves-high-schools-struggling-to-field-teams?_amp=true
Just checked. North Carolina down too.
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Maybe the NFL should underwrite amateur football teams in third world countries to get more kids to participate there. It wouldn't be long before Pro Football will be as full of foreign players as Pro Baseball.
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Maybe the NFL should underwrite amateur football teams in third world countries to get more kids to participate there. It wouldn't be long before Pro Football will be as full of foreign players as Pro Baseball.
You mean like all the players coming from Europe, a place that actually has football infrastructure and leagues? Or Canada?
Football isn't like baseball. The equipment demands and sport complexity make the barrier to entry much higher.
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You mean like all the players coming from Europe, a place that actually has football infrastructure and leagues? Or Canada?
Football isn't like baseball. The equipment demands and sport complexity make the barrier to entry much higher.
Yea, that comment doesn’t make a ton of sense to me. NFL Europe never really turned into the Minor League type of league some hoped for. I don’t think the NFL has thoughts of their games in Europe producing talent. Just dollars and eye balls.
I’m sure there may be more foreign players in the NFL in the future. However, I don’t think it’s going to turn into the NBA because the sport doesn’t have that much global reach from a participation standpoint. Much less MLB.
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I often wonder whether, at some point, insurance companies will stop covering tackle football for youth, middle school, and/or high schools (or at least make it prohibitively expensive). If that happened -- and I honestly wouldn't be too surprised -- it could mark the beginning of the end for the sport overall.
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I mean just because less high schoolers are playing it doesn’t mean it’s going away.
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I often wonder whether, at some point, insurance companies will stop covering tackle football for youth, middle school, and/or high schools (or at least make it prohibitively expensive). If that happened -- and I honestly wouldn't be too surprised -- it could mark the beginning of the end for the sport overall.
Football insurance is all surplus market now, no standard carrier would cover football. You are starting to see concussion exclusions being added to policies.
Head injuries are becoming a problem in soccer big time. Especially in the boys game.
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Maybe the B1G should reconsider UCLA joining the league. Maybe UCLA should drop football.
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/troy-aikman-rips-ucla-fan-base-lack-attendance-game-this-embarrassment
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Maybe the B1G should reconsider UCLA joining the league. Maybe UCLA should drop football.
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/troy-aikman-rips-ucla-fan-base-lack-attendance-game-this-embarrassment
I know its in teal, but it's all about the fact the BTN will not be over $1.50/subscriber in the LA market instead of the current 10 cents. UCLA can have zero people show up and the Big Ten will still consider the move a success.
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I know its in teal, but it's all about the fact the BTN will not be over $1.50/subscriber in the LA market instead of the current 10 cents. UCLA can have zero people show up and the Big Ten will still consider the move a success.
Still not a good look. With the Hispanic population in LA I think more eyes will be watching Futbol instead of Football.
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Still not a good look. With the Hispanic population in LA I think more eyes will be watching Futbol instead of Football.
Maybe, though Chivas USA tried to capitalize upon that and failed miserably. Also, remember there are so many Big Ten country expats in the LA area that ratings will be high. Trust me, sports starting at 9 am is pretty damn nice. For me, watch MU, and get on with my day.
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Maybe, though Chivas USA tried to capitalize upon that and failed miserably. Also, remember there are so many Big Ten country expats in the LA area that ratings will be high. Trust me, sports starting at 9 am is pretty damn nice. For me, watch MU, and get on with my day.
Nobody should watch Big Ten football immediately after breakfast
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Maybe, though Chivas USA tried to capitalize upon that and failed miserably. Also, remember there are so many Big Ten country expats in the LA area that ratings will be high. Trust me, sports starting at 9 am is pretty damn nice. For me, watch MU, and get on with my day.
Thats cause Chivas USA had terrible owners. They folded almost a decade ago, its a very different landscape. I don't love MLS but its grown exponentially since then and LA has 2 clubs thriving and tapping into that market.
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Not only were the owners of Chivas terrible, but I think the concept of trying to tap into a market using one team that plays in one league as a way to do that wasn't well thought through. There are more than Mexican Latinos in LA, and many of the Mexicans aren't Chivas fans.
