RIP Mikhail Gorbachev

[Uncle Rico]

Passed away today at age 92, one of the most important people of the 20th Century who presided over the reform and collapse of the Soviet Union.  More importantly, stood aside as the Iron Curtain fell

[JWags85]

Legit thought he died over a decade ago.  RIP

[The Sultan]

His legacy must be pretty complicated in Russia.

[Uncle Rico]

His legacy must be pretty complicated in Russia.

I'll be curious the reaction to the news there

[Herman Cain]

I'll be curious the reaction to the news there

His legacy must be pretty complicated in Russia.

Here is what The Russians have to say about Gorby
https://www.rt.com/russia/558272-gorbachev-dies-soviet-leader/

[Uncle Rico]

Here is what The Russians have to say about Gorby
https://www.rt.com/russia/558272-gorbachev-dies-soviet-leader/

Russia Today doesn't speak for all of Russia

[Herman Cain]

Russia Today doesn't speak for all of Russia

Was a very long and balanced article . Went into detail on his complicated legacy.

[Uncle Rico]

Was a very long and balanced article . Went into detail on his complicated legacy with.

Ok

[Hards Alumni]

His legacy must be pretty complicated in Russia.

It isn't.  He is widely hated.

[Merit Matters]

Lol, what a post.

[Billy Hoyle]

Here is what The Russians have to say about Gorby
https://www.rt.com/russia/558272-gorbachev-dies-soviet-leader/

Good article, and the comments section is pure insanity.

[Jockey]

His legacy must be pretty complicated in Russia.

He is almost universally detested there. Maybe 5% of people think he was a hero. The other 95% think he was the most destructive ruler in Russian history. He broke up the modern Russian Empire.

Not just my opinion. I was listening to a guy yesterday talking about his place in Russian history. A journalist who is now an Editor at The Atlantic. I believed he worked for the Times back then and was Chief Russian correspondent.

[Jockey]

The bad news is that now if I want to look at the country of Albania, I need to use a map.

[Uncle Rico]

He is almost universally detested there. Maybe 5% of people think he was a hero. The other 95% think he was the most destructive ruler in Russian history. He broke up the modern Russian Empire.

Not my opinion. I was listening to a guy yesterday talking about his place in Russian history. A journalist who is now an Editor at The Atlantic. I believed he worked for the Times back then and was Chief Russian correspondent.

I saw one of his former critics say, "he gave us freedom and we threw it away."

The everyday Russian has been a fascinating character study through the centuries.  Pessimistic people uncertain of their place in their country and the world at large

[Hards Alumni]

Lol, what a post.

I assume this was directed at my post.

You're going to need to expand.  Ol Gorby is certainly not looked upon favorably in Russia. 

[Merit Matters]

I assume this was directed at my post.

You're going to need to expand.  Ol Gorby is certainly not looked upon favorably in Russia.

It wasn't, just the topic in general. I agree with you about him in Russia. I think we should be saying good riddance instead of RIP.

[Billy Hoyle]

I saw one of his former critics say, "he gave us freedom and we threw it away."

The everyday Russian has been a fascinating character study through the centuries.  Pessimistic people uncertain of their place in their country and the world at large

That's not uncommon when dictatorships fall. It's like Stockholm Syndrome. The older population looks back on the "old times," and there are certain aspects of life then they long for. Look at the Philippines. They elected the son of Ferdinand Marcos, whose father declared martial law and looted billions. Older people didn't care about that, they cared that there was far less crime, less income disparity, and far less drug use (a major issue there), and they focus on that. I think a lot of older Russians have the same viewpoint. There was less freedom but more fiscal stability for people (at least how they remember it). and they were one of the two hegemons on the world scene. They blame Gorby for taking that away. What does a Russian have to be proud about today?

[Uncle Rico]

That's not uncommon when dictatorships fall. It's like Stockholm Syndrome. The older population looks back on the "old times," and there are certain aspects of life then they long for. Look at the Philippines. They elected the son of Ferdinand Marcos, whose father declared martial law and looted billions. Older people didn't care about that, they cared that there was far less crime, less income disparity, and far less drug use (a major issue there), and they focus on that. I think a lot of older Russians have the same viewpoint. There was less freedom but more fiscal stability for people (at least how they remember it). and they were one of the two hegemons on the world scene. They blame Gorby for taking that away. What does a Russian have to be proud about today?

In Soviet Russia, drinking was a major problem and when people couldn't find booze, they made their own stuff that was literally poison.  Same thing happens today but I get your point about remember when.  It's a thing that happens everywhere, regardless of a nations current and former states of being

[Hards Alumni]

In Soviet Russia, drinking was a major problem and when people couldn't find booze, they made their own stuff that was literally poison.  Same thing happens today but I get your point about remember when.  It's a thing that happens everywhere, regardless of a nations current and former states of being

You should check out alcohol consumption in Russia since the end of the USSR.

[Billy Hoyle]

In Soviet Russia, drinking was a major problem and when people couldn't find booze, they made their own stuff that was literally poison.  Same thing happens today but I get your point about remember when.  It's a thing that happens everywhere, regardless of a nations current and former states of being

My wife's family had to flee the Philippines because of Marcos. She's apoplectic they elected the son, Bongbong (trust me, Filipinos have ridiculous nicknames. Every family has a "Buboy"). The corruption, suspension of habeas corpus, mass jailings, torture, disappearances and killings. But, like there was with Dueterte (my wife's uncle, not something she's proud of), people overlook that and think about how the economy was thriving; infrastructure was developed and there was peace and order. Forget the other stuff.

What is stunning about Russia and many of the former republics (not the Baltics) is a fondness within parts of the population for Stalinism. Those people blame Gorby for their lives not being better than what they remember. But younger people are falling into that trap too as they hear all about "social stability" and "economic security" with less "injustice" in distribution. Freedom? Meh, overrated. And if you weren't doing anything wrong you didn't need to worry about the KGB.

[Uncle Rico]

My wife's family had to flee the Philippines because of Marcos. She's apoplectic they elected the son, Bongbong (trust me, Filipinos have ridiculous nicknames. Every family has a "Buboy"). The corruption, suspension of habeas corpus, mass jailings, torture, disappearances and killings. But, like there was with Dueterte (my wife's uncle, not something she's proud of), people overlook that and think about how the economy was thriving; infrastructure was developed and there was peace and order. Forget the other stuff.

What is stunning about Russia and many of the former republics (not the Baltics) is a fondness within parts of the population for Stalinism. Those people blame Gorby for their lives not being better than what they remember. But younger people are falling into that trap too as they hear all about "social stability" and "economic security" with less "injustice" in distribution. Freedom? Meh, overrated. And if you weren't doing anything wrong you didn't need to worry about the KGB.

I'm old enough to remember the Marcos regime and the excitement when they were finally gone.  Hard to imagine a return to that but here we are.