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Author Topic: Norman Commits  (Read 11676 times)

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #125 on: September 08, 2022, 11:40:27 AM »
Ivy League schools don't offer athletic scholarships

Are they doing NILs? Curious

brewcity77

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #126 on: September 08, 2022, 12:05:08 PM »
This is for the most part simply wrong. Let's go through it:

This whole "culture" thing is so nauseating.  Like all sports at all level, winning creates good culture.  And you win by accumulating talent.

Hard disagree. Sure, you have to find talent and winning helps, but we've seen example after example of teams that failed when they tried to add talent too quickly and then elevated the program when they focused on development over talent. Baylor lost for four straight years under Drew, then became an occasional tourney team while going after the Perry Jones/Quincy Miller types. Eventually, he moved away from the top, top talent and went back to developing in the Culture of Joy, which turned them into one of the elite programs and national title winners. Villanova did the same when Jay chased Yarou and Wayns, only to realize he did better with the 50-150 ranked kids than the truly elite ones.

Once you establish culture with long-term recruits, adding the occasional stud, whether a Kendall Brown or Keyonte George at Baylor, or an Omari Spellman or Jalen Brunson at Villanova, works well, but you need the culture first. See also: Memphis.

Sure, if there's a 2021 version of Antonio Brown, yes, many coaches will stay away from that.  But beyond that, Shaka isn't passing up on talent because they don't cheer their teammates on hard enough in the weight room.

Shaka isn't avoiding recruiting one and done talent because he's not interested in guys who won't be here for four years.  He's not recruiting one and done talent because he knows he can't compete with the Kentuckys of the world in this day and age.

Jarrett Allen, Mo Bamba, and Greg Brown were all top-20, All-Americans that Shaka recruited in a five year span. He had three straight top-10 recruiting classes from 2016-18, followed by #17 in 2019 and a lower ranked class in 2020 but because he only brought in one player, #9 overall Greg Brown. He has the ability to get those types. Not at a Kentucky or Duke consistency level, but he has shown he can get top talent, while also showing that he doesn't win at the highest level when he's running his program through those guys.

So, let's hope he can coach them up.  But let's not stick our noses up at talent and pretend we don't want it because "culture."  We've turned into Badger fans since Shaka arrived.

I certainly don't think we don't want talent. But it is obvious that Shaka's approach is to build a culture first. I don't think it's an accident that our offers and recruits in 2021, 2022, and 2023 were to players outside the top-50, aside from local kids. And when guys blew up (Justin Edwards, for instance) we pulled out. I also don't think it's an accident that in 2024, we are going after a number of fringe five-stars. You build the culture and once the 21, 22, and 23 kids are sophomores, juniors, and seniors, you fill in the holes with top talent.

In the later years, Wojo tried to do the same. Get a core of guys like Howard, Theo, Sacar, and the Hausers, then try to fill in the holes with the Grimes/Mannion/Carton types. He missed some of those big swings, but in recent years that's been the winning formula for a number of programs. 2022 Kansas (Agbaji, Braun, Harris), 2021 Baylor (Teague, Flagler, Butler, Mayer), 2019 Virginia (Hunter, Clark), and 2018 Nova (Paschall, DiVincenzo, Bridges, Booth) all mined for sub-50 gold to form their core and once they established their culture, put the best talent they could around that.

Eschewing the top talent until you have your culture established isn't a revolutionary strategy Shaka came up with, it's pretty much the exact format every national title winner since 2016 Villanova has followed. It remains to be seen if Shaka will find that level of success with this. He did build a mid-major juggernaut at VCU but never got the top-tier recruiting to that level and the F4 run was still a bit of a fluke. He had some good teams at Texas and got top talent, but never was able to continually establish his team at a commensurate level to his VCU teams relative to the A10/CAA.

What he's doing here over the long term looks to be a hybrid of the two that follows a model like Wright, Drew, and Bennett have used. We'll see if it works, but honestly, if the choice is between one year of an immensely talented player he's not confident will elevate the culture and a three to four year player who's more of a project but has longer term upside, I think he takes the latter every time, at least for these first few years.
When asked how he felt about Marquette being picked to finish ninth in the Big East, Tyler Kolek only had two words:
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"F**k 'em."

pbiflyer

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #127 on: September 08, 2022, 12:31:48 PM »
Man, if I were a member of Norman's family, I would be so excited for him reading through this thread.

tower912

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #128 on: September 08, 2022, 12:44:18 PM »
I am excited to have Tre at MU.   I love versatile guards with size and winning attitudes
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Herman Cain

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #129 on: September 08, 2022, 12:56:05 PM »
Instagram video of his announcement and other pics/videos.... hopefully the link works. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CiL5ExDDgZi/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Love Tre. Not only can he ball, and any kid who is repping Playboy Apparel at their Commitment Party is someone we want in our organization.
Vote for Pedro

duanewade

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #130 on: September 08, 2022, 03:44:31 PM »

muwarrior69

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #131 on: September 08, 2022, 06:58:06 PM »
Ivy League schools don't offer athletic scholarships

...but do they lose their eligibility when they play for an IVY since they are not on scholarship.

Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #132 on: September 08, 2022, 07:03:05 PM »
...but do they lose their eligibility when they play for an IVY since they are not on scholarship.


No. Eligibility and receiving a scholarship aren't really linked. Walk-ons lose eligibility if they play during the year.
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MU82

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #133 on: September 08, 2022, 07:04:08 PM »
Man, if I were a member of Norman's family, I would be so excited for him reading through this thread.

Caveat emptor.
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We R Final Four

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #134 on: September 08, 2022, 07:08:39 PM »
Man, if I were a member of Norman's family, I would be so excited for him reading through this thread.
Indeed. Great representation on here.
Or Shaka for that matter…..some on here think he was being disingenuous and a fraud the second Tre signed…..and he’s got pink slips for players before the season starts.
SMH

Daniel

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #135 on: September 08, 2022, 07:18:24 PM »
Very happy Tre is coming to Marquette!   I leave the basketball business to Shaka and staff who probably know more than we do :)

NickelDimer

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #136 on: September 08, 2022, 07:35:36 PM »
Are they doing NILs? Curious
I know some Cornell wrestlers who have deals
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brewcity77

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #137 on: September 08, 2022, 07:59:49 PM »
Very happy Tre is coming to Marquette!   I leave the basketball business to Shaka and staff who probably know more than we do :)

I think you underestimate the average Scooper's opinion of themself.
When asked how he felt about Marquette being picked to finish ninth in the Big East, Tyler Kolek only had two words:
.
"F**k 'em."

jfp61

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #138 on: September 08, 2022, 08:23:37 PM »
I think you underestimate the average Scooper's opinion of themself.

The collective Scooper hive mind could out coach Coach K the last 3 years of his career.

GoldenEagles03

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #139 on: September 09, 2022, 12:50:45 PM »
I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this is doubled up, but I believe I saw something from AE that mentioned they don't actually have room for Norman at this point in time.

Somebody or somebodies are going to have to be on the way out.
VIOLENCE!

GoldenEagles03

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #140 on: September 09, 2022, 12:53:33 PM »
I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this is doubled up, but I believe I saw something from AE that mentioned they don't actually have room for Norman at this point in time.

Somebody or somebodies are going to have to be on the way out.

I would hate to be the guards that have to go up against Mitchell, Ross, Norman, Lowery, and Jones.  They are going to wear guys out defensively. I love that we are getting back to this roster structure.

VIOLENCE!

Its DJOver

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #141 on: September 09, 2022, 12:56:55 PM »
I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this is doubled up, but I believe I saw something from AE that mentioned they don't actually have room for Norman at this point in time.

Somebody or somebodies are going to have to be on the way out.

Correct, one over as things currently stand in 23-24.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #142 on: September 09, 2022, 01:29:40 PM »
I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this is doubled up, but I believe I saw something from AE that mentioned they don't actually have room for Norman at this point in time.

Somebody or somebodies are going to have to be on the way out.

I don’t think that’s accurate
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JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #143 on: September 30, 2022, 04:42:36 PM »
I don’t think that’s accurate

Been a bit tuned out but found this thread to ask this exact question. According to the scholarship table, we have 14 for next year. Not exactly sure how or if any remnants of covid rules impact scholarship count but thought you could only have 13?
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #144 on: September 30, 2022, 05:07:19 PM »
Been a bit tuned out but found this thread to ask this exact question. According to the scholarship table, we have 14 for next year. Not exactly sure how or if any remnants of covid rules impact scholarship count but thought you could only have 13?

Correct.  Someone will probably be leaving either for pros or for greener pastures.  May have even told coach early this year that this would be their last year.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #145 on: September 30, 2022, 06:07:56 PM »
My understanding is that if a scholarship player were to be cut but wanted to stay at Marquette, arrangements would be made so that their tuition would be covered. Most basketball players good enough to get a scholarship at Marquette would rather transfer somewhere where they will get minutes.

Only if they leave due to medical retirement or a coaching change. Otherwise, they count against the scholarship limits.
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Jay Bee

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Re: Norman Commits
« Reply #146 on: October 03, 2022, 10:48:51 AM »
Are they doing NILs? Curious

No schools do NILs, aina? They do decide if they wish to permit their student-athletes to engage in NIL activity.

Ivy League did adjust their existing rules last summer so that SA’s v could do NIL activities.