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Not only were the owners of Chivas terrible, but I think the concept of trying to tap into a market using one team that plays in one league as a way to do that wasn't well thought through. There are more than Mexican Latinos in LA, and many of the Mexicans aren't Chivas fans.
Yea, especially since C.D. Guadalajara/Chivas in LigaMX is the only club to sign solely Mexican players. So you take a niche, pseduo-exclusionary club, and then try to expand them in a further niche way to a US market, it was a futile effort even if their owners weren't idiots.
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Sports in general are on a massive decline.
A few years ago when I helped run the cudahy youth sports program, our rec girls league was outfitted for 5 teams (a far cry from when I was a child with 12+ for each gender in a much smaller town)
We had 6 girls join. Not teams, girls. We partnered with Oak Creek, to make a total of 3 teams.
This year oak creek, cudahy, south milwaukee, and greenfield all partnered. To make 5 teams.
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Youth sports have evolved from the municipal little leagues to the insanity that is travel sports. I completely recognize your problem, unleash?. But how are the travel organizations doing in the area?
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Exactly. My kids had a wonderful youth baseball experience with at least 8 teams at each level - all kids from where we lived. That is all gone now due to the travelling teams taking many of the top players and parent volunteers with them. I doubt even half the kids are playing baseball because of this - and for what?
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Youth sports have evolved from the municipal little leagues to the insanity that is travel sports. I completely recognize your problem, unleash?. But how are the travel organizations doing in the area?
Travel ball in Milwaukee starts with kid pitch at 7u. I can't imagine how awful those games are. New "academies" opening every year, parents are mercenaries when it comes to switching teams.
I am amused by baseball recruiting twitter to see these kids playing for the big time travel ball teams that are committing to the local JUCO that they probably could have played for just by playing high school baseball.
We are a little more insulated from the academies in the Madison area, but new programs are still popping up all the time. We are lucky in that my 8th grade team truly has the best 12 kids in our town, none have migrated to academies. We compete with other good community teams and academy B teams.
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A great conversation I had with one of my fellow travel basketball coaches I had was very enlightening for myself about travel ball.
Backstory: our 5th grade travel basketball tryouts in cudahy went terrible. Of the 13 kids who tried out, one had any kind of talent. The rest were literally awful. And I mean, could not make a layup in 10 tries bad. Zero form, etc.
We honestly thought we were on candid camera.
We go on to explain to the head of the organization that the 5th grade team would be better served by joining the community rec league, not as an insult, but as an actual suggestion. I CORRECTLY prophesied that they would only score a single basket in a game.
The conversation:
After coaching one of their disasterious practices (they did NOT want to learn, mainly tackle on a wrestling mat)
my fellow coach with a son on a very good travel baseball team was conversing with a player on the 5th grade team. The child told him he played for GRB baseball out of milwaukee. A very well known travel team. This kid did not have an ounce of athletic ability.
My fellow coach looked at me and asked "What is Greg doing, stealing his money!?!?!?. I responded, "aren't we doing the same thing?" And I was correct.
That's the unfortunate state of travel ball now.
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A great conversation I had with one of my fellow travel basketball coaches I had was very enlightening for myself about travel ball.
Backstory: our 5th grade travel basketball tryouts in cudahy went terrible. Of the 13 kids who tried out, one had any kind of talent. The rest were literally awful. And I mean, could not make a layup in 10 tries bad. Zero form, etc.
We honestly thought we were on candid camera.
We go on to explain to the head of the organization that the 5th grade team would be better served by joining the community rec league, not as an insult, but as an actual suggestion. I CORRECTLY prophesied that they would only score a single basket in a game.
The conversation:
After coaching one of their disasterious practices (they did NOT want to learn, mainly tackle on a wrestling mat)
my fellow coach with a son on a very good travel baseball team was conversing with a player on the 5th grade team. The child told him he played for GRB baseball out of milwaukee. A very well known travel team. This kid did not have an ounce of athletic ability.
