collapse

* Recent Posts

ND Roll Call by MurphysTillClose
[Today at 01:15:18 AM]


Big East Poll and NET Rankings by bilsu
[Today at 12:57:57 AM]


MU Scoop Brian Wordle 12.9.22 by Dr. Blackheart
[December 08, 2022, 11:20:32 PM]


NM by ZiggysFryBoy
[December 08, 2022, 10:54:28 PM]


2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread by DoctorV
[December 08, 2022, 09:47:44 PM]


Remember, Remember, by DoctorV
[December 08, 2022, 09:44:29 PM]


Big East Results 22-23 by GoldenEagles03
[December 08, 2022, 08:55:53 PM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!


Author Topic: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.  (Read 2090 times)


Sultan Sultanberger

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8351
  • Send it in medium-sized fella!
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2022, 01:09:05 PM »
Below are the budgetary results for President Clinton's two terms in office:

Sorry, guess he turned it around.

He had budget surpluses for fiscal years 1998–2001, the only such years from 1970 to 2018. Clinton's final four budgets were balanced budgets with surpluses, beginning with the 1997 budget.
The ratio of debt held by the public to GDP, a primary measure of U.S. federal debt, fell from 47.8% in 1993 to 33.6% by 2000. Debt held by the public was actually paid down by $453 billion over the 1998-2001 periods, the only time this happened between 1970 and 2018.
Federal spending fell from 20.7% GDP in 1993 to 17.6% GDP in 2000, below the historical average (1966 to 2015) of 20.2%


Mostly due to increase tax revenues due to the creation of a higher tax bracket and capital gains income due to a white hot stock market - the latter of which wasn't going to be easily replicated.

But tell me, how long have you been worried about the national debt?  30-40 years?  And yet over that time, the United States has remained one of the highest performing countries economically.  Do you think your concerns may be overblown?
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Hards Alumni

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5722
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2022, 01:13:42 PM »

Mostly due to increase tax revenues due to the creation of a higher tax bracket and capital gains income due to a white hot stock market - the latter of which wasn't going to be easily replicated.

But tell me, how long have you been worried about the national debt?  30-40 years?  And yet over that time, the United States has remained one of the highest performing countries economically.  Do you think your concerns may be overblown?

They are.  Economists don't worry.  Politicians use it to shoe horn it into conversations to drum up support from 'fiscal conservatives' who don't understand things like fractional reserve, quantitative easing, GDP, and bond ratings.  It's literally the 'Caravans of migrants at the border!' for fiscal conservatives... who don't actually exist in the US congress.

Uncle Rico

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4969
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #78 on: September 01, 2022, 01:21:37 PM »
They are.  Economists don't worry.  Politicians use it to shoe horn it into conversations to drum up support from 'fiscal conservatives' who don't understand things like fractional reserve, quantitative easing, GDP, and bond ratings.  It's literally the 'Caravans of migrants at the border!' for fiscal conservatives... who don't actually exist in the US congress.

“Tea Party Conservative” “Family Values Republican” make me laugh out loud.

Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 19469
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2022, 01:24:30 PM »
Below are the budgetary results for President Clinton's two terms in office:

Sorry, guess he turned it around.

He had budget surpluses for fiscal years 1998–2001, the only such years from 1970 to 2018. Clinton's final four budgets were balanced budgets with surpluses, beginning with the 1997 budget.
The ratio of debt held by the public to GDP, a primary measure of U.S. federal debt, fell from 47.8% in 1993 to 33.6% by 2000. Debt held by the public was actually paid down by $453 billion over the 1998-2001 periods, the only time this happened between 1970 and 2018.
Federal spending fell from 20.7% GDP in 1993 to 17.6% GDP in 2000, below the historical average (1966 to 2015) of 20.2%

It's cool that you're disappointed that America didn't elect another Clinton and also raise taxes.
"We have a severe problem in American life today called the assault on truth." -- Pulitzer Prize winning New Yorker editor David Remnick

MUeng

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 566
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #80 on: September 01, 2022, 01:33:02 PM »
OK, but why go to Mars?
a trip to Mars, or something similar like James Webb,  involves tremendous engineering and science, not to mention imagination. Webb has inspired a new generation of stem bound kiddos and if my daughter and son are inspired enough by Webb to go into stem, then mission accomplished. Perhaps they wont do space but something that helps others via science. And I assume many other young girls and boys are inspired. That's why we go

Sultan Sultanberger

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8351
  • Send it in medium-sized fella!
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #81 on: September 01, 2022, 01:42:41 PM »
Aren't there a lot more efficient ways to encourage children to go into STEM fields? Or fund scientific innovation?

And don't get me wrong. The James Webb telescope is a great accomplishment that I fully support. But it is about 10% the budget of the Artemis project - and that's only to get people to the Moon.

That is my biggest problem with this. It is orders of magnitude more expensive to include human travel into space exploration. And I don't think that is worth the extra $90 billion or so when compared to unmanned exploration.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

NCMUFan

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2139
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #82 on: September 01, 2022, 02:20:12 PM »
For enlightened MUSpoop elitest.