My fellow coach looked at me and asked "What is Greg doing, stealing his money!?!?!?. I responded, "aren't we doing the same thing?" And I was correct.
That's the unfortunate state of travel ball now.
My nephew in NJ is a similar age and similar experiences. He's a basketball NUT, has been going on playing with his Dad at the gym for his Sunday league games since he could walk. But he was only 8-9, so he was playing community rec ball in their town.
Not that kids at that age are bombing 3s and slick dribbling, but it was like Yakety Sax. Picture every stereotypical unathletic kid. Kids kicking the ball. Just picking up the ball and running. Being that its a heavily Jewish community, you had, swear on my life, kids throwing their yarmulkes at shots in the air.
So they decide, fine, he needs to play on a travel/select team. Signs up with the local program. Very well funded, slick jerseys, very nice everything...and maybe 2 kids other than my nephew that have ANY business playing leveled up basketball. My BIL told me that in the first scrimmage, my nephew hit a 3. The next 3 possessions, 3 other kids tried the exact kind of pull up 3...and all airballed them or glanced off the backboard. BIL said there is no way he's wasting money on this.
So he moved to a nearby team, he won't know any of his friends, and he won't be a starter right away, but its actually worth it from a development standpoint.
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Sports in general are on a massive decline.
A few years ago when I helped run the cudahy youth sports program, our rec girls league was outfitted for 5 teams (a far cry from when I was a child with 12+ for each gender in a much smaller town)
We had 6 girls join. Not teams, girls. We partnered with Oak Creek, to make a total of 3 teams.
This year oak creek, cudahy, south milwaukee, and greenfield all partnered. To make 5 teams.
I was told that more kids enrolled to play baseball in the Charlotte area this year than any time in history. My umpire coordinator is at wit's end because there aren't enough umps on his roster.
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I was a little league coach for my son. We had worked with a group of kids since they were 7. We played in some local tournaments against travel teams and started out as fodder. In addition to regular little league.
By the time this group was 11, as a little league team they went 19-2 and won their bracket of the area little league tournament. As All-Stars playing against 12 year olds, they won 2 games before getting edged out. Playing in local travel ball tourneys, we started making finals.
A bunch scattered over the winter without telling the coaches. To many different organizations. The ones left joined a travel team together and went to Cooperstown. Where we had a great time.
I thoroughly enjoyed helping those kids learn to love the game.
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A great conversation I had with one of my fellow travel basketball coaches I had was very enlightening for myself about travel ball.
Backstory: our 5th grade travel basketball tryouts in cudahy went terrible. Of the 13 kids who tried out, one had any kind of talent. The rest were literally awful. And I mean, could not make a layup in 10 tries bad. Zero form, etc.
We honestly thought we were on candid camera.
We go on to explain to the head of the organization that the 5th grade team would be better served by joining the community rec league, not as an insult, but as an actual suggestion. I CORRECTLY prophesied that they would only score a single basket in a game.
The conversation:
After coaching one of their disasterious practices (they did NOT want to learn, mainly tackle on a wrestling mat)
my fellow coach with a son on a very good travel baseball team was conversing with a player on the 5th grade team. The child told him he played for GRB baseball out of milwaukee. A very well known travel team. This kid did not have an ounce of athletic ability.
My fellow coach looked at me and asked "What is Greg doing, stealing his money!?!?!?. I responded, "aren't we doing the same thing?" And I was correct.
That's the unfortunate state of travel ball now.
GRB is one of the better programs, but outside of their top team at each age group, it's a money grab.
Their B team is one of the teams we can compete with. Their cost: $4000. Our cost: $275 plus uniforms. Played in 2 or 3 of the same tournaments this past summer.
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I was told that more kids enrolled to play baseball in the Charlotte area this year than any time in history. My umpire coordinator is at wit's end because there aren't enough umps on his roster.
The officials shortage is all sports, all ages, everywhere.
I could easily ref 6 or 7 u13-u19 soccer games each Saturday and Sunday, with 4 high school games and 3 more youth games during the week, all without leaving Dane County.
It's worse in the rural areas.
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I’ll never understand the fear of HS football.
We all have dozens and dozens of friends who played HS football. How are they today? There are tens of millions of HS football alums walking around and do you ever hear of their struggles? Does anyone know of 1 person with CTE issues related to HS football?
Would I want my son to play in the NFL? Not really but even there it’s safer than it’s ever been.
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I do. My son was in 4th grade and was talking about playing football starting in 5th grade. We were at a playoff football game involving his sister's former high school. Plus, playing for the team was the kid who had been my son's study buddy when my son was in first grade and the player was in 8th grade. (player is currently in the NFL)
Second half, routine play, suddenly there is a different player on the ground screaming and pounding the turf. His leg had been rolled up and it was clear from the bleachers that he had a tib/fib break. My son went silent and pale. I took him for a walk to keep him from watching and listening to the player's agony. My son asked to go home after the next series. He announced on the way home he was never playing football.
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The officials shortage is all sports, all ages, everywhere.
I could easily ref 6 or 7 u13-u19 soccer games each Saturday and Sunday, with 4 high school games and 3 more youth games during the week, all without leaving Dane County.
It's worse in the rural areas.
Yeah, as difficult as it is in places like Charlotte and Madison, I'll bet it's a total bear to field officiating crews for any sports in low-population areas.
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I do. My son was in 4th grade and was talking about playing football starting in 5th grade. We were at a playoff football game involving his sister's former high school. Plus, playing for the team was the kid who had been my son's study buddy when my son was in first grade and the player was in 8th grade. (player is currently in the NFL)
Second half, routine play, suddenly there is a different player on the ground screaming and pounding the turf. His leg had been rolled up and it was clear from the bleachers that he had a tib/fib break. My son went silent and pale. I took him for a walk to keep him from watching and listening to the player's agony. My son asked to go home after the next series. He announced on the way home he was never playing football.
My son was about that age when he saw Kevin Ware's bone peircing out of his skin (on National Television nonetheless). In less than two months he's going to try out for freshmen basketball. I honestly don't know where he finds the courage.
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Meh. I respect his choice.
"Dad, I don't think I would ever be as good at football as I am at baseball and it looks awfully easy to get hurt. "
He is a 5'9, 145 lb sophomore now, still loving baseball, band, and golf. He is just fine.
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https://www.mlive.com/highschoolsports/2022/09/school-of-1400-students-cancels-remainder-of-football-season-due-to-numbers-woes.html
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Cudahy HS (Milwaukee suburb) just cancelled the remainder of their season. Too many injuries/not enough players.
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Cudahy HS (Milwaukee suburb) just cancelled the remainder of their season. Too many injuries/not enough players.
That’s remarkable. They had a stretch where they were a powerhouse. John Navarre was from there and he played QB at Michigan and had a cup of tea in the NFL
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Waukesha South just canceled their remaining football games due to having too many players injured. I feel bad for the players and it's homecoming for them this weekend also.
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https://www.woodtv.com/sports/football-frenzy/football-teams-scramble-to-find-opponents-as-numbers-wane/
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https://www.mlive.com/highschoolsports/2022/09/school-of-1400-students-cancels-remainder-of-football-season-due-to-numbers-woes.html
That’s my nephew’s HS. Upper middle class school, lots of foreign cars in the student parking lot. Lacrosse is big there (state quarters), taking kids from football (my nephew among them). My HS in a rural, working class town, is going strong in football. It means more in towns like that. It’s kind of reviled in wealthier places like Okemos (which changed its mascot to Wolves from Chiefs last spring too).
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That’s my nephew’s HS. Upper middle class school, lots of foreign cars in the student parking lot. Lacrosse is big there (state quarters), taking kids from football (my nephew among them). My HS in a rural, working class town, is going strong in football. It means more in towns like that. It’s kind of reviled in wealthier places like Okemos (which changed its mascot to Wolves from Chiefs last spring too).
Impressive that you managed to get so many talking points into one paragraph.
Well done, Jr.!
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Two teams that had games canceled due to their opponents not having enough healthy players are now playing each other Friday night. Greenfield was supposed to play Cudahy and Waukesha North was supposed to play Waukesha South. Greenfield is traveling to Waukesha North on Friday to play them now.
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That’s my nephew’s HS. Upper middle class school, lots of foreign cars in the student parking lot. Lacrosse is big there (state quarters), taking kids from football (my nephew among them). My HS in a rural, working class town, is going strong in football. It means more in towns like that. It’s kind of reviled in wealthier places like Okemos (which changed its mascot to Wolves from Chiefs last spring too).
Broooo.
None of that has to do with why there are less kids playing football.
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That’s my nephew’s HS. Upper middle class school, lots of foreign cars in the student parking lot. Lacrosse is big there (state quarters), taking kids from football (my nephew among them). My HS in a rural, working class town, is going strong in football. It means more in towns like that. It’s kind of reviled in wealthier places like Okemos (which changed its mascot to Wolves from Chiefs last spring too).
Not sure about what's happening where you are, but in Illinois, many of the top high school football programs reside upper and upper-middle class communities.
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Not sure about what's happening where you are, but in Illinois, many of the top high school football programs reside upper and upper-middle class communities.
Same in Wisconsin, at least SE Wisconsin and Madison area
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Not sure about what's happening where you are, but in Illinois, many of the top high school football programs reside upper and upper-middle class communities.
Yep. Indiana's most successful are in the wealthy areas (Carmel, Center Grove), or Catholic Schools which recruit.
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My street is lined with signs in yards… “#XX on the football team”
Kind of weird. No signs in Dawson Garcia’s yard though.
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Chicos lied? Weird.
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Same in Wisconsin, at least SE Wisconsin and Madison area
Yea, looking at WI football, some of the most successful programs in the bigger divisions over the last 20 odd years have been Homestead, Arrowhead, the Brookfields, Waunakee, and Franklin. All affluent suburbs, especially the first 4. Not exactly reviled there.
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Yea, looking at WI football, some of the most successful programs in the bigger divisions over the last 20 odd years have been Homestead, Arrowhead, the Brookfields, Waunakee, and Franklin. All affluent suburbs, especially the first 4. Not exactly reviled there.
Is participation down? Yeah, I think so. Do I think other sports like LaCrosse are stealing kids? Sure. But affluent areas aren’t shying away from football in all of those areas. It’s probably anecdotal depending on the area
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Before everyone runs to soccer, please understand that it is not injury free either.
My son played football through his freshman year in high school. Worst injury was a modestly sprained ankle. He was a running back and defensive back who as he got older took a lot of hits. By the time he finished his freshman year, he was small and he saw the creatures on the other side of the line of scrimmage and said, "no!"
My daughter played soccer through grade school, high school, college and afterward. She was and is an injury waiting to happen. Two concussions, a badly injured ankle requiring surgery, injured knees, sprained wrists and assorted back sprains and I'm convinced soccer may be more dangerous than football. My daughter throws her heart and soul into her play and is fearless.
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Broooo.
None of that has to do with why there are less kids playing football.
Helicopter parents not wanting their kids to get hurt because of all of the info about CTE and the like? It’s the primary reason fewer kids are playing, especially when there are options like soccer and lacrosse.
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Helicopter parents not wanting their kids to get hurt because of all of the info about CTE and the like? It’s the primary reason fewer kids are playing, especially when there are options like soccer and lacrosse.
Go run that diesel chugging pickup truck of yours Cheeks.
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Before everyone runs to soccer, please understand that it is not injury free either.
My son played football through his freshman year in high school. Worst injury was a modestly sprained ankle. He was a running back and defensive back who as he got older took a lot of hits. By the time he finished his freshman year, he was small and he saw the creatures on the other side of the line of scrimmage and said, "no!"
My daughter played soccer through grade school, high school, college and afterward. She was and is an injury waiting to happen. Two concussions, a badly injured ankle requiring surgery, injured knees, sprained wrists and assorted back sprains and I'm convinced soccer may be more dangerous than football. My daughter throws her heart and soul into her play and is fearless.
I remember seeing something on TV a few years ago about how teen girls are especially vulnerable to concussions while playing soccer. It was a fairly long segment-not a quick story. I do not remember the physiology of it, but they are much more at risk than boys. Some who suffered concussions have what will probably be life long problems as a result.
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Helicopter parents not wanting their kids to get hurt because of all of the info about CTE and the like? It’s the primary reason fewer kids are playing, especially when there are options like soccer and lacrosse.
I don't think anyone disagrees that worries about head trauma and other injuries have played a big role in declining participation.
The pushback is against your implications that those rich kids with their fancy foreign cars (Kias and Nissans, I presume) just don't want to play football no more and their communities revile the sport.
Reality, at least where I and others here live, says otherwise.
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Helicopter parents not wanting their kids to get hurt because of all of the info about CTE and the like? It’s the primary reason fewer kids are playing, especially when there are options like soccer and lacrosse.
Assuming that "helicopter parents," to you, is a negative thing (it is to me, too) ... I guess I'm wondering why you think only helicopter parents want to keep their kids out of a sport that can damage their brains and/or bodies for life? You don't think lots of regular, everyday, non-helicopter parents prefer that their kids avoid football? Several Scoopers have said they don't want their kids playing football; are they all "helicopter parents"?
And BTW ... nets to protect fans (and to protect teams from lawsuits) haven't ruined baseball.
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Parents should be making decisions about their kids health (head injuries).
Professional players KNOW the risk of head injuries and have made the decision that the risk is worth it to set up their families financial futures. That is not a decision for kids to make.
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Maybe people are just wising up to the reality that football is 15 minutes of action wrapped into 4 hours of broadcast.
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Helicopter parents not wanting their kids to get hurt because of all of the info about CTE and the like? It’s the primary reason fewer kids are playing, especially when there are options like soccer and lacrosse.
Yeah, but then just say that. Because we all agree on that.
The bit you posted was not related.
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Maybe people are just wising up to the reality that football is 15 minutes of action wrapped into 4 hours of broadcast.
Hey, that's college football.
NFL football is 15 minutes of action wrapped into 3 hours of broadcast!
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Maybe people are just wising up to the reality that football is 15 minutes of action wrapped into 4 hours of broadcast.
75 of the 100 most watched programs last year were NFL games, including 28 of the top 30.
Seven others were college football games.
Seems like there are still a few suckers out there.
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75 of the 100 most watched programs last year were NFL games, including 28 of the top 30.
Seven others were college football games.
Seems like there are still a few suckers out there.
Yeah. And how many minutes of actual activity is there in baseball or golf?
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Yeah. And how many minutes of actual activity is there in baseball or golf?
For me? A lot in golf
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Is walking part of golf? If so, frequently 100% for me. Bit if I only make 75 swings/putts in 150 minutes....
From the time I get over the ball to start my process until the time it stops moving is probably 12 minutes per round.
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Is walking part of golf? If so, frequently 100% for me. Bit if I only make 75 swings/putts in 150 minutes....
From the time I get over the ball to start my process until the time it stops moving is probably 12 minutes per round.
I like to take 12-15 practice swings and line myself up correctly at least three times before swinging
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I've played behind you.
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I've played behind you.
I’m playing for shop credit
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I admire the guy plumb-bobbing his third putt for an eight. Don't give up, buddy. And when you miss, and you will, mark yourself down for a 6.
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I admire the guy plumb-bobbing his third putt for an eight. Don't give up, buddy. And when you miss, and you will, mark yourself down for a 6.
Worse than that, he marks his ball each time he misses
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I like to take 12-15 practice swings and line myself up correctly at least three times before swinging
Sergio?
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75 of the 100 most watched programs last year were NFL games, including 28 of the top 30.
Seven others were college football games.
Seems like there are still a few suckers out there.
I wasn't actually suggesting that this was the reason for declining football numbers. Just taking a shot at football for shiggles
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Is walking part of golf? If so, frequently 100% for me. Bit if I only make 75 swings/putts in 150 minutes....