The National Debt Affects Everyone
Given that the national debt has recently grown faster than the size of the American population, it is fair to wonder how this growing debt affects average individuals. While it may not be obvious, national debt levels directly affect people in at least five ways.

First, as the national debt per capita increases, the likelihood of the government defaulting on its debt service obligation increases, and therefore the Treasury Department will have to raise the yield on newly issued treasury securities to attract new investors.

This reduces the amount of tax revenue available to spend on other governmental services because more tax revenue will have to be paid out as interest on the national debt. Over time, this shift in expenditures will cause people to experience a lower standard of living, as borrowing for economic enhancement projects becomes more difficult.

Second, as the rate offered on treasury securities increases, corporations operating in America will be viewed as riskier, necessitating an increase in the yield on newly issued bonds. This, in turn, will require corporations to raise the price of their products and services to meet the increased cost of their debt service obligation. Over time, this will cause people to pay more for goods and services, resulting in inflation.

Third, as the yield offered on treasury securities increases, the cost of borrowing money to purchase a home will increase because the cost of money in the mortgage lending market is directly tied to the short-term interest rates set by the Federal Reserve and the yield offered on treasury securities.

Given this established interrelationship, an increase in interest rates will push home prices down, because prospective home buyers will no longer qualify for as large of a mortgage loan since they will have to pay more of their money to cover the interest expense on the loan they receive. The result will be more downward pressure on the value of homes, which in turn will reduce the net worth of all homeowners.

Fourth, since the yield on U.S. Treasury securities is currently considered a risk-free rate of return, and as the yield on these securities increases, risky investments such as corporate debt and equity investments will lose appeal.

This phenomenon is a direct result of the fact it will be more difficult for corporations to generate enough pre-tax income to offer a high enough risk premium on their bonds and stock dividends to justify investing in their company. This dilemma is known as the crowding out effect and tends to encourage the growth in the size of the government and the simultaneous reduction in the size of the private sector.

Fifth, and perhaps most importantly, as the risk of a country defaulting on its debt service obligation increases, the country loses its social, economic, and political power. This, in turn, makes the national debt level a national security issue.

The Bottom Line
The national debt level is one of the most important public policy issues. When debt is used appropriately, it can be used to foster the long-term growth and prosperity of a country. However, the national debt must be evaluated in an appropriate manner, such as comparing the amount of interest expense paid to other governmental expenditures or by comparing debt levels on a per capita basis.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/10/national-debt.asp
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 02:33:57 PM by NCMUFan »

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 19260
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #83 on: September 01, 2022, 02:39:14 PM »
Cut military spending.   Quit giving tax credits to billionaires and companies making record profits.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

TSmith34

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4046
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #84 on: September 01, 2022, 03:10:41 PM »
Geeze, I would have thought all these great inventions would have created tremendous tax revenues to keep the government out of debt.
A department that accounts for .25% - .50% of annual Federal spending should throw off so much in profits that when those profits are taxed at (pick a number) 30% they should cover the deficit spending of all the rest of the government? I'm sure you are well aware this is a specious argument.

Pooba of Biggot Buffons

lawdog77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1574
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #85 on: September 01, 2022, 03:22:44 PM »
Here's the list of agencies and their budgetary resources.

 https://www.usaspending.gov/agency

NCMUFan

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2139
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #86 on: September 01, 2022, 03:25:14 PM »
Thanks, good info.

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3058
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #87 on: September 01, 2022, 03:28:06 PM »
Did you mean 22 years ago under Clinton?
The $ just isn't worth to much is it?

Actually, 22 years ago the debt was just not increasing. 

(Answered.  Never mind.)

« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 03:31:01 PM by MU Fan in Connecticut »

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3058
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #88 on: September 01, 2022, 03:29:02 PM »
You're missing the point of every tangential benefit to NASA.  For 60+ years, NASA has been unintentionally inventing products that improve human life as it attempts to solve problems with space travel.  So there is 60+ years of track record showing that an attempt to travel to/inhabit/colonize Mars will not just make humans "interplanetary", but more realistically will create 10s, if not hundreds, of new technologies or uses for existing tech, that will make the lives of normal earthbound people.  Thats why you keep pushing

This.  Thanks Wags.

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3058
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #89 on: September 01, 2022, 03:32:15 PM »
“Tea Party Conservative” “Family Values Republican” make me laugh out loud.

And the Tea Party is/was fully funded by the Koch Brother(s). 

Hards Alumni

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5722
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #90 on: September 01, 2022, 04:49:47 PM »
For enlightened MUSpoop elitest.

The National Debt Affects Everyone
Given that the national debt has recently grown faster than the size of the American population, it is fair to wonder how this growing debt affects average individuals. While it may not be obvious, national debt levels directly affect people in at least five ways.