From the time I get over the ball to start my process until the time it stops moving is probably 12 minutes per round.
You never take a practice swing or a practice putt? I play fast, but….
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When I am playing WELL, not many. On the tee, usually only if I am going to try to draw the ball. Out of the fairway, only if I have an uneven lie. On a straightforward chip, no. If it is one where I am going to have to bounce it through the fringe a couple of times to have it trickle out and fall to the hole, I will take a couple. If I am going to try a flop shot or hit a ball out of the rough, I will swing to feel the thickness of the grass. Putting, if it is a relatively straightforward putt, no, I will pick my line and go. If there is a ton of slope, I will take a couple practice putts to feel the pace.
If I develop a glitch, I have a couple of practice swing thoughts that I use to get my driver swing back. I have fought my irons this year. On days where I am really fighting it, I will take a practice swing, usually in a way that focuses on tempo.
I think today I probably took 15 practice swings tee to green. Probably 3-4 around the green. 3-4 on the green. But it is my home course and I was playing well.
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Yeah, but then just say that. Because we all agree on that.
The bit you posted was not related.
It feels like Billy was trying to be real clever and make multiple points simultaneously, but somehow managed to make none of them successfully.
Truly a Chicosesque effort.
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Division III Whittier College recently announced that it is discontinuing its football team, men’s lacrosse and men’s and women’s golf.
One of the decision factors was the declining participation in high school football.
“According to data from the Aspen Institute and the National Federation of State High School Associations, football is in decline across the United States. From 2008-09 to 2018-19, the total number of youth aged 6 to 18 playing tackle football fell by more than 620,000 participants from about 2.5 million to less than 1.9 million. Over the same decade, attendance at top-level college games declined by almost 10 percent,” said a Whittier statement. “Among higher education, Whittier is not alone in evaluating its football program. Over the past 30 years, 14 California four-year colleges, including [Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference] rivals Occidental and CalTech, have dropped football from their intercollegiate rosters. In addition, there is growing concern around contact sports–lacrosse and football—and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), a degenerative brain disease found in athletes and others with a history of repetitive brain trauma. When it comes to the health of our student-athletes, we must take this concern seriously.”
https://www.whittier.edu/news/tue-11152022-340-pm/whittier-college-makes-changes-poet-athletics (https://www.whittier.edu/news/tue-11152022-340-pm/whittier-college-makes-changes-poet-athletics)
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Division III Whittier College recently announced that it is discontinuing its football team, men’s lacrosse and men’s and women’s golf.
One of the decision factors was the declining participation in high school football.
https://www.whittier.edu/news/tue-11152022-340-pm/whittier-college-makes-changes-poet-athletics (https://www.whittier.edu/news/tue-11152022-340-pm/whittier-college-makes-changes-poet-athletics)
No mention of the fact that they've won five games total over the last ten seasons, and haven't won a single game the last two seasons with a 30+ margin of defeat in all but two games.
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No mention of the fact that they've won five games total over the last ten seasons, and haven't won a single game the last two seasons with a 30+ margin of defeat in all but two games.
Additionally, its a school of under 1500 kids that is more than 50% Hispanic. Id imagine the football centric student dynamic is limited compared to other sports, especially in SoCal.
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No mention of the fact that they've won five games total over the last ten seasons, and haven't won a single game the last two seasons with a 30+ margin of defeat in all but two games.
They kind of did, but obviously there is no point belaboring how bad the football team is/was:
"Admittedly, the Poet programs sunsetting at this time are disproportionately more expensive to sustain than other sports that have thrived and remained competitive within our SCIAC conference. Our goal is to focus on the athletic teams that can be best supported on campus and via conference play."
Whittier is a pretty good SCIAC team in some sports, football obviously not being one of them. Brown, who is also not competitive in a number of sports in the Ivy, did something similar a year or two ago, cutting a bunch of sports that they sucked in and that were expensive.
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No mention of the fact that they've won five games total over the last ten seasons, and haven't won a single game the last two seasons with a 30+ margin of defeat in all but two games.
Anybody can have a bad decade.