First, as the national debt per capita increases, the likelihood of the government defaulting on its debt service obligation increases, and therefore the Treasury Department will have to raise the yield on newly issued treasury securities to attract new investors.

This reduces the amount of tax revenue available to spend on other governmental services because more tax revenue will have to be paid out as interest on the national debt. Over time, this shift in expenditures will cause people to experience a lower standard of living, as borrowing for economic enhancement projects becomes more difficult.

Second, as the rate offered on treasury securities increases, corporations operating in America will be viewed as riskier, necessitating an increase in the yield on newly issued bonds. This, in turn, will require corporations to raise the price of their products and services to meet the increased cost of their debt service obligation. Over time, this will cause people to pay more for goods and services, resulting in inflation.

Third, as the yield offered on treasury securities increases, the cost of borrowing money to purchase a home will increase because the cost of money in the mortgage lending market is directly tied to the short-term interest rates set by the Federal Reserve and the yield offered on treasury securities.

Given this established interrelationship, an increase in interest rates will push home prices down, because prospective home buyers will no longer qualify for as large of a mortgage loan since they will have to pay more of their money to cover the interest expense on the loan they receive. The result will be more downward pressure on the value of homes, which in turn will reduce the net worth of all homeowners.

Fourth, since the yield on U.S. Treasury securities is currently considered a risk-free rate of return, and as the yield on these securities increases, risky investments such as corporate debt and equity investments will lose appeal.

This phenomenon is a direct result of the fact it will be more difficult for corporations to generate enough pre-tax income to offer a high enough risk premium on their bonds and stock dividends to justify investing in their company. This dilemma is known as the crowding out effect and tends to encourage the growth in the size of the government and the simultaneous reduction in the size of the private sector.

Fifth, and perhaps most importantly, as the risk of a country defaulting on its debt service obligation increases, the country loses its social, economic, and political power. This, in turn, makes the national debt level a national security issue.

The Bottom Line
The national debt level is one of the most important public policy issues. When debt is used appropriately, it can be used to foster the long-term growth and prosperity of a country. However, the national debt must be evaluated in an appropriate manner, such as comparing the amount of interest expense paid to other governmental expenditures or by comparing debt levels on a per capita basis.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/10/national-debt.asp

Nice of you to call me elitist!  Tell me the number of trillions that I should be worried about. 

Most of the national debt ($24 trillion) is owed to US citizens.  Tax rates can be raised (since we seem to have no problem cutting them constantly) from the populace or businesses to cover the debt we have.  Alternatively, we can reduce spending.  This isn't some run away freight train that can't be stopped.

Also, You need to consider that US treasuries are the safest in the world and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.  People and governments worldwide will continue to invest in the US for this exact reason.  They will continue to use and pay for things in dollars. 

Jockey

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1645
  • “We want to get rid of the ballots"
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #91 on: September 01, 2022, 05:05:01 PM »
Actually, 22 years ago the debt was just not increasing. 

(Answered.  Never mind.)

Actually the National Debt increased every year under Clinton.

That being said, I disagree with just about everything NCMUfan said.

NCMUFan

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2139
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #92 on: September 01, 2022, 05:13:01 PM »
Just being the difference.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 05:55:08 PM by NCMUFan »

NCMUFan

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2139
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #93 on: September 03, 2022, 03:02:28 PM »
Artemis 1 having a little difficulty getting off the launch pad.

NCMUFan

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2139
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #94 on: November 18, 2022, 03:57:25 PM »
NASA did it, two days ago.
Us Scoopers are slipping.

ZiggysFryBoy

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4716
  • MEDITERRANEAN TACOS!
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #95 on: November 18, 2022, 04:30:20 PM »
NASA did it, two days ago.
Us Scoopers are slipping.

Fake.  That was Rico taking a shìt.

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4432
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #96 on: November 20, 2022, 01:28:37 AM »
???  He was responding to Jockey.

I understand why its easier to go to Mars from the Moon rather than from Earth. I just don't understand why we are sending humans to Mars - or even to the Moon. We have the capability to send probes and rovers.  We are even proposing to retrieve some samples. Which is really cool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_sample-return_mission


Because the technology we develop to get to the point we can go to Mars will revolutionize tons of fields, and is a reasonable deliverable to excite people.

Space travel and the associated technological developments are a massive ROI for the minuscule dollars the government invests in it.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2022, 01:34:15 AM by forgetful »

Sultan Sultanberger

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8351
  • Send it in medium-sized fella!
Re: NASA takes first step toward landing on the moon.
« Reply #97 on: November 20, 2022, 06:35:59 AM »

Because the technology we develop to get to the point we can go to Mars will revolutionize tons of fields, and is a reasonable deliverable to excite people.

Space travel and the associated technological developments are a massive ROI for the minuscule dollars the government invests in it.

Space exploration is a wonderful investment for all the reasons you state.  I think the ROI becomes A LOT more problematic when you have to incur the costs of keeping humans alive and returning them home.

I also don't believe there will be as much excitement and you suggest. It's not the 1960s.